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Toronto Police Kill 18 Year Old Alone On Streetcar. Caught on Video. I Am Speechless.

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posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 
These things are situational, and they also depend on the law of the state or country.
Yes, police have some leeway, but if they decide that the situation warrants lethal force, they will use it. Obviously in this case multiple officers believed it was warranted, and the law will most likely support them in their decision (depending if it becomes a political issue like the Zimmerman/Martin case).

I don't believe that any police officer goes to work wanting to be involved in a shooting.




posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by Carreau
 


LOL.-... so you are leaving this thread?. BECAUSE the Teazers Arrived after minuets on the screen. BUT STILL. The Cops still used GUNSHOTS on HIM. ( so we can tell 9 shorts fired ). against a BOY who had a Knife and where not EVEN ( STEVEN ) CLOSE then what 10 FEETS of the COPS. he need first to GET OUT of the BUS where 3 COPS with GUNS stood READY TO FIRE and So they DID !


Hell, Did you even see the VIDEO finish ?????

TRY think if that was your BOY, who was upset. and had a knife on him ( not a butcher Knife !!! ) and Shot dead. I would think otherwise if there was another body in the BUS expect that body is the only one and is the BOY with a knife !!


I am against Weapons ( ITS a DK LAW Here ) but I see Some where is good to have Guns on people. Like the USA, SWISS etc etc. where there GUN allow and have to say SWISS is the best example to the whole world. to lern from them would make crime down fast.. also the US state where gun allow there is lower crime rate then the States without Guns.

GUNS can Save people. But not when they are in the Hands of COPS:..!!! sad day. fore the good cops out there. like them in the UK video with a Knife ( so where is the so called 21 feet law in the UK ?? weird huh) .



Just a little funny side note: I have been to self-defense and learn about taking a knife from a Bad guy. so why does Police not learn about that. ???

Second Why on Hell Does the police have a Stick. like 9 inch , and not take on the fight and then teach the Criminal about taking a knife to a fight,,

BUT Nooo "Shoot the knife wearing boy, that's Teach the Kids now a day....."
edit on 29-7-2013 by kadara_dk because: about selfdefence. and Police stick :X



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


I'm not even in your country, but I'll do my best to oppose that way of thinking ever becoming prevalent over here. The entire point of joining the police force is to take risks so the public doesn't have to. It isn't their job to wrap up every situation in the minimum time possible and get things back how they were... while conveniently ignoring the fact there's one less living person than there was earlier.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Caroline13456
 


To the folks saying the guy brandishing a knife in public space got what he deserved, I remind you that police are supposed to be "peace officers."

Not too long ago, drawing a service pistol was a BIG deal. It was done when lives were threatened, as a LAST RESORT.

With several officers surrounding one guy, one would think they had it under control. Why even carry billy clubs, or the much abused TASERS if bullets are first resort against hand, knife or club wielders?

The attitude of police has changed from being a part of the community they patrolled to armed occupiers. I suggest the drug war has much to do with it in that it has made a large, non violent portion of the populace perceived criminals and given the police more power, firepower and money with the mentality of an occupying force.

But no matter what the cause of the militarized police, the results are not comforting or peaceful.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


As a man of 43 I can tell you that though legally at 18 someone is an adult (Dependent of country but true here as well) that they are not actually an adult at all. Physically the body is still going through changes into adult hood and reaches it's peak variably between 19 and 27 but emotionally they are still a kid and have a hell of a lot to learn about this world usually they emotionally mature in there mid 20's to there early 30's but as with all such there is a wide raft of variation from race and cultural background to this and it is not the rule but merely the general course of aging. Some people are old in there 30's and others are in there 40's but the fact remains a young man whom could of and should have been disarmed and restrained is now dead because of two gung ho idiot hicks whom are not worthy to wear that uniform or be called police at all as they are a disgrace.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by DerekJR321
 


Listen maybe you have trouble with the concept... an order is not a "suggestion", its not a "request". Its something you HAVE to comply. To obey. Are you familiar with the concept? Well the kid with the knife apparently wasnt also.

I'm thinking most of you here have this notion that you don't have to "obey" nothing or noone. That the cops are clowns or something made to entertain your cute little strolls in the park in a sunday afternoon, after all the blue does suits well and the lights over the car do light up the mood specially when it rains. A guy armed with a knife is told to drop the knife and if it takes one step towards the officers they'll shoot him... and what does he do... he doesnt drop the knife and he walks towards the officers - and you blame the officers? Really?

