Pope Francis on Gays "Who Am I To Judge?'

reply to post by FlyersFan



Just throwing this in...

Gay marriage in the year 100 AD

Gay marriage sounds like an ultra-contemporary idea. But almost twenty years ago, a Catholic scholar at Yale shocked the world by publishing a book packed with evidence that same-sex marriages were sanctioned by the early Christian Church during an era commonly called the Dark Ages.

reply to post by Phoenix267

I noticed a lot of people like Pope Francis better because of his progressive views and nicer ways of making people feel acceptable. A lot of people hated Pope Benedict XVI because of his conservative views. It's weird how a new leader can change the face of the Catholic church.

This response sort of echoes my own thoughts in the matter. Apparently, the Catholic Church is easily swayed by a mere change in leadership. It makes me wonder how firm their platform really is. If one relatively small transition can change the official position of the throne of Catholicism so much regarding a formerly stalwarthy perspective, how strong are their convictions?

It really makes me wonder.

reply to post by FlyersFan


It's all about the context, in this case, it seems fine the way he said it.

BUT

Had he said it in a different way, I would at this point be emailing Vatican and telling them to forward my email internally directly to Satan, thanks.

LOL

Judging certain actions is a part of every religious and every legal/civil/political organization.

Refusing to condemn souls or to condemn bodies to death for certain actions/obsessions is something very different from refusing to condemn those actions/obsessions themselves as at least being sinful/harmful.

This Pope is taking the coward's way out of this controversy. His working orders (the Bible) should help him form an idea of what actions he should judge. Surely he has read it.

reply to post by MindBodySpiritComplex


Marrying gay couples for a little gold on the side? Sounds like it. During times of intense strife and heightened emotional strain, we sometimes fall back on more primal and "barbaric" methods of making ends meet - even if we must abandon our haughty ideals (however temporarily) to do so. After all, when push comes to shove, not everyone is willing to die for a higher sense of living. We see this even today. It's a sad reality, but reality nonetheless.

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
Judging certain actions is a part of every religious and every legal/civil/political organization.

Refusing to condemn souls or to condemn bodies to death for certain actions/obsessions is something very different from refusing to condemn those actions/obsessions themselves as at least being sinful/harmful.

This Pope is taking the coward's way out of this controversy. His working orders (the Bible) should help him form an idea of what actions he should judge. Surely he has read it.

edit on 30-7-2013 by MuzzleBreak because: (no reason given)

Not being a Christian, this may not be for me to point out...but it would appear that he HAS referred to his "working orders". The bible is fairly clear that we are not to judge others.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Plus the word of the Pope is the same as the word of God so to be a good Catholic you have to follow his words as they were Gods own.

Originally posted by roberthsiddelljr
Bad mistake Pope; you might get the Nobel Prize too but you will cost your cult a lot of civil suit money, lost members and souls. There is a line between homosexuality and pedophilia but it is so transparent and thin that it exists only in theory. On the other hand, you will gain a lot of support from the sons of Satan and Sodom.

edit on 30-7-2013 by roberthsiddelljr because: spelled and wrong somehow.

My oldest son is gay. And doesn't molest children.

What you are saying is stupid, small minded, and is only supported in the bigoted, microscopic minds of those who espouse such a viewpoint. Because there is nothing related to fact that would indicate what you seem to believe.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Plus the word of the Pope is the same as the word of God so to be a good Catholic you have to follow his words as they were Gods own.

Unfortunately, that isn't in the "working orders".

Well, considering the amount of priests sticking it up young boys, I don't think he's in a *ahem* 'position' to refute it.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Best avatar ever he moves now

Here is what the Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill had to say about the matter:

“This (West's acceptance of homosexuality) is a very dangerous sign of the apocalypse… And we must do everything so that the law never endorses sin in Holy Russia because that would mean that the people are on the path of self-destruction."

reply to post by MuzzleBreak


Makes you wonder. So many people are on board now spanning from government to religious leaders - even going as far as pushing it and making it law and doctorin. Makes you wonder...

