It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Michael Hastings – “Foul Play Or Not” – Do you have a plausible theory?

page: 16
19
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 07:25 PM
link   
reply to post by heavenlyalchemy
 


Well, since you posted that block of information to the thread you get credit for it. It has absolutely nothing to do with comprehension. In addition, if you look around you will see that no one wants to be persuaded to believe anything but murder. You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink.

As far as discredit by bias goes, that is certainly the first time I have heard that. Which bias do you speak of?

From the beginning I have been clear that I do not in any way believe it was murder. There is just nothing to support that claim at all. There is allot of speculation, but no real facts to support it. Is that the bias you speak of?
If it is, then tell me how that discredits him?

I have personally been working on this thing from the beginning. I worked more than 2 weeks putting a thread together to show what facts, I had at the time, to show why I didn’t believe it was murder that doesn’t count the nearly 4 days I spent reading that almost 400 page Mercedes C250 manual. I have spent many countless hours researching information. Wan is the Only other ATS Member who has probably spent more time on this than me. In "OUR" case, we are working it from both sides of the fence. I have relied on him to see what I couldn't and convey it here in these forums, just as I am sure that I have been able to provide him with information on some things that he didn't know. It may seem ugly sometimes but we are in fact on the same team.

As I have said before I am willing to accept the outcome of "Foul Play" just as soon as there are Facts and Evidence to substantiate the claim. At this point in the game there are no such facts. Believe me I have spent weeks looking for anything that would lead in that direction.

If you are able to obtain such facts, please by all means, post them here and I will entertain them as I have any other piece of information on this subject.

By the way, .. Which qualifying documents are you looking for?

While you are checking documents make sure you stop by those other threads where everyone is claiming he was murdered just because he sent an email and was driving fast.

In the end I hope that you are not too badly pi$$ed. Eventually we will get through this thing. Hopefully with the most desirable outcome for all who are concerned.




posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 07:31 PM
link   
reply to post by WanDash
 


Wan,

I wanted to add that as of today I do not believe that the Police Report has been released yet.

What we have so far is the Coroner;s Report, Autopsy, and the Toxicology.

When the Police Report is released will will know specific details.

Unless you have found it already, but, I haven;'t seen it yet.



posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 10:27 PM
link   
reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum
 

It is frustrating.
Don't know why.
Don't know why we (I) align with a view...then want to fight others over our particular views...
But we do.

I find myself constantly biting my tongue...on both sides of the argument...still knowing that if I say the first thing that comes to mind - I will have become the same someone that I would have counted worth biting.

I've said things I wish I hadn't said...to other participants in the discussions.
Said things I wish I hadn't said to those that bear a different view.
Lofted myself above others...when I've been a constant source of misinformation, miscalculation and exaggeration -- just because...I want to be right.

When the truth is - a man, who appeared to care deeply about many of the same things that concern me...and who was willing to speak-up (while others piped-down) in the face of severe opposition...has been quieted.

Whether his quieting was the result of others' acts...or of his own misadventures...remains a mystery to me.

I would like the end to find him exonerated of the numerous black marks laid against his memorial.

I would also, however, like to know that WE -- being those concerned with finding the truth -- are as interested in each other's welfare/s...as we are in "our view winning".

Pipe Dream?
Maybe.
But I do see a maturity (or, at the least, a potential) in those that have participated in this discussion (and some that have preceded - and some in tangent) that gives me hope that we have more in common than the desire to be proved right (or prove someone-else wrong).

On another hand...I have tried to keep my "inclination"...and views aligned with that "inclination"...as much "out" of the discussion, as possible, heretofore...
But, there is an "urge" or "surge" that has been building and brewing for a while...that may spew forth some time shortly...
And
...I just want to prepare you to "look away", if you're susceptible to being offended by an opposing view (which would still be Foul Play, at this point).

Sincere thanks, again - for all your willingness to work this out!



posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 11:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by heavenlyalchemy
 


Well, since you posted that block of information to the thread you get credit for it. It has absolutely nothing to do with comprehension. In addition, if you look around you will see that no one wants to be persuaded to believe anything but murder. You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink.

As far as discredit by bias goes, that is certainly the first time I have heard that. Which bias do you speak of?

From the beginning I have been clear that I do not in any way believe it was murder. There is just nothing to support that claim at all. There is allot of speculation, but no real facts to support it. Is that the bias you speak of?
If it is, then tell me how that discredits him?

I have personally been working on this thing from the beginning. I worked more than 2 weeks putting a thread together to show what facts, I had at the time, to show why I didn’t believe it was murder that doesn’t count the nearly 4 days I spent reading that almost 400 page Mercedes C250 manual. I have spent many countless hours researching information. Wan is the Only other ATS Member who has probably spent more time on this than me. In "OUR" case, we are working it from both sides of the fence. I have relied on him to see what I couldn't and convey it here in these forums, just as I am sure that I have been able to provide him with information on some things that he didn't know. It may seem ugly sometimes but we are in fact on the same team.

As I have said before I am willing to accept the outcome of "Foul Play" just as soon as there are Facts and Evidence to substantiate the claim. At this point in the game there are no such facts. Believe me I have spent weeks looking for anything that would lead in that direction.

If you are able to obtain such facts, please by all means, post them here and I will entertain them as I have any other piece of information on this subject.

By the way, .. Which qualifying documents are you looking for?

While you are checking documents make sure you stop by those other threads where everyone is claiming he was murdered just because he sent an email and was driving fast.

In the end I hope that you are not too badly pi$$ed. Eventually we will get through this thing. Hopefully with the most desirable outcome for all who are concerned.


