Detroit Cops Robbing Motorists at Gunpoint.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Urantia1111

I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but we have been living in a police state for some time now. I think it started when tasers were developed... not real sure about that though.

edit on 7/30/2013 by TheRedneck because: (no reason given)

Yes we have been. Something happened around 1995-1996.. I recall the discussions back in 94 we had about tasers. My Unit had 2 SNCO's that were reserve CHP. we would discuss the implementation and all agreed that while the "non-lethal" reasons were listed.
1, save a drunk guy from getting shot
2. save a PCP'd guy from getting shot

3. AND. that taser would never be used as a "cattle prod"... this we all knew was BS, and within no time at all prodding would become EXACTLY what they are used for.!

Desperate situations require desperate measurements. Not that I approve this just it seems that everyone is trying to survive in this chaos that is going on right now and they do not choose tools and ways on how to do that.

reply to post by HanzHenry

IMO, as an observer and not an actual participant, tasers were a good idea with extremely poor implementation. Touted as "non-lethal," they became an easy way to shoot someone without the penalties of shooting someone.

Almost anyone forced to pull the trigger and watch another human being crumple to the ground dying will experience some sort of remorse, even if they had no choice but to shoot. It's not something a reasonable person will do without being forced into the situation. Tasers offered all the advantages of shooting a suspect - neutralization, lack of combativeness, ease of apprehension - without the scrutiny and psychological effects of killing them.

No one thought at the time (or at least no one with the power to do anything about it) about the variable effects of shooting 50kV of electrical energy into a human body that is designed to operate on milli-volts.

Had tasers been implemented under the mentality that they are only to be used where otherwise a bullet would be required, I would today be hailing the taser as one of the greatest law enforcement tools ever created. But no... they became used far far too often as a convenience rather than as a non-lethal alternative to guns. And this increase in power over another citizen, this ability to inflict serious pain and anguish, even death to those poor souls unable to handle the current designed to incapacitate a healthy human being, led to an arrogance we now see developing across the country. In the mind of the average police officer, his condition has gone from "I am the law, and I have the right to detain you if you break the law" to "I am the law and therefore your superior and will do to you as I see fit."

Understand I speak not of all police officers. Some are very capable and compassionate individuals who do an extremely tough job under extremely tough circumstances. These I respect greatly. I speak of the growing number of police who no longer see their responsibility as being to the people they supposedly "serve and protect." but rather see their responsibility to themselves and their coworkers. I speak of cowards with badges. This group has always existed in law enforcement, but they once were so outnumbered by the former group that they were essentially unable to rise in rank and limited in the damage they could get away with.

I really believe those I speak of do not even realize what they are doing. I really believe they see their actions as appropriate and reasonable. This is not a case of bad people doing bad things, but simply of normal people allowing themselves to unwittingly be drawn into a circle of evil.

The German Gestapo held the same attitudes I speak of; the difference was that at the core of the Gestapo there existed a central agenda that focused the attitude toward a political agenda. We do not have that central focus today, but the present conditions are ripe for one to spring into being. That is the danger that confronts us today.

I mentioned earlier that with increased authority comes increased responsibility. That is true, and something I have stated many times on this board since I first joined ATS. It is also something that has been, at various times, denied vehemently, dismissed as impractical, scoffed at, and everything in between. As a society we have failed to learn from history that one simple lesson, and true to form, history will repeat the lesson until we do learn it.

And it has always been a seriously sucky class.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


I agree that taser (ab)use is part of the problem. They are potentially deadly and should only be used when the alternative is clearly deadly force (ie firearm) not as a substitute for police training to disarm an elderly person with a steak knife, etc. The other problem is a culture of hiring bullies (and that behavior is exacerbated by many on the force taking steroids). Remember the video of the large prison guard (albeit not a cop on the beat) who cold cocked the little inmate as he passed him walking by and then tried to say that the inmate attacked him (all the while caught on CCTV)?

reply to post by CosmicCitizen

No, I don't remember that one.... but I don't doubt it.

I worked for two years at the local college as a math/physics tutor while I got my AS. This college has a rapidly growing Criminal Justice program, and as some math is required in every degree, I got to meet quite a few of the students in all of the degree fields, including Criminal Justice.

