Is it really about preventing voting fraud or is it about preventing as much people as possible from

You need an id to get a license.
You need your id to buy cigarettes, liquor.
You need an id to get a job (legally anyhow)
You need an id to cash a check, or open an account.
You need an id to apply for college.
You need an id to travel on airplanes.
You need an id to get a library card.

Why so wrong then to need an id to vote? Seriously? Why does anyone have any problem with this whatsoever?
I don't see anyone up in arms over needing an id to borrow books from the library but when it comes to something as important to voter fraud it's "oh hell no, we shouldn't need our id's" I call bs on anyone/organization that has a problem with this.

I bring my id everywhere I go including the polls and when they don't ask to see it I shove it in their face anyhow. Dead people shouldn't vote. People shouldn't double vote. Illegals sure shouldn't vote. Only legal Americans should be able to vote..........once they prove it with an id of course.

reply to post by TDawgRex


No Comment on my proposal for Photo Voter ID? Crickets?

Originally posted by brandiwine14
You need an id to get a license.
You need your id to buy cigarettes, liquor.
You need an id to get a job (legally anyhow)
You need an id to cash a check, or open an account.
You need an id to apply for college.
You need an id to travel on airplanes.
You need an id to get a library card.

And you need an ID to vote...It's called a voter registration card.

what are you missing?

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

No Comment on my proposal for Photo Voter ID? Crickets?

Nope. I'm good with that. But there are plenty out there who are against it.

Actually, I would say that it should be a State ID. And once you move, it's invalid until it's updated.

I got enough crap in my wallet as it is.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by brandiwine14
You need an id to get a license.
You need your id to buy cigarettes, liquor.
You need an id to get a job (legally anyhow)
You need an id to cash a check, or open an account.
You need an id to apply for college.
You need an id to travel on airplanes.
You need an id to get a library card.

And you need an ID to vote...It's called a voter registration card.

what are you missing?

Try buying Sudafed using a voter registration card for ID, or to cash a check, or cigarettes, liquor....etc....
It won't work.
It is not acceptable ID to buy cold medicine. Not worth much when used for real identification purposes.

reply to post by Indigo5


You have assumed a great deal about me.

I am a Constitutional Libertarian.

I think that requiring payment for a Govt based ID, to vote is a voting tax.

But, I also disagree with the idea that the Govt should provide an ID for "free" to people.

Now, having a photo ID is just that, a photo ID. I am not sure as to how the citizen is to obtain it. I think the person has the obligation to provide proof as to who they are and is not the burden of the people to provide the means or ability to get said proof.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by brandiwine14
You need an id to get a license.
You need your id to buy cigarettes, liquor.
You need an id to get a job (legally anyhow)
You need an id to cash a check, or open an account.
You need an id to apply for college.
You need an id to travel on airplanes.
You need an id to get a library card.

And you need an ID to vote...It's called a voter registration card.

what are you missing?

Try buying Sudafed using a voter registration card for ID, or to cash a check, or cigarettes, liquor....etc....
It won't work.
It is not acceptable ID to buy cold medicine. Not worth much when used for real identification purposes.

Sudafed...whatever the clerk deems OK for ID. See last page where I corrected your claim.

Try buying ciggerettes with your library card.
Try buying explosives with your Drivers Liscense.
Try flying to China with just your DL.
Yada-yada.

Different IDs for different purposes and voter registration cards work just fine. More so than DL's in fact, lest you would like to show me fraud to this extent?

Teens arrested for buying fake IDs from China
www.dailyherald.com...


Hundreds of Fake Driver's Licenses Confiscated at UNR


Hundreds of fake Nevada driver's licenses were confiscated during a pre-dawn raid Tuesday at a University of Nevada, Reno fraternity house, authorities said.
www.8newsnow.com...

Just a sampling...how many proven cases of voter fraud again?

Originally posted by macman

I think that requiring payment for a Govt based ID, to vote is a voting tax.

But, I also disagree with the idea that the Govt should provide an ID for "free" to people.