Duly noted, I should have quoted it, I'm still trying to figure out this place. Though that is no excuse. I'm not angry at all, I fully respect you, I just want the facts & truth.

I do see what you are saying about people wanting to point at murder, so it could feel as though it is you against the world on this issue. Which is never enjoyable, it can cause one to over state things and try to make sure this point of view is heard and considered as well.

Everyone comes from different experiences and has different ways of viewing things. If you have 5 people in a room and something happens, when you ask the people separately about their experience every answer will be different.

One thing I think that could be a problem is thinking no one else has been looking into this heavily, that they are just coming up with their views from one or two things.

Hunter S Thomson is a hero of mine, as would be anyone else with the strength of character to, even in the face of possible danger, live in integrity, research to find the truth and if they see wrong doing opening as many eyes to that wrong doing as possible.

In that I really respect Michael Hastings, though conflicted on his McChrystal report. On the one hand here is this guy going full Gonzo, sharing truth and living in integrity, on the other hand we are at war and we shouldn't show any cracks to the other side. Being a Humanitarian Constitutional Freedomist, being raised in a family with one parent on either side of the fence makes fence sitting a specialty.

We all have biases, we have our views. It isn't a bad thing, it just is. In the above from what was said your bias is that it was an accident and from looking at actions in the threads nothing is going to change that. Instead of trying to come to a conclusion and looking fully at everything there is just debate. With discrediting of anything else without fulling researching it.

You have shared so much fantastic information and many things to look into, believe me that has caused days of research. thank you for that. And yes I have been researching this from the beginning as well. Asking experts questions that have come up,

I have slept 4 hours the past two days researching the coroner's report.

I ask questions and share information I've come across instead of debating, it does not mean I don't know what is going on. It means I am trying to gather more information from "both sides of the fence".

Now there is new information on the questionable reputation of he corner and a family member balking at the "oficial" story: whowhatwhy.com...
edit on 24-8-2013 by heavenlyalchemy because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-8-2013 by heavenlyalchemy because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-8-2013 by heavenlyalchemy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2013 @ 12:26 AM
link   
reply to post by WanDash
 


I always admire what you say Wan. I respect your character and you have a pretty damn good demeanor too if I might add.

We may not agree on which scenario is true, but I think we have maintained a certain level of professionalism and civility towards one another. I do personally believe there is a difference between someone who is pointing the finger and someone who wants to know Why the finger is being pointed. I think that in itself says something of objectivity and working towards something.

Like you, I have found myself trying to bite my tongue when reading some of these threads. For me it is fairly hard but I have been trying like hell to turn over a new leaf these passed couple of months. I have made remarks that were uncalled for and do regret a few things I have said. Though I can’t go back and fix it I always try to move in a progressive direction.

There are a lot of smart people that post here on ATS and it bothers me that the largest majority automatically thinks that this was murdered based on some suspicious circumstances. They have nothing to back it up. Then when you show them some evidence to the contrary they attack the evidence. My point is that they have already decided the outcome without even taking the time to research what evidence there is. IF Everyone came to a thread and contributed at least 1 item of information, I would damn near bet that all of those heads coming together could find proof of “Foul Play”.

What do I want and Why am I Here. .. ?

I want this to Not be murder in the most sincere way. It makes the heart ache to think that the world is so damn vicious that it would murder those who seek the truth. I think that is why I look so hard at all of what evidence is available. I am dreading the day that some real evidence may appear and provide undeniable proof. I do not look forward to that at all, but will accept it if that is the case.



P.S .. . Don’t worry about offending as I have Broad Shoulders.



posted on Aug, 24 2013 @ 04:12 PM
link   
The coroner’s report is broadcast…and the immediate wave of reasoning blaring through the media is…

“…plain as day – he fell off the wagon, got hooked on drugs again – developed paranoid delusions – bolted (or – got exceptionally high and proceeded to drive) in a high-speed race through Hollywood – and died after losing control of his vehicle…into a palm tree. Nothing more to see here, folks – just move along and return to business as usual ---- Bad Things Happen.”

Oddly – however – if we simply look at the coroner’s report and toxicology results…and even accept the “official findings” thereof…we’re left with a much-less-rounded story.
We have:
1. High speed
2. Loss of control (minor?) after Melrose
3. Correction toward the grassy knoll – I mean – median
4. Travel on median
5. Traumatic blunt force injuries resulting from high speed impact causing death
6. Traces of amphetamine and ‘marijuana’ in his blood work – but not in quantities that would suggest or surmise that said chemicals contributed to the death or the activities leading to death

Since nothing in the above, in any way speaks to the obvious question/s of “why?”…a back story is included…

Said “back story” is provided by the coroner, derived from interviews conducted by the LAPD (et al).

This “back story” was not “incidentally” mentioned…but rather…on the very first page of the “report”, under “SYNOPSIS”, a good 2/5 of said synopsis was devoted to mention that he was reported to have “been smoking marijuana the night before”, and “also believed as using ‘___’”…with further statements that “family had just arrived…attempting to get decedent to go to rehab.”

In this “back story” – we have an unnamed brother of the deceased claiming to have been in L.A. to persuade Michael Hastings into rehab…with another brother scheduled to arrive in L.A. later on the day of the accident.

We have notes in the coroner’s report that say the brother who was already in L.A. believed that Michael had started using drugs again (after a believed-to-be 14-year ride on the wagon), and that, he further believed Michael’s new drug of choice to be ‘___’ …but would not be surprised if law enforcement found other drugs in Michael’s apartment…to include coc aine.