I cannot count how many times I heard a CJ major say "I get to carry a gun" or "I get to shoot people" while I was there. Even more frequent was "I want to ride in a cop car and get paid for it" or "Hey, it's an easier program than anything else and I don't want to spend all my time studying." One CJ major even tried to pay me to finish his math lab work for him... to the tune of a few hundred bucks (for what would have taken me maybe 2 hours). Of course, I wouldn't do it.

The hardest people to teach math to were the CJ majors. They were the ones who either just couldn't get it, or who didn't want to get it. Remember as well, we're talking about remedial math courses that often didn't even count toward a degree, but were required in order to take the math courses that did count. These are courses that should have been taken and passed in high school. Before I left, I was hearing other groups laughing at the CJ majors, as they had, as a group, established themselves as being the least intelligent and least motivated group on campus.

These are our future cops. These are the people who want to uphold our laws and be given the authority to act as the law.

I'm stopping now. This post is scaring a redneck.

TheRedneck

If you follow the advice of the police and do not stop but drive to the nearest police station guess what, guess what, go on guess guess. WRONG. The cop will as soon as you try to proceed after he said stop ram you off the road, then shoot you - no not shoot massacred. Then he will taze you and cry foul. He will be investigated found not guilty get a promotion and asked to one a week train new cops how to deal with civilians.

[snip]

reply to post by Xcathdra

YOur post was a starting point for my remarks....so , no I agree you made no mention of random acts.

Many here seem to be wondering what they would do if stopped by fake cops or stopped under suspicious reasons.
Many good recommendations and ideas.

However, I have a real problem with the vigilante justice these cops decided to mete out.
Could we citizens do this? Hell, no...we'd get arrested AND charged.

And, just for the record...isn't OJ Simpson in jail for trying to get HIS stuff back

This is a breach of the public trust....and we don't even get to know their names
A slap in the face of the justice system.
A betrayal of citizens who pay their salaries.
And considering the average pay for this Sergeant....well, hell...we should be outraged.....$87,320 a year!!!!!

reply to post by Stealthwatch

Funny (not really) how you mentioned shoot before tasering....as that is exactly what happened to that teenager alone (with a knife?) on a streetcar in Canada. You can hear the first 3 shots then a pause and then another 6 shots which probably killed him and then you can hear the taser deployed (presumably to say that they tasered him first but he continued his "knife attack" and they had no recourse but to use deadly force rather than to keep the corpse from getting up again).

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

YOur post was a starting point for my remarks....so , no I agree you made no mention of random acts.

Many here seem to be wondering what they would do if stopped by fake cops or stopped under suspicious reasons.
Many good recommendations and ideas.

However, I have a real problem with the vigilante justice these cops decided to mete out.
Could we citizens do this? Hell, no...we'd get arrested AND charged.

And, just for the record...isn't OJ Simpson in jail for trying to get HIS stuff back

This is a breach of the public trust....and we don't even get to know their names

A slap in the face of the justice system.
A betrayal of citizens who pay their salaries.
And considering the average pay for this Sergeant....well, hell...we should be outraged.....$87,320 a year!!!!!

Redcoats and badges are one in the same.

PERPETUATING and PROFITING from a broken (admittedly corrupt) system takes someone WITHOUT HONOR OR INTEGRITY..

bogus revenue tickets,
checkpoints, checkpoints! ...bloody CHECKPOINTS..
bankster foreclosure evictions to profit the elites,
FOR PROFIT PRISONS..

NONE with honor or integrity would participate in ANY OF THAT!! much less ALL OF IT!!

if the americans who founded this country were alive today... then every cop who participated in unconstitutional checkpoints would be AT THE TOP OF THE LIST to be hung!... rightfully so!

Well at least in this case there seems to be no cover up, once the police got the Fox news picture, they acted on it after recognising the boyo. The advice given was good too, ring 911 if you're in your car, get pulled over and you think your pull-in was suspicious. It also means that the police themselves, will need to be diligent in the way they handle traffic stops from now on.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by HanzHenry


Had tasers been implemented under the mentality that they are only to be used where otherwise a bullet would be required, I would today be hailing the taser as one of the greatest law enforcement tools ever created. But no... they became used far far too often as a convenience rather than as a non-lethal alternative to guns. And this increase in power over another citizen, this ability to inflict serious pain and anguish, even death to those poor souls unable to handle the current designed to incapacitate a healthy human being, led to an arrogance we now see developing across the country. In the mind of the average police officer, his condition has gone from "I am the law, and I have the right to detain you if you break the law" to "I am the law and therefore your superior and will do to you as I see fit."