The pope is in a catch 22.
He has a choice of saying something that is mildly supportive of homosexuality or not saying anything at all.
Being quiet is the easy option (as we rarely comment on what the pope does not say), but if he says something then is this what he believes and hope for optimism or is it simply getting on the band wagon to be popular? History shows that if religion is not contemporary then it loses influence and power.
If I was religious, I would be cautiously optimistic of the new pope as he seems to be making the right noises very early on.

On the subject of paedophiles, agree this is completely different to homosexuality. He may be the pope but will have nephews and nieces and will understand /easily imagine the horrors that these people cause.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by olaru12

 

What part of .... pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same thing ... don't you people get?
Seriously .. it's not that hard to understand. The information has been provided.
Educate yourselves. :shk:

You must be confused. I never made the connection between pedophilia and homosexuality; and....

No need to get snarky! I have no issue with homosexual priests, bus drivers, bartenders or ATS members. But I do have an issue with Priests that molest and abuse children.

Perhaps you should educate yourself to the Catholic scandal that is still being covered up and the molested kids left without recourse because the Priests have been protected from the law by the diocese and Vatican.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

I have no respect for the Catholic church, the Pope or it's members until their is full disclosure of it's crimes against children. It's not enough to acknowledge the sin. There are still people with severe emotional problems due their abuse by the Catholic clergy and they have never been recognized or treated. The Church just threw them under the bus to deal with their problems alone.


end21stcenturyslavery.blogspot.com...
And this kind of excuse is pathetic...

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Plus the word of the Pope is the same as the word of God so to be a good Catholic you have to follow his words as they were Gods own.

Not exactly. Papal infallibility refers to when the pope makes a declaration of doctrine from the Chair of Peter.
When the pope says 'who am I to judge' he is stating what the bible says ... we aren't to judge souls. That's not a declaration of doctrine from the Chair of Peter.

reply to post by FlyersFan


My bad

Originally posted by olaru12
I have no issue with homosexual priest, bus drivers, bartenders or ATS members. But I do have an issue with Priests that molest and abuse children.

Then you should have no problem with the pope saying what the bible says ... that we aren't to judge the souls of HOMOSEXUALS. He said nothing about pedophiles. Homosexuals didn't molest children. Pedophiles did. Those are two different things.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by olaru12
I have no issue with homosexual priest, bus drivers, bartenders or ATS members. But I do have an issue with Priests that molest and abuse children.

Then you should have no problem with the pope saying what the bible says ... that we aren't to judge the souls of HOMOSEXUALS. He said nothing about pedophiles. Homosexuals didn't molest children. Pedophiles did. Those are two different things.

Pedophile __Priests__ that have been protected by Diocese and the Vatican and left the children without recourse.
Until that is addressed by the Church; the church or it's members have no credibility.

www.csmonitor.com...

Telling me that I can't judge the Crimes of the Church is ludicrous. All the while you are quick to judge people on the boards. I think there is a word for that............

btw....I don't put much credence in the Bible, other than a great read. Pity Christians pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to adhere to. there is a word for that as well.............
withchristianeyes.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Nephalim
Wonder why they still dont let priests marry and allow female Priests.
These two things shouldnt be an issue either.

Priests not being allowed to marry is a discipline based on scripture. It is based on the statements in scripture that it is better to serve the Lord as a non-married person so that you won't be distracted by wives and children but instead can serve the Lord and the Lords people totally. This can change because it's a discipline and not a doctrine. (Disciplines are based on suggestions from scripture or from tradition, whereas doctrines are considered to be teachings from Jesus or God in scripture)

Women not being allowed to be priests is a DOCTRINE based on the fact that Jesus didn't have any women disciples and no women were ordained priests by him at the Last Supper.

Obviously non catholics disagree with those interpretations, but that doesn't matter. Thats the Catholic interpretation and that's how they run their church.

Yeaaaa I know it. Was just thinking of all the nuns who pray for the world and do the lords work daily.