On another side of the world…we have a story of a next door neighbor…who shared a common pain with Michael Hastings – being the tragic loss of a romantic partner.
The friendship, apparently began shortly after Jordanna Thigpen’s boyfriend died in an automobile accident in April…and, developed to find Michael stopping by to chat after finishing with his days’ writing…

How involved the friendship was is unknown to us…but…according the to the Gene Maddau article (in LA Weekly)…she perceived a heightened (or heightening) tension in his conversations after the news in May, 2013…of the NSA (Feds) spying on journalists – and was hyper-concerned that they were particularly interested in him.

Of course, we know that she claims that Michael came to her apartment after midnight (which would be in the range of the same after midnight that his brother reportedly saw him passed out), asking to use her Volvo…because he was afraid to drive his own car.
She expanded on this tale, saying that “he was scared and wanted to get out of town”.

And now – thanks to heavenlyalchemy for finding it – we have a statement from WhoWhatWhy.Com bringing “another family member”’s perspective into the mix.

Via email – this family member has called the coroner’s report “irresponsible”.

True – we could jump to conclusions, here, and propose that they were simply upset at how much “back story” was included in the public document…
– But – rather – what we find is that they further called the LAPD’s investigation of the case “sloppy”, and accused the LAPD of having a predisposition toward “looking for – or finding” drugs…in his system (and elsewhere)…and when the toxicology reports did not support their LACK OF INTEGRITY…they attempted to compensate for said ineptitude/s with grand insertions of speculation (&/or innuendo) into the report.

Will the LAPD publish a report on their “investigation” into the matter?

Why would a family member…of the family that was convinced Michael Hastings was a victim of the side effects of his own substance abuse…(so much so…that “the whole family believed he needed a last resort intervention”) care if the LAPD looked any further than…in his blood, and in his apartment…for drugs?



posted on Aug, 25 2013 @ 01:21 AM
link   
reply to post by heavenlyalchemy
 


Thanks for the response.

First I want to reflect on your comment about wanting the Facts and the Truth.

In this particular case, that could damn near be construed as a contradiction in terms.

If Everyone were to go with the facts on this, then murder would have never entered the arena. In my eyes, although there are very suspicious circumstances, all of what facts are available lead to a "No Foul Play" scenario. Primarily because the evidence suggests that this was either Mechanical Failure, or Operator Error. Let us eliminate the damage that has been caused by the Coroner's Report, Autopsy, and Toxicology Report. If that information had not been introduced, the facts still point heavily to the "No Foul Play" Scenario, If we were to apply Boolean Logic to this we would find that by assigning a 1 or a 0 to each fact and using the "AND" operator we could very easily conclude that All roads to lead to anything But murder.

However, on the other hand, when you start looking at the truth you will find that, Truth is only relative to how the facts are perceived. Take your example of the 5 people who have experienced the exact same thing. All 5 have a different story based on the same experience. Does a difference in story make one instance any less truthful, or factual than the other? I think not. So, in that respect, although in there is a difference in truth, therein lies your contradiction.

I do agree with your view on Bias. I may most certainly appear to be single sided, but, I have entertained all of the information that has been presented and continue to conclude in my own mind that there has been no wrong doing. Maybe I am blinded by my personal motivations, but have still yet to see Any concrete proof that might suggest otherwise.

As I have mentioned before, if there is in fact hard evidence provided, which suggests that this was murder I would be inclined to lean my opinion to the side of the scale that is most heavily weighted.

Thanks for taking the time to research all of the information and continuing to search for new information that may shed light on to either scenario. I might also add that there are less than a dozen people here on ATS who have spent any time at all trying to add substance to this ongoing investigation we have created here in these forums. That is sad to say considering that there are literally hundreds of members who have chimed in to make statements regarding the "Foul Play" scenario with completely Fouled Logic.

You know,. .. .. In OUR country a Man is Innocent until proven guilty. In this case we see Almost Everyone saying that Someone is Guilty of Murder without even considering the facts that prove otherwise. I would definitely call that a HUGE DAMN FAIL.

Regarding your latest contribution of the WhoWhatWhy article. .. .

Does anyone else find it interesting that we have had several instances being mentioned of “Unnamed” family member in many different articles?

The unnamed state that the Coroner’s Report was irresponsible and cited that speculation was used in the report to form the conclusion to compensate for the Lack of Investigation.

I have read the Coroner’s Report many dozens of times and I Cannot find one instance of Speculation. Everything stated therein is Factual information as provided by the scene detectives and statements given by family members, which is really confusing because not one of the family members have come forward to contest the Coroner’s Report aside from and including the Unnamed Family member.

I also find it interesting that even though the “Unnamed” makes those statements in an email, they do Not clarify any specific inconsistencies.

As far as the Corner’s Credibility it is Very Important to Note this except from the LA Times article referenced in this story. . ..


Chief Medical Examiner Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran said he is not disturbed by cases in which Ribe has changed his opinion. "To me a credible witness is one who tells the truth. Ribe tells the truth," he said, calling the veteran medical examiner "an honest, top-notch forensic pathologist."

He said new evidence during a criminal investigation might lead to changes of opinion involving causes of death. "I don't want anybody to tell me not to change my mind if I have new information."


After all, if this article is to be considered you Must look at why the coroner’s testimony changed. In these cases it was because new information became available.



posted on Aug, 25 2013 @ 11:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
…If Everyone were to go with the facts on this, then murder would have never entered the arena. In my eyes, although there are very suspicious circumstances, all of what facts are available lead to a "No Foul Play" scenario. Primarily because the evidence suggests that this was either Mechanical Failure, or Operator Error…

Unfortunately, I don’t know how you, I, or anyone-else could arrive at the conclusions set forth, here.