I mentioned earlier that with increased authority comes increased responsibility. That is true, and something I have stated many times on this board since I first joined ATS. It is also something that has been, at various times, denied vehemently, dismissed as impractical, scoffed at, and everything in between. As a society we have failed to learn from history that one simple lesson, and true to form, history will repeat the lesson until we do learn it.



TheRedneck

Paragraph 1. They did the same with rubber bullets here, devising ways to seriously injure people, and I mean seriously, and some died. One method was to bounce the bullet off the ground and turn it into a haymaker, that would rip your face of, if it did connect. They bastardized the machine that was intended to be non-lethal.

Paragraph 2. That responsibility is real but as you say, instead it becomes 'copland' and the rest.
At least this time the culprit is now languishing in gaol, by virtue of his colleagues, unless of course, they knew that Fox knew who he was, but that's not stated.

reply to post by smurfy

Actually, unless there has been an update I missed, the cop(s) who did this was released after 48 hours while the DA tried to decide if he was going to be prosecuted or not.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by CosmicCitizen

No, I don't remember that one.... but I don't doubt it.

I worked for two years at the local college as a math/physics tutor while I got my AS. This college has a rapidly growing Criminal Justice program, and as some math is required in every degree, I got to meet quite a few of the students in all of the degree fields, including Criminal Justice.

I cannot count how many times I heard a CJ major say "I get to carry a gun" or "I get to shoot people" while I was there. Even more frequent was "I want to ride in a cop car and get paid for it" or "Hey, it's an easier program than anything else and I don't want to spend all my time studying." One CJ major even tried to pay me to finish his math lab work for him... to the tune of a few hundred bucks (for what would have taken me maybe 2 hours). Of course, I wouldn't do it.

The hardest people to teach math to were the CJ majors. They were the ones who either just couldn't get it, or who didn't want to get it. Remember as well, we're talking about remedial math courses that often didn't even count toward a degree, but were required in order to take the math courses that did count. These are courses that should have been taken and passed in high school. Before I left, I was hearing other groups laughing at the CJ majors, as they had, as a group, established themselves as being the least intelligent and least motivated group on campus.

These are our future cops. These are the people who want to uphold our laws and be given the authority to act as the law.

I'm stopping now. This post is scaring a redneck.

TheRedneck

I work at a community college now and it's exactly the same, it's a failing college with few programs doing well, CJ is one of the few that's expanding. The criminal justice students are well known for not doing their work, bullying others, and pretty much acting like thugs. They also expect others to show them respect because they're going to be cops. Many happen to come from military backgrounds as well which gives them an attitude that they can take on anything or anyone and win, which happens to cause quite a few problems when force is their defacto response to anything.

This is bad,..very bad...and an indication of how deteriorated things are. I understand that it can take up to one our before an ambulance will arrive at a place where someone cried for help and that you are lucky a cop will come in any situation. These numbers are an invitation for complete collaps and a free for all.

Corruption has always been among cops and in the spot Detroit is in bad cops will become worse. The leaders of the Detroit city should warn corrupt cops that serious measures will be taken against them when caught on the job....or off duty for that matter. I hope that this crumble of cities will not spread as a cancer through out the USA.

I hope that what is happening to Detroit is not by design and a prelude to a nation wide marshall law.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by smurfy

Actually, unless there has been an update I missed, the cop(s) who did this was released after 48 hours while the DA tried to decide if he was going to be prosecuted or not.

TheRedneck

There is one today, but it only partial with one sergeant's picture at the scene, (the picture). However they were off duty at the time although fully dressed and armed, that statement on video.

www.myfoxdetroit.com...

reply to post by Aazadan

Since most of them at my college were struggling to pass math, and since I was the math tutor in most of their classes (and since I'm an old redneck that doesn't get intimidated by anyone) I had a running joke: I help you now, when you get to be a cop you don't get to arrest me.