How much do you want to attack the people that risk their lives everyday to ensure your safety and the safety of your loved ones and how much is your will to victimize criminals these days trying to transfer all the guilt to the wrong side of the story? How quickly you also were to absorb the "3-inch knife" crap when theres not a single mention of it anywhere but a reference given by a member that you dont even know that said "oh yes I was there, it was a knive" and you swallow it as the uncontested truth - I'm not saying it isnt, but its funny since in here you can post a video of a flying cow on roller blades and people will STILL ask for more proof, yet on these issues you absorb anything that takes the guilt out of every freakin criminal like sponges. Like the cute little thug trayvon affair... until some member posted those cute videos and tweets written by that little terrorist himself (which btw got what he deserved) but I bet theres still people who defend the little prick.

How many more thugs / criminals / potential aggressors are you going to victimize / forgive / allow to walk free / defend them before one of your sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, friends, girlfriends, husbands or wives get killed or wounded by one of these "victims" that you defend? What will you say then? Then you'll get angered?

Some of you dont even know the consequence of letting the enemy go free just because you think its "humane" or because you think its "right". Sometimes... actually most of the times we're not in Geneva (which as some of you may know is a one sided convention)

This was his fault. He brought the knife. He got the police called on him. He didnt drop the knife when ordered to do so. He walked towards the cops when told specifically that he would be shot if he took one more step. He was warned of everything, so... he brought this on him.
edit on 29-7-2013 by FraternitasSaturni because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by smurfy
Hmm, these cops sure left a lot out between dialogue and deadly force.

It doesn't work in a linear fashion, you go to the line that intersects what the suspect is now doing. So if I person goes from “verbal” to “aggravated physical” the police can jump to that level of force, they don't have to go through all the intermediate steps to that level.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Whatever happened to proportionate response? If the person holding the knife was 8 yrs old and had stepped forward when told to drop the knife, would you still be so keen to say "fire away"? What if the 18yr old had the mental age of an 8 yr old, what then? Do you think some attempt should be made to try and ascertain such things if the location of the incident is surrounded by police and there are no civilians at risk?


edit on 29-7-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-7-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by defcon5

I don't believe that any police officer goes to work wanting to be involved in a shooting.



That I can agree with.

Like I've said many times, I have respect for many LEO's. My children could have easily went to a foster home or CPS, but the Police Dept used their "discretion" and called me to pick them up, 250 miles away from where I was at. They didn't have to give me my children, based on the Laws on the books. That is leeway.



In this case though, and its strictly my opinion from what I saw, is that there could have been another decision made, other then shoot this man.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Wookiep
Gun Vs Knife? Hmmm I think this is a situation where a taser could have been utilized. That would just make too much sense, however.


The taser WAS used, but they had to shoot him to death first. Then to make sure the corpse's muscle spasms wouldn't harm the officers they handcuffed him. Common LEO operating procedures



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by Hefficide

I counted nine shots, in two clusters. It is glaringly obvious that the first cluster ( three shots ) was more than enough to deal with a knife wielding man who did not even appear to be attacking or trying to attack. The next six shots, I can only assume, were to make sure that he never got back up. I cannot imagine him being a threat after already being shot three times and put down.

IE the last six shots were murder. Plain and simple.


Do I pull knives inside public places and scare the living crap out of everyone and force everyone out of public places under knife threat? No.

Quit forgiving criminals, blatant threats to society and people that dont contribute with anything but with fear and insecurity towards law abiding innocent citizens.

That being said... I seriously doubt much was lost besides 8 extra bullets since 1 well placed should have done its job.


HURP DURP DURP CRIMINULZ ARE NOT PEAOPOLE DURP DURP MY TAX DOLLARZ SHOULD GO TWOARDZ PIGZ KILLING 18 YAR OLDZ HURP.

The guy wasn't even trying to hurt the cops. Who knows why he did what he did, but to justify killing him because of it is rather imbecilic. He was more of a threat to himself than other people.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by IvanAstikov
Whatever happened to proportionate response?

the use of force matrix is considered “proportionate response”, they are allowed to go to the next level higher to gain compliance.