If “the facts” you refer to are the video evidence…(Santa Monica, burning car, and security camera), I believe we can easily see an “even split” on what is suggested (by said facts).

To remove “why” from consideration also removes “Mechanical Failure &/or Operator Error” from the results.

And, all we have left, is what BobAthome proposed – Fast car, Boom, Dead.

Without knowing/considering the “motivation” for the events, there is no story.

If everyone-else did precisely what we have done…and dissected “evidence” (available) to the point of a close-approximation of the actual facts-on-hand…the drama would now be concluded (pretty much).

When you say that “the evidence suggests” this to be Mechanical or Operator Issues…you have (perhaps, subconsciously) applied a mindset to the facts…that automatically fills in holes, finishes lines and otherwise modifies “the facts” to work with your world view.

I do the same.

From birth…my world view was formed to paint “me and mine” as “righteous victims”.
It was in the cards.
We, of course, were “special” – “the chosen ones” – etc…
As long as “we/I” stayed on “God’s” good side…we would be poor, afflicted, abused, taken advantage-of…etc… And one day (after this life), “God” would flip the tables in our favor… (Sorry for the Sunday morning lesson.)
Government was “good”… People who formed Government were “evil”… (go figure)

I went many years into adulthood before recognizing this “code” that affected my perception on “everything”.
Even after identifying the “flaw”, and wrestling with it constantly, it is still one of the first things I have to contend with on any new information obtained.

All of that to say – we are all given some “code” that affects our world view/s…
Through the years I have met “very few” whose “code” wasn’t separatist in nature.
They were, in fact, some of the most pleasant people I’ve ever known. But…they were the exception/s.

I am more critical of every proposition I put forth…in defense or support of my argument…than in defense or support of the counter-argument – in attempt to offset the weighted potential of my “code-work”.

It is because of these “separatist codes” that our initial take/s on the same batch of information can go in polar-opposite directions.

We place so much value on our own special abilities (or innate giftings)…that, even in the light of more overwhelming information to the contrary…and knowing that we are now “odd man out”…we will continue to state things like – “I’m trusting my gut instinct on this… It has never let me down.”

I don’t want to argue the points you’ve made regarding the Medical Examiner…
It would just be argument for arguing’s sake…saying – “I see that information holding more or less value than you do”…

We both count many different “facts” at different values…and both of our accounting systems carry our different-but-individual world-view codes.

I think you presented your argument pretty well…
Thanks.



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 09:41 AM
link   
I have addressed some of what is found below…before…but, want to look at some of it from a different angle… Some of this, I’ve not seen mentioned or discussed, yet…
(ETA: Will be a bit before posting the addressment.)

Coroner’s Report
SYNOPSIS
…Social HX included polysubstance use, w/report decedent had been smoking marijuana the night prior. He was also believed as using '___' (Hallucinogenic). Family had just arrived from New York the day prior, attempting to get decedent to go to rehab.
INFORMANT/WITNESS STATEMENTS
…Detectives Johnson & White…
…A couple of alcohol bottles, unknown if belonged to decedent, were found strewn in the grassy area, north of the vehicle…
(A good 1/2 of the Detectives’ statements were devoted to hearsay regarding drug use, delusion/ hysteria and the (presumably) brother’s responses regarding “the family’s” suspicion and intentions (urging decedent to go to rehab).)
SCENE DESCRIPTION
(Again – notes the…) …couple of apparent empty alcohol bottles…observed in the grassy median…north of the vehicle, located ~15+ feet away or so…
EVIDENCE
None collected…
OPINION
…Toxicology shows a small amount of amphetamine in the blood consistent with possible intake of methamphetamine many hours before death, unlikely to have an intoxicative effect at the time of the accident. Marijuana was found in the blood, but mostly in the form of its metabolite, indicating intake hours earlier. ALL OTHER DRUGS WERE NEGATIVE…
Toxicology – 9156B Dimethyltryptamine Screen, Blood
Analysis by Gas Chromatography
…NONE DETECTED…

LA TIMES
…Hastings had arrived in Los Angeles from New York the day before the accident, with his brother scheduled to arrive later the day of the crash “as his family was attempting to get [Hastings] to go to detox.” (info-source attributed to the coroner’s report)
(more paraphrased outtakes from the coroner’s report…regarding the ‘believed’ episode of 14-years on the wagon…and an invincibility syndrome…)

The Wrap
…had small amounts of tetrahydrocannabinol – the active ingredient in marijuana – and methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death… (info-source – the LA coroner’s office)
…The drugs in Hastings’ system were unlikely to have contributed to…(his)…death…