I didn't see any bullying at my school... but it might have been going on behind my back.

The crazy thing is, that guy who tried to pay me to finish his math? He was too old to get a job as a cop, so he got one in security. He is making minimum wage. I found out at graduation.

Apparently the market is getting so flooded that the degree is almost worthless. See? The free market works.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by CosmicCitizen

 

Ho-ly crap.

Are you kidding me???

They were originally thought to be citizens posing as fake cops. Turns out they were REAL cops!?

I wonder how often this happens.

Probably more than we know.

edit on 30-7-2013 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)

In Mexico this happens all the time if you don't bribe them they rob you.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by CosmicCitizen

 

It is worse in Detroit than I thought.
The cops are actually robbing people.

So much for 'Law and Order', eh?

This is nothing new nor something only occurring in Detroit, This happens all the time all over the place. It might not be your money it could be for sex if your a woman.
This is just the crappie News station jump on Detroit while it's down.

If this seems like news to you, but no offence it shows what a sheltered life you live.
Cops are just like the general public you have your good ones and your bad ones.
Some of them are so corrupt it's a joke, like the Sheriff dept. which one I prefer to not mention which one but more than one, but much like the Mafia.
One Sheriff told me he was the biggest crook I had ever seen, that's all I will say, except we were at pig farm/ slaughter house when he told me.

Serpico NY, 70s Result's of Study,10% Good,10% Bad, 80% go either way, so there you go.

reply to post by TheRedneck

Here is the video (Chicago Juvenile Corrections facility guard sucker punches inmate in the face):
www.youtube.com...
The cop looks like a 'roid head and the inmate looks like a teenager.

Originally posted by HanzHenry
Redcoats and badges are one in the same.

Actually they are not since not all red coats or badges act in the same manner. That comparison is like saying all people are alcoholics and drive drunk simply by purchasing the alcohol.

Originally posted by HanzHenry
PERPETUATING and PROFITING from a broken (admittedly corrupt) system takes someone WITHOUT HONOR OR INTEGRITY..

The Police don't generate the revenue and in almost all states only a certain percentage of fines comes back to the police agency, and only then when its allocated by the city / county / state government.

As for the corruption/ profiting comment I have a simple solution -

Get involved in government, get elected and then change the law.
Get involved in Government as a citizen and hold your elected officials accountable by voting and letting them know how you stand on an issue.

As I stated in another thread - Simply complaining about something does not fix it.

Originally posted by HanzHenry
bogus revenue tickets,

Tickets don't generate revenue - The courts do when a person is found guilty and a fine imposed.

Originally posted by HanzHenry
checkpoints, checkpoints! ...bloody CHECKPOINTS..

Lawful per the US Supreme Court as well as State Courts - If and ONLY if they follow established laws for conducting them. If you don't think lawyers go through those to ensure compliance you would be mistaken.

Originally posted by HanzHenry
bankster foreclosure evictions to profit the elites,

In almost all states Municipal Police are prohibited from civil enforcement. That function is reserved to the County Sheriff, who are elected by the people.

Secondly there are documented cases where Sheriffs have refused to enforce evictions / foreclosures.

Originally posted by HanzHenry
FOR PROFIT PRISONS..

Its a proven fact private business runs more efficiently than government entities. Secondly couldn't an argument be made that maybe people should not break the law?

Originally posted by HanzHenry
NONE with honor or integrity would participate in ANY OF THAT!! much less ALL OF IT!!

Again contrary to your blanket assumptions the bulk of law enforcement are good people, respect individuals rights and act in a professional manner and serve with Honor and Integrity.

A person with integrity and honor woul know that difference and would be more articulate instead of blanket statements with nothing to back them up.

Originally posted by HanzHenry
if the americans who founded this country were alive today... then every cop who participated in unconstitutional checkpoints would be AT THE TOP OF THE LIST to be hung!... rightfully so!

Please show me where checkpoints are -
A - In the Constitution - either State or Federal.
B - Unconstitutional
C - Illegal

As far as the be hung comment goes - You do realize our founding fathers participated in illegal actions against the crown right and that the Crown wanted to hang them.