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Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
Originally posted by Hefficide
I counted nine shots, in two clusters. It is glaringly obvious that the first cluster ( three shots ) was more than enough to deal with a knife wielding man who did not even appear to be attacking or trying to attack. The next six shots, I can only assume, were to make sure that he never got back up. I cannot imagine him being a threat after already being shot three times and put down.
IE the last six shots were murder. Plain and simple.
Do I pull knives inside public places and scare the living crap out of everyone and force everyone out of public places under knife threat? No.
Quit forgiving criminals, blatant threats to society and people that dont contribute with anything but with fear and insecurity towards law abiding innocent citizens.
That being said... I seriously doubt much was lost besides 8 extra bullets since 1 well placed should have done its job.
Const. James Forcillo ID'd as cop in Sammy Yatim shooting 91 BY CHRIS DOUCETTE ,TORONTO SUN FIRST POSTED: TUESDAY, JULY 30, 2013 08:29 PM EDT | UPDATED: TUESDAY, JULY 30, 2013 09:01 PM EDT James Forcillo 14 Division Const. James Forcillo has been identified as the officer who fired the shots that killed Sammy Yatim. Article 1 Change text size for the storyPrint this story Report an error More Coverage Playing the race and religion card Answers needed in Yatim shooting Cop in shooting of Sammy Yatim suspended with pay Police Chief Bill Blair vows answers in TTC shooting of Sammy Yatim Sammy Yatim's final moments on shocking new video Tears, anger at rally for teen shot dead by cops on streetcar Teen shot on streetcar to cop: 'You're a f------ p---y' Topics Sammy Yatim shooting TORONTO - The governing body that oversees the city’s cops vows to do all it can to find out why an officer, identified Tuesday as Const. James Forcillo, shot and killed Sammy Yatim on a streetcar over the weekend. The 14 Division officer has yet to speak publicly, but his lawyer said he’s “devastated.” “We are waiting for the investigation to proceed,” Peter Brauti told the Toronto Sun Tuesday. “It’s important that people don’t rush to judgment because not all of the evidence is yet available.” Police Chief Bill Blair suspended Forcillo, a member of the service for six years, with pay on Monday. The Toronto Police Services Board said Tuesday members are anxiously awaiting the results of simultaneous investigations — by Ontario’s Special Investigations Unit and Blair — into the shooting that killed 18-year-old Yatim and sparked widespread public outrage after witness video was posted to YouTube. “The board assures the community that it is fully committed and determined to do everything in its power to pursue answers to the questions which are troubling us all and to ensure that appropriate action is taken as called for by the investigations,” TPSB chair Alok Mukherjee said in a statement. After offering “sincere sympathy” to Yatim’s family, he went on to say the board “recognizes the serious concerns” of “members of the community at large” in the wake of the teen’s death. “Like Mr. Yatim’s family and other Torontonians, the (TPSB) seeks to understand the tragic events that transpired (early Saturday) in order that appropriate action can follow,” Mukherjee said. He said the board believes the two investigations are of the “utmost importance” and members support the chief ’s “unequivocal commitment to do his part to obtain the answers that we are all seeking.” The SIU, which investigates any serious injury or death involving cops, is probing Forcillo’s actions and that of 22 witness officers. Blair, who has pledged to “co-operate fully” with the SIU, is required under the Police Services Act to review the policies, procedures and training related to the fatal shooting as well as the conduct of all involved coppers. The chief must report his findings to the TPSB within 30 days of the completion of the SIU’s probe. The TPSB has made it clear to Blair that his review should be “comprehensive” and include “sufficient detail to address the very serious questions” the board has regarding Yatim’s death, Mukherjee said. — With files from Sam Pazzano
Originally posted by ProphetZoroaster
Toronto cops don't carry Taser. It has to be brought to the seen by a Sgt or Supervisor. The Sgt has just arrived when the shots were fired.
What is now speculation is the bullets might not have killed him it could have been the tazor. They are know to complete stop the heart if someone has a heart condition. I would say he had a heart problem after taking 9 shots.
Remember the man who was tazor at the Vancouver airport by the RCMP. He
has a heart condition and died after being tazored.
Originally posted by elysiumfire
Speaking from experience, they should have used less-lethal munitions. I have deployed the bean bag on knife wielders several times and it is completely effective. We also have flash bangs and tear gas as an option. The TASER would be a last resort as it has a 15-21 foot reach and is highly inaccurate and ineffective if both probes do not connect for reasons such as clothing or a miss etc.
Well I anticipate the shooters either get fired or a huge suspension. They really need to train these guys before letting them loose on the streets. They make good cops look bad.
Commendable post, Mike, more for its last sentence (highlighted) than anything other that it states. If you had used the word 'tactics' rather than 'munitions', you would have heard the applause I'd have given you all the way across the thousands of miles that separate our countries.
Originally posted by Skywatcher2011
Ohio police are just as brutal....
Originally posted by ProphetZoroaster
Here's the deal.
The kid pulls a knife on a crowded bus and orders everybody off for unknown reasons. Once the police arrive he then refuses to drop the knife and finally begins to advance on them. Then he obviously was shot and killed.
Where is the tragedy in this? I can understand the outrage at amount of lethal force involved especially considering there was non-lethal force available, but we are still talking about a knife wielding man who had threatened the lives of others. A knife wielding man who refused to drop his weapon and who was warned to not take any steps forward.
Obviously the officer involved probably doesn't need to be walking a beat if this is how he reacts to stress, but the tragedy involved isn't that a young man was killed. It's that a guy trying to serve the public is going to be crucified for reacting extremely poorly in a bad situation. The tragedy is that people will rally behind a kid who apparently wanted to commit suicide by cop.edit on 30/7/2013 by ProphetZoroaster because: (no reason given)
If the department does not issue less-lethal munitions or train to handle these scenarios in a less lethal capacity then shame on them.
Does, or should the training have an emphasis on proportionate response? At what point does 'common sense' override 'training'? These are not questions I am asking you personally, I am simply thinking out aloud.
It HAS to have its emphasis on proportionate response as a priority. Threats come in all shapes and sizes and you shouldn't be able to respond to a "threat" from a child acting up with a blade the same way you'd respond to a 260lb power lifter who is also known to have a hatred of cops.
Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by Rocker2013
I stand corrected, a knife wielding man threatening people is never responsible for actions.