LA Weekly
…Interviews with friends as well as the coroner’s report suggest that Hastings’ mental health was deteriorating. As a young man, he’d abused drugs and alcohol and received a possible diagnosis of manic depression. Now, after a long period of sobriety, he had recently begun smoking pot to treat his post-traumatic stress disorder – the product of years of covering combat.
His family was concerned. In the days leading up to his death, one of his brothers visited L.A. in an attempt to get Hastings into rehab; he later told investigators he feared more serious drug use.
…His family told investigators that, at one point, he was thought to suffer from bipolar disorder, or manic depression. However, they later concluded that his behavioral issues stemmed not from a mood disorder but from misuse of Ritalin. He also seems to have been prescribed the antidepressant Prozac. (He complained that it caused nausea.)
In general, he resisted psychiatric explanations. “He didn’t understand how much of his problems were real, and how much were attributed by adults who say, ‘This is the problem with you,’” (according to Thigpen)…
(A good bit is devoted to the effects of being a combat reporter…in the trenches…)
(Purportedly…during his stint on the 2012 campaign trail…) …he had “a few days of getting completely blitzed”…with one particularly out of control evening in Las Vegas resulting in his insulting a Wall Street Journal Reporter “in the most offensive terms possible, bringing shame to my family.”
Jordanna Thigpen says that Hastings “scared himself” that night, and vowed to stop drinking. When he got to L.A., he got a medical prescription for marijuana and smoked regularly. Other friends say he continued to drink occasionally but not to excess.
…Rosenthal (his editor) said… “The NSA stuff…really rocked him a bit… I’m not a doctor, but he certainly was agitated in the last day or two of his life.”
NOTE --- The out-of-town family members were growing concerned at his behavior…over the last month or two… The brother’s suggestion that he might have begun using '___' was considered “ridiculous” by Thigpen.
…Thigpen argued that Hastings was doing nothing harder than pot… She, likewise, disputed that the amphetamine in his system came from anything-other-than Aderall…
…The afternoon after Hastings had sent the email to colleagues and friend/s…he and his brother stopped in at “Peas & Carrots International”…for about 15 minutes…where he bought two t-shirts …and, according to the store’s co-owner…seemed in high spirits.
That night, his brother told investigators, Hastings smoked marijuana and passed out around 12:30 or 1:00 a.m. …
That timeline might be slightly off…however…because Jordanna Thigpen says that at 12:30 a.m., Hastings came to her apartment and asked to borrow her car. …(again – expounding with) He was scared and wanted to get out of town.

… … … …

edit on 8/26/2013 by WanDash because: forgot



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 11:04 AM
link   
Let’s start with, what I think needs to be noted…which are…some errors.

The LA TIMES says that Michael Hastings arrived in L.A. the day before the accident…with his brother scheduled to arrive later in the day that the crash took place.
Does this present a problem? Maybe – Maybe not… They claim that the information presented was derived from the coroner’s report…and…in my mind…this suggests a glaring lack of attention to detail (unless – of course – they have some other source for the information…which would put all of the other reports…in question)

The Wrap, also claiming its source as the coroner’s report…got the marijuana-side correct…then oddly…reported that methamphetamine was in his system.

As to the coroner’s report…here are some questions that automatically bubbled to the top…

How much (if any) Kraft Macaroni & Cheese had Michael Hastings consumed in the hours, days, weeks…prior to the accident?
Is it known if he, indeed, had a weakness for this product?
If these answers are not known – Why are they not known? Is it because no-one bothered to ask friends and family? Did they inventory his cupboards and waste bin?
I would think this should have been one of the first concerns of a straightforward investigation – wouldn’t you?

Did they bother to determine if he had any prescriptive medications…prior to assuming it was a simple case of “dopers doing dopey things”?

No --- just publish the dirtiest story that could be inferred from the lack of evidence…and let his name be damned… (That’s the way it looks to me.)

No Evidence was collected from the scene of the accident…!

…Hmmmm…
Is it possible that we can go back and reconstruct the scene…now…to make any determinations that might set some of the OBVIOUS concerns of law enforcement to rest --- like --- those alcohol bottles a few feet north of the crash site?
That would, at least, trim the report a little…

Because “the family” has played so prominent a role in the story put forth by the coroner (and thus – everyone-else)…perhaps we should consider…the family.
2012 Campaign reporting… Admits that there were a few days where he “got blitzed”…and, as a result, let his mouth fly off-the-handle at a reporter for the Wall Street Journal…so much so, that he brought “shame to (his) family”.

The guy has already placed himself on the list of ‘bright & rising stars’ in the world of investigative journalism…as well as having published three well-received (some well-contested) books. Was an associate editor for Rolling Stone magazine…and carried a similar role with BuzzFeed…and his retrospective thought/s on losing his cool with another reporter was – “brought shame to his family”… ?

We see all of the stories (derived from the coroner’s report) regarding “the family’s concern”…with much of that long-distance-concern pointed in a/the direction of suspected use & abuse of drugs…
Should that be enough?

What if someone closer…who saw, spoke and interacted with him pretty regularly for his last two+ months had a different take?
She (Jordanna Thigpen) is reported to have said – “he was doing nothing harder than pot” – that the amphetamine found in his system was derived from Aderrall, and that – the brother’s suspicion that Michael’s new “drug of choice” was ‘___’...was ridiculous.

You can place any value/s you choose on this information…but, in a real world, those interacting regularly with him are more likely to give a more accurate (or – better rounded) account of his mental, emotional &/or lazy-day behavior…than family…thousands of miles away (who, one would presume, are busy living their own lives, and attending to their own problems).

I will follow this with a recap of the story, as we know (and, in some cases, suspect) it…shortly.
Thanks.

edit on 8/26/2013 by WanDash because: b for u



posted on Aug, 26 2013 @ 12:31 PM
link   
Before the recap – I would like to give some perspective… Might not be your perspective…but, it is mine… So –

He had supposedly acquired the medical marijuana subscription shortly after moving to Los Angeles in February.
I would presume that he had been “treating” himself in accord with said prescription from that time to the time of his demise.
While many (including myself) have proposed an-oft-associated paranoia with the use of said marijuana…unless he had recently acquired a much-more-potent-strain of the medicine than he had been using for the past months…it is likely that the onslaught of paranoia had long since subsided, and he would have grown accustomed-enough to its effects to have subdued his response/reaction to the chemical/s to a nominal level…by the time of the night in question.