So...
You're verbal, they're physical.
You're passive, they're pain compliance.
You're active, they're incapacitation.
You're aggravated, they're lethal.

They are always legally one stage ahead of what you are to give them the upper hand.


Originally posted by IvanAstikov
If the person holding the knife was 8 yrs old and had stepped forward when told to drop the knife, would you still be so keen to say "fire away"?

You'd have to be the officer in that situation. Children have killed people. I am sure that your required level of justification, and the possibility of litigation is higher with a younger person. The same thing applies to the medical field, that is why Pediatric medical personnel have such high liability.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by Caroline13456
 


This was a bit of over kill. and have should have not ended this way. the kid ordered everyone off the buss and did not harm anyone ? or was somebody hurt and then ordered everyone off? now im not going to defend this man. for pulling a knife and prob scaring the crap out of everyone on that car. When you threaten physical violence you can expect physical violence back. did he deserve what he got ? no 2 shots i could see being fired 1 a warning shot and 2nd one in the leg or a non lethal spot. If he ordered everyone off the buss at that point with a knife at that range he was only a danger to himself.

This crap has to stop. a badge should not = get out of jail free card We are a nation of laws



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Hmmm.... and here I was thinking their job was to de-escalate situations, not switch them straight up to a "Code Red Emergency/ cop's life in some level of danger - shoot to kill" level, at the ignoring of a verbal warning.


edit on 29-7-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by St0mP121


This crap has to stop. a badge should not = get out of jail free card We are a nation of laws


I say hold Police to HIGHER STANDARDS and Laws.

Might think twice about using excessive force, if there is a jail term involved.

That can only happen if Laws change. That can only happen if the people force them to be changed.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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Kill first, then use taser as needed? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?
edit on 29-7-2013 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 04:04 PM
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gamma adjusted version



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by St0mP121
no 2 shots i could see being fired 1 a warning shot and 2nd one in the leg or a non lethal spot.

I do not understand peoples feelings on this.
When you pull the trigger on a gun, an unguided bullet comes out of it, and it has to GO somewhere.
You don't need to give a warning shot, the fact that an officer is POINTING an un-holstered GUN AT YOU is enough warning.

Again, you don't endanger innocent bystanders by launching bullets into random trajectories where they can go through some child’s bedroom window while they are sleeping, or hit a bone in a leg and ricochet to hit your partner.


edit on 7/29/2013 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by Hefficide

I counted nine shots, in two clusters. It is glaringly obvious that the first cluster ( three shots ) was more than enough to deal with a knife wielding man who did not even appear to be attacking or trying to attack. The next six shots, I can only assume, were to make sure that he never got back up. I cannot imagine him being a threat after already being shot three times and put down.

IE the last six shots were murder. Plain and simple.


Do I pull knives inside public places and scare the living crap out of everyone and force everyone out of public places under knife threat? No.

Quit forgiving criminals, blatant threats to society and people that dont contribute with anything but with fear and insecurity towards law abiding innocent citizens.

That being said... I seriously doubt much was lost besides 8 extra bullets since 1 well placed should have done its job.


Then you agree this is serious over-kill? I think this is at the core of the outrage, the unnecessary over-kill....again.
America's police departments have slowly but most surely become more and more "militarized." Many large departments are comprised of a variety of undeniable psychopaths, of all stripes. It's an all-inclusive club for power-hungry, maniacs. Maniacs who can and do "legally" prey on those they consider..... well, who knows what they consider their targets.

But these robots have leaders and those leaders have leaders. You have to diligently travel upwards and outwards to discover who is responsible for the ever-hardening iron fists. They don't just arbitrarily go out and brutalize and harass citizens-- unless of course they've just had another bad day.

Someone, somewhere is orchestrating this perpetual crackdown on citizens and our mental comforts. This is by design and has a definite purpose. Not a good one, I'd guess.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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The above is an animated GIF (3.2 mb) of the person in the trolly approaching the front and entrance.

To me, and granted, the quality is optimum, it looks as though his body-language shifts as he's waking forward, he goes from arms-crossed confrontational, to dropped arms and drooped shoulders as if he figured out he better give up.

The animation ends at the first shot, pauses for a few seconds, then recycles back to the beginning, and is running at about one-third actual speed.
edit on 29-7-2013 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)



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