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The "Beyond God" questions

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posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


On the contrary, the world is the most vital topic in metaphysics, imo.
It is avoided because commentators don’t know much about it.

The most vital secret in metaphysics is the world we live in that the most wise avoid.

This corrupt world we live in is a corrupted paradise or corrupted Garden of Eden.

The genesis quote is talking about a state of consciousness that involves a “created”
World from another world.

Before that world was brought into consciousness it was like a budding flour or seed.
It was a secret.

The words in Arabic and Hebrew are Janna and Gehhanna. They mean garden or enclosed space and connate a secret.


That is the world we live in and once it was a perfect world




posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

What have I written that can harm?

The mind does not like what I speak - it is terrifying, I know.
You are nothing perceiving everything,

In this moment perceiving is happening but there is no one behind the curtain.


Your entire attitude towards the topic at hand is harmful. Read your own statements, "The mind does not like what I speak - it is terrifying, I know. You are nothing perceiving everything."

If your own children started asking questions and talking to you the way I am, is that what you would say to them? Would you make them feel as if they are inferior people because they do not see "truth" in the same system you believe in? Would you tell them that they are nothing, and that they should feel as if they are nothing because the "truth" is more than they can understand?

Yeah, exactly. As I said, your mindset about this whole thing is psychologically detrimental to the people closest to you. If you in fact are not like this in your real life, then I am sorry to say that I have been indulging someone fake enough to put on this kind of a mask online yet hide his true nature in real life.

By the way, don't even think for a moment that anything you've directed at me has "terrified" me or made me feel inferior for perceiving things the way I do. I just thought I would take an extra couple of minutes to be straight forward about the kind of influence your attitude has on people who don't know how to properly receive the kind of information you've dished out. I can only thank God at this point for giving me the ability to not be affected by someone like you.



posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 01:26 PM
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I like this post it is very well done. In regards to your post about either God created the world and IS the world, or that the world and God are separate. I feel that the world and God are separate, but that the world is not just a simple creation that God just made and that is that. It is made with love, in the sense that most would see creation as a manufactured thing, like a manufactured car. But can you tell the difference between the manufactured car and the hand crafted car made out of love for say a spouse or something? Yes.

What is beyond God? To answer this you would have to be able to answer the things that are within God, and that is all creation. We do not even know the whole of the human mind, or even a fraction of what it is capable of. If we do not even know the device we use to determine what is beyond God, how can we even begin? I think God is both independent from a creation and also part of the creation. That means the very thing that is "beyond" God is also part of God.

A person is incapable of truly understanding the whole of God, no philosophy or human mind can even come close.



posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by honested3
 

Thank you for those comments.
I think the Biblical outlook would agree that the creation was done with love ( as shown by the way the Creator relates to the world afterwards).



posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


You're really intelligent in your own head aren't you? I know why you know so much about this topic, it is because in your own mind you are god, so of course you know it all. And your way of debating others has no foundation in anything other than "if I can insult this person and make them feel bad, that means I won." Quit being a bully.



posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by honested3
 

Thank you for those comments.
I think the Biblical outlook would agree that the creation was done with love ( as shown by the way the Creator relates to the world afterwards).



For sure. People forget the world was created in perfection, we were also perfect, and could speak directly to God and see God. But we threw that away for an apple. This perfection is still made available in the next life for those who accept Jesus' gift. And even today we can have perfection because we stand in this life forgiven in the next, so we all may be imperfect, but we still are perfect to God when we accept Him.



posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by honested3
"if I can insult this person and make them feel bad, that means I won."


I don't live in a world of winners and losers. I am not trying to win a competition or hurt anyone - I am expressing what is known here. It seems to offend individuals.
edit on 8-8-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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So, do we know nothing about our Creator except that (1) It is thee Creator of the Creation, and (2) we know nothing about It?
Can we ever know more than this?
How does one prove that we can know more than that?


Originally posted by DISRAELI
The solution of some, e.g. the so-called "Areopagite", is that we don't try. We just give up trying to say anything about him.
My answer would be that we must make the best use of the language we've got, but use it with caution and reservation.
Therefore anything we can say about God, including the word "God" may be true only in an analogical way, but it's the best we've got.




Its supposed communications, I think, could only be true when revealing but only a mystery, such as It being inconceivable.
Those kind of communications would be true, because they are in accordance to the logic that when the Creator is beyond Creation it is indescribable.**
We could give the Creator traits, but under the premise I've been following, I'd say they wouldn't be true traits.