As to the possibility of “methamphetamine” use/abuse/addiction… I would be more likely to trust the neighbor’s take on the matter. Unless he was a habitual user…who’d grown accustomed to the chemical – it would be unlikely that she (and others around) would not notice a marked difference in his behavior. And – if he was a habitual user…who was capable of handling himself in a professional manner (as evidenced in recent video-conference interviews)…why all of a sudden…the freak out?!?!

And – as to the suspected latest drug of choice – Dimethyltryptamine – I find it hard to believe that this could have had any-other-influence on the events of the night in question…than, perhaps, a psychological twist from prior use.
From all I’ve read, and interviews conducted…there doesn’t seem to be a chance-in-hell, that he ingested said substance…and got in his car…and drove.

For the sake of argument…let’s presume that the preceding statements have merit…and that the coroner’s report could be amended to reflect the same…
What’s left?
Fast car – boom – dead.

So – even in the presence of “insufficient quantities to contribute”, “no other drugs found” and “no evidence collected from the scene”…what we were fed (by the coroner’s office)…was a boat load of bloat.

– R – E – C – A – P –
Whether just after noon, or in the A.M., Michael Hastings (apparently) sent the email to associates, colleagues and friends stating that he believed the Feds were investigating him…contacting associates and close friends…and…he was onto a big story…would be going off the radat for a bit…and hoped to see them soon.

Within a couple/few hours, he and his brother went to a retail clothing store…spent about 15 minutes inside, where he purchased 2 t-shirts…and left an impression (with the store’s co-owner) of being in “high spirits”.

Sometime later that evening, his brother reported that he smoked some marijuana (presumably – prescriptive)…and had passed out by/around 12:30 – 1:00 a.m., at which point, the brother left his apartment, and went to “a neighbor’s apartment” to spend the evening.

Oddly…another neighbor reports that, at around 12:30 a.m., Michael Hastings was at her door…requesting the use of her car (Volvo)…justifying the request with a fear for/of the safety of his own car (brand new Mercedes).
She declined, stating that her car was in disrepair…

Next thing we know – at or about 4:15 a.m. – his Mercedes (*) is caught on video running a red light at Santa Monica Blvd, heading south on North Highland Avenue.
My estimation puts the speed at 60-70 mph.

According to witnesses…the Mercedes sped straight through the next intersection…and the next…and, a security camera at the Pizzeria Mozza caught the last 2 (or so) seconds of that same “trip” on video – showing no apparent attempts to slow the car down…though everything about the ride (from the first frame showing the Mercedes) had grown precarious-at-best.

- -- -- - -- --- -- - -- -- -
I will leave it there, for the moment.
Plenty to consider (for me).
Thanks.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 12:11 PM
link   
Does anything bother you about that?
It does, me…

I’ve been reading through earlier threads on this subject for a while…and have not found reference/s to give in support of this recollection…but…I do recall, early-on, the sounds emanating from the family’s general direction were – “we will find whoever did this”…
Then…there was silence…until we heard a report from a private investigator in upstate New York (Doug Hagmann) stating that he was convinced…it was murder…

One bit of information said Hagmann offered, that I’ve not seen circulated much, is that “…at least two agents, reportedly representing the FBI, contacted an associate of Michael Hastings for information related to his current and recent activities sometime between June 3 and June 7, 2013.”

If Mr. Hagmann’s statement is true/correct -?-?- while this does not prove that the FBI lied, when stating that “…Mr. Hastings was not under investigation…”, it does give more credence to his apparent “fears”…and thus subtracts from the assessment that his “fears” and demeanor were paranoia–(or – drug-inspired-paranoia)–laced delusions…alone.

Question to consider --- --- --- If you were convinced (or – extremely suspicious) that someone (government 3-Letters, or othersuch) was closing a net around you…and your family was even slightly convinced that you weren’t acting ‘the fool’…is it possible you would consider checking-in to some kind of facility that has 24-hour guards and surveillance…etc…? Might you think “this is some place I could write – access the internet for research – and feel a little safer than in the apartment”?

I don’t know… Seems like a plausible possibility.
Especially when considering…
- He had sent the email earlier in the day…
- Did not “disappear”, immediately afterward…
- Rather, spent some time in public with one brother…during which, the retail establishment’s principle was convinced that he was in “high spirits”.
With another brother (a decorated war veteran) scheduled to arrive the following day…I could imagine that being surrounded by the brothers one grew up with…might make one feel (more) secure, or at least…like he stood a fighting chance, should trouble break loose.

I included the “disappear” interpretation of “going off the radat”…to specifically deal with the next bit…

Later that evening…smokes some pot…and, at some point, apparently passes out (in his apartment). The on-site/attending brother was present to witness that he “passed out”…and placed “the time” of this observation around 12:30 – 1:00 a.m. (which would, of course, be – the following morning).

Again – as has been iterated before…a neighbor & friend witnessed that Michael’ had come to her apartment door at around 12:30 a.m. requesting the use of her car…being fearful of the safety of his own (car)…AND…that he “was scared and wanted to leave town”…

If Michael’s brother was “off” on "what time” he saw Michael’ passed out…and 12:30 a.m. is the time he showed up at the neighbor’s apartment…And…his reason for being at her apartment was the same as what she has “reported”… What can be made of the flip-flop in his demeanor & behavior…in so narrow a window of time?

Was he playing opossum…all day?
Was he planning to bolt as soon as the opportunity presented itself?
Was he really frightened/concerned about his car being tampered with?
Was he looking for a vehicle in which to escape...inconspicuously…or...to get away from his family in...?

You do realize that this behavior & request are extraordinary... (?)
...
.. ... .. ... .. ... ..
We do not know what time he got in his car & started driving.
One would think an apartment complex in Hollywood would have surveillance cameras that might spell this out…
But – again – we must deal with a crucial question…
If he was sincerely concerned (enough to impose upon his friend/neighbor at an odd hour) about the safety of his car at 12:30 a.m. --- and this naturally flows to…concerned about his own safety & well-beinghow or why would he have thrown caution to the wind, only 3 ½ hours later…driving like a bandit escaping the proverbial pits of Hades?

(That is, of course, counting the probability that a recent/new infusion of drugs into the mix cannot be blamed for the apparent 'shift'.)


Hope I have presented “the question” well enough that you get the gist…and can consider it, for whatever consideration is merited.
Thanks.

edit on 8/27/2013 by WanDash because: emphasis

edit on 8/27/2013 by WanDash because: one more clarification



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 01:35 PM
link   
Could the family have been threatened to be used as reference to where he was/what he was doing? The wife waited a while to say anything public if I remember correctly.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 01:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by matafuchs
Could the family have been threatened to be used as reference to where he was/what he was doing? The wife waited a while to say anything public if I remember correctly.

I don't know.
Doesn't seem that the FBI, NSA or CIA (if any) would have had to 'go looking' for him...as he was still in his apartment...up 'til, at least, a few hours before the final trip.
The wife came out, initially, lambasting the New York Times for their "obituary" piece.
Not a lot, that I recall, between those statements and the appearance on Piers Morgan's show, though.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 02:27 PM
link   
The part that really stands out is him asking to use someone elses car. If he was scared of his own vehicle, i can understand that but why not call for a ride? Take a cab...walk? Where did he need to get to that was so important that he needed someone elses car as he would not be noticed in his?



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 02:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by matafuchs
The part that really stands out is him asking to use someone elses car. If he was scared of his own vehicle, i can understand that but why not call for a ride? Take a cab...walk? Where did he need to get to that was so important that he needed someone elses car as he would not be noticed in his?

Agreed...
1. If scared of his own vehicle - would a 'cab' have sufficed for 'where' he wanted/needed to go? Or - did he consider that a taxi might be either too expensive (for how far he wanted to go) - or - too traceable, if, indeed, he was trying to get out of town.
2. If it was because he wanted to be unnoticed (in someone-else's car)...who was he wanting to elude?
3. If either 1 or 2...why did he choose to get in his own car...anyway?



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 03:20 PM
link   
How about fear? You are trying to get away from something and want to go unnoticed. You cannot and need to bug out. He had to take his vehicle out of fear and maybe not to lose anymore control of his situation.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 03:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by matafuchs
How about fear? You are trying to get away from something and want to go unnoticed. You cannot and need to bug out. He had to take his vehicle out of fear and maybe not to lose anymore control of his situation.

Okay - I'll "see" your fear and attempt to maintain/regain control of his situation...and...raise you a flip-flop...

Do you see it as - he was playing opossum earlier in the day...coming off as "sociable" and "in high spirits" when out and about with his brother... Having intended, all along, to "bolt" as soon as the opportunity presented itself?
Or - are you thinking the "flip-flop" took place in a more spur of the moment evolution (near-or-about midnight)?



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 09:45 PM
link   
reply to post by WanDash
 

Wan,

It has been a couple of days since my last response. I have recently connected with my brother I haven't seen in 13 years so my time here on ATS has been limited and hasn't provided me enough time, until now, to give a response that this issue deserves.

So anyways, .. . .. .

When was the last time you left town on something that was hastily decided, or planned for that matter, . . and Didn't Pack a Bag? .. I think, If he had anything packed as far as clothing or anything, most certainly that would have been noted. If that was the case, that might very well lend a little more weight to possible 'Foul Play'.

I have read Doug Hagmann's report over many times and I can say that I am really disappointed. When he starts using words like "It appears", "I think", and "It is Speculated" does absolutely nothing for me in my mind. He is basically using an E-Mail, and other evidences that the general public has had access to, to make his determination. Also this statement, "There is also an indication that the Department of Justice possibly sought ". My problem with that is. . Michael Hastings’s could have "possibly" had Mad Cow Disease and had an episode the night he was driving. And for him to substantiate his claims based on that e-mail, says allot to me about his investigative abilities.

Personally, I have had to discount that article for obvious reasons.

About the time conflict. .. .. After putting heavy thought into it .. ..
The neighbor and the brother are Both probably right. .. .. Michael was asleep/passed out on the couch when his brother was there, however, when his brother left, he closed the door just hard enough to wake Michael up. That is when he got up and went to the neighbors house. That could reasonably explain how he was at both places at once, so to speak.

Now,. . about borrowing the car .. ..

He went to the neighbors to ask her to borrow her car because it may have been tampered with ..
Well, .. maybe it hadn't, and he was just scheming. Why? .. .. Well,. . If he had a "Habit" he may have needed to get a fix, and most assuredly he didn’t want to tell anyone he needed a fix, especially the neighbor girl whose car he wanted to borrow. Maybe, he might have thought that his brother would have noticed his car gone and come looking for him.

I am sorry to throw that in there. If they had never even mentioned the whole rehab thing it might be different. For any family member to mention it, and that other family members were convening on him for an intervention says more than words can even describe.

Let's talk about Alcohol for a second . . ... There is a bunch of G** DAMNED lying going on about that to which I am really disappointed. The FAMILY says that he has been on the wagon for 14 years. If that is the case then what is with this statement.. . "2012 Campaign reporting… Admits that there were a few days where he “got blitzed”…". If he hadn't had a drink in 14 years then where did that come from. . . ?