So I say, we can never know the Creator beyond its trace of mystery until Its distinction from the Creation is "gone"...if it is distinct from Creation, then we, being part of that Creation, can never fully understand It in our terms no matter how much we've developed our knowing within our world - the Creator would always remain "beyond".

**Now this: if inconceivability is a product of our Creation, does it accurately apply to the Creator?



posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by 1Learner
 

As for "how can we know?", we have to move from philosophy to theology.
I re-quote part of the "definition of God" I quoted earlier;


God is one who Communicates

This assumption is built into Biblical religion.

In the first place, the Bible is believed to contain examples of communication (as reported, for example, by the prophets).

Furthermore, the Bible is believed to reflect a policy of communication.
It is said that God is using the Bible to "reveal himself", and so Biblical religion used to be described as "revealed religion".

The belief that "God is one who Communicates" links back with the belief that "God is one who Creates".

In the first place, some of the content of the communication points to God as Creator.

The proper Biblical answer to the question "Why do you believe your God made the universe?" is not really "Becasue that's the only way to account for the universe."
The truly Biblical answer is "Because he says he did, and I believe him."

But I think the very act of communication also points to God as a Creator.

Any act of communication necessarily implies a distinction between the communicator and the other party.
I've already said the Biblical understanding of Creation involves a distinction between God and the universe.

An act of communication implies the existence of a "will" in the communicator, or at least some sort of analogy of one.
But the same could be said, surely, of an act of "Creation".

Finally, a God who creates a universe thereby sets up a relationship between himself and the universe.
The effect of communication is to set up a relationship between himself and individuals (or even a group of individuals) within the same universe.

I assume that a purely monistic deity would not be communicating with, or setting up a relationship with, parts of itself.

My point is that
The idea of the God who Creates
and the idea of the God who Communicates
are very akin to one another.

The kind of God who would Create would also be the kind of God who could Communicate.


However, the language used in this self-revelation can't be used in an unqualified way.
Theologians have long understood that when God is said to sit, to use his arm, to be angry, even to love, these can only be understood analogically.
They give us an indirect idea of the way that God relates to the world.
The language may not be strictly true, but ir's the nearest we can get.
If we want to say anything about him at at all, we have to use it.
(Whereas if we confine ourselves to philosophy, we could say nothing. But philosophy, on its own, would not come up with Creation teaching in the first place)

As for "inconceivability"; I suggest that this, like the word "sin", is actually about the gap between ourselves and the Creator.





edit on 8-8-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by honested3
 
The public have an insatiable curiosity to know everything, except what is worth knowing. Oscar Wilde

Humankind cannot stand very much reality.
T.S. Eliot

The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. - Winston Churchill

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell




Anyone who cares about the truth enough to check what it is will know the truth. Those who do not care enough will not learn the truth and will be lost and deserve to be lost.

www.truthcontest.com...
edit on 9-8-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by honested3
 


Originally posted by honested3

People forget the world was created in perfection, we were also perfect, and could speak directly to God and see God. But we threw that away for an apple. This perfection is still made available in the next life for those who accept Jesus' gift. And even today we can have perfection because we stand in this life forgiven in the next, so we all may be imperfect, but we still are perfect to God when we accept Him.

Do not wait for the 'next life'. Life is eternal - it is now. Realize this and live in heaven.


True life is perfect: You can see and experience a perfect life, because that is the way life actually is. It is only our minds that mess it up.

It is hard to believe from your current perspective and level of awareness, but it is true. It is your own mind that makes life imperfect. The universe has to be perfect to exist. The universe would come apart and not exist long if it was not perfect.

You do not have to believe it; you can know it.

The present: It is interesting that the “NOW" is called the “present.” The present is the ultimate gift; it is the gift of truth and life. You are being given the present every second, and you will receive it forever. God is giving you the present; accept it. The present is the only thing that exists, the only thing you are ever conscious of. Your life is a series of presents moving through time. The future does not exist until it becomes the present.

Life is one perpetual present.

www.truthcontest.com...
edit on 9-8-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 02:11 PM
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This has been a useful thread. I won't go into theology, I think I'm finished here.



posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 02:01 PM
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This thread is being revived because the question "where did God cone from?" has been brought up again.









 
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