What we know .. . .
There was No Alcohol in his system. .. I don't care if beer bottles where found at the scene, I am certain they weren't his.
There were traces of amphetamines and THC in his system.. . . We are smart enough to know that the coroner probably called this one right when he said there was not enough to have caused this accident.

Was he driving so fast because he Didn’t want people to recognize who he was?
If so, was he up to no good?

From close to the beginning I can remember one of the brothers saying that this was just a terrible accident.
Did he Not talk to the wife? If the wife mentioned, "We will get who did this" then why was the brother in contraction?

And this statement from the neighbor.. ..
"he was doing nothing harder than pot” – that the amphetamine found in his system was derived from Aderrall,"
Doesn’t she know that Aderall is a hell of ALLOT Harder than Pot?

If he was in fear then why did he stick around? What about the family?

The neighbor also mentioned that he was concerned about helicopters flying over his house, and that they were meant for him.

Let's define Schizophrenia

A mental disorder that makes it hard to: Tell the difference between what is real and not real; Think clearly; Have normal emotional responses; Act normally in social situations.

Two other words that Never go well with that word are. .. . Paranoid and Delusional.

PTSD - Post-traumatic stress disorder is a type of anxiety disorder. It can occur after you have gone through an extreme emotional trauma that involved the threat of injury or death.

Some symptoms
Hyperarousal
•Always scanning your surroundings for signs of danger (hypervigilance)
•Not able to concentrate
•Startling easily

I don't think I answered one damn question, but rather, .. created more.

sorry.



posted on Aug, 27 2013 @ 09:52 PM
link   
While working on another bit of mumbo-jumbo…I saw that Guy Montag had updated his piece – More Lies Borne Out Of Facts, If Not The Truth…to address some of the more recent developments in this case/story…
If you care to see the most extensive devotion I’ve found on Michael Hastings around…you would be well served to check out said “piece”.

The “stand-out” info I saw in said “piece”, that I want to be sure and get to you…before I forget…was a response to The Daily Banter article downplaying the intelligence and integrity of any & all “conspiracy theories (thus theorists)” regarding the Michael Hastings tragedy.

Said article attempted to imply and…in fact, stated rather emphatically…that the apparently outlandish behavior of the Mercedes (and thus – Michael Hastings) on the fateful night, was easily, readily and convincingly explained by “methamphetamine” use and abuse.

A respondent to said statements (I’ve not found the url-for-same), offered the following:
(color & other emphasis added by yours truly – WanDash)

“I'm a bit surprised by your lack of analysis of the actual toxicology report, for someone scolding others about journalistic responsibility. If I'm reading that tox report right (it's a bit crappily scanned), the blood amphetamine levels from the chest were measured at .05 *micrograms* per mL, or 50 ng/mL, which is absurdly small.

And as far as I know, GC-MStesting distinguishes between meth and amphetamine, so it doesn't seem likely any of the "extended meth use craziness" you're suggesting is indicated by the facts, either. Chances are he just took a prescription Adderall tablet or few in the week prior.

please don't snark at others for their bending of facts to fit a narrative without bothering to do any math or research yourself. You really seem to be blithely conflating methamphetamine and amphetamine, which are very distinct in their chemistry and effects. There is no evidence whatsoever that meth or its "LONGTERM" abuse is involved; while amphetamine does not metabolize into meth, meth metabolizes only partially into amphetamine, leaving a parent drug trace distinguishable even in basic urine tests; the GC-MS listed on the tox report can certainly tell the difference and specified only amphetamine in the methamphetamine test. As the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration itself reports, after studying impaired drivers arrested for strictly methamphetamine intoxication: "Blood concentrations can generally be used to distinguish therapeutic use from abuse. Concentrations of 0.02-0.05 mg/L are typical for therapeutic use, and up to 0.2 mg/L have been documented. Concentrations greater than this represent abuse.

A little further information is also gleaned, regarding the “family member” that emailed WhoWhatWhy.com about the irresponsibility of the coroner’s report…stating:

“I can honestly say with absolute certainty that he wasn’t doing meth”…

…with the family member requesting anonymity…

Furthermore… Anyone expecting some kind of “Investigative Report” coming out of the LAPD… ? … don’t hold your breath.
(More from Mr. Montag’s piece… --- some paraphrased…)
The report?
June 19, 2013 – Investigation complete. Talked to brother. No evidence collected. 48 photos.
June 20, 2013 – Autopsy done. Waited 2 months for toxicology results.
No bomb squad investigators…
The LAPD found no evidence of hacking or tampering with the brakes/accelerator…BECAUSE THEY NEVER LOOKED!!!!!!!
The Traffic detective merely assumed from talking to the brother that Hastings was coked up and filed his report the next day after spending 2 hours on the scene, taking 48 photos… The LAPD did NOTHING for the past two months except…WAIIIITTTTT…for the toxicology report…to prove them right…that…Hastings was on the “hard stuff”.
If there was foul play…we won’t know…because the LAPD failed to even investigate the possibility!
--- -- --- --- ---- ----- --- - - -- --- - - -----
Thank you, Mr. Montag for caring enough to look further into this than many of us are able to do!

As for me – I’m sure I’ll be back.
Thanks.

(PS: If you still care about this matter...please bring others in on the information posted, here. Thanks.)
edit on 8/27/2013 by WanDash because: u for i

edit on 8/27/2013 by WanDash because: add out



new topics

top topics



 
19
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join