And that leaves what?

reply to post by Indigo5


Don't really know.
It is a conundrum.

There has to be a way, not just a card you fill out by hand, to prove who you are and that you are legal to vote.
But, it should not violate the law in regards to a voting tax.

reply to post by Indigo5

Different IDs for different purposes and voter registration cards work just fine. More so than DL's in fact, lest you would like to show me fraud to this extent? 

You are ignoring the point that a photo ID is used to actually identify people because it has a photo. My voter registration card (and that's what it is, a card, nnot an accepted form of identification) is a small rectangle of paper that can be made on the cheapest photocopier.
No forms of ID are perfect, all will be counterfeited. But in my state, I wasn't asked for ID at all when I voted in the last election. It is practically inviting fraud.

You spiel about wanting to see evidence of voter fraud. You even cited a study that says it happens once in 15 million votes.
Yet I personally know two people that encountered voting fraud in one precinct in one election. You never told why, by your cited studies standard, there should have been 30 million people in that precinct that in reality is only a couple of thousand. More important is the fact that I only knew about it because they told me personally. They may have been many more cases there alone.

The only reason a lot of political fiends oppose voter ID is because it will limit the ease by which they cheat at the polls.

Originally posted by brandiwine14
You need an id to get a license.
You need your id to buy cigarettes, liquor.
You need an id to get a job (legally anyhow)
You need an id to cash a check, or open an account.
You need an id to apply for college.
You need an id to travel on airplanes.
You need an id to get a library card.

Why so wrong then to need an id to vote? Seriously? Why does anyone have any problem with this whatsoever?
I don't see anyone up in arms over needing an id to borrow books from the library but when it comes to something as important to voter fraud it's "oh hell no, we shouldn't need our id's" I call bs on anyone/organization that has a problem with this.

I bring my id everywhere I go including the polls and when they don't ask to see it I shove it in their face anyhow. Dead people shouldn't vote. People shouldn't double vote. Illegals sure shouldn't vote. Only legal Americans should be able to vote..........once they prove it with an id of course.

edit on 1-8-2013 by brandiwine14 because: (no reason given)

False Equivalency. Politicians are paid for by taxes, which in turn are paid by the people, who are obligated to do so under law.

Bear in mind though, I'm not endorsing dead people and illegal aliens voting, I'm just saying there are better arguments than the one you're using. To be specific, just about any other argument.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Different IDs for different purposes and voter registration cards work just fine. More so than DL's in fact, lest you would like to show me fraud to this extent? 

You are ignoring the point that a photo ID is used to actually identify people because it has a photo. My voter registration card (and that's what it is, a card, nnot an accepted form of identification) is a small rectangle of paper that can be made on the cheapest photocopier.
No forms of ID are perfect, all will be counterfeited. But in my state, I wasn't asked for ID at all when I voted in the last election. It is practically inviting fraud.

When you vote...they check you off the list...so you may not vote twice...

So if someone else forges YOUR card...You will know when you go to vote, you raise a stink...and lickety split that vote is set aside and Fox News is running a story about you.

If somone invents a Voter registration card...it will not show on the "rolls" that the polling place references and validates. They will not be allowed to vote.

So how do you see this fraud working?

reply to post by Indigo5

When you vote...they check you off the list...so you may not vote twice...

Hello.
My coworker and his son found out when they went to vote that their names had been crossed off, because someone that wasn't them voted in their place. So, by your account, my coworker wouldn't be able to vote, right? THEIR NAMES WERE CROSSED OFF.
Guess what?
They voted.
So their votes were counted, PLUS the cheaters that gave their name when voted for them earlier. No ID's means that this can happen easily.

If somone invents a Voter registration card...it will not show on the "rolls" that the polling place references and validates. They will not be allowed to vote. So how do you see this fraud working?

I guess you missed the part where they don't ask for ID at all in many polling places. Like where I vote.

Here is another thing to think about...
What is the percentage of registered voters that actually vote???
I can get the voter list, it is available. In many polling places, I could walk in and say that I am 'Joe Schmuckitelli', whose name I got from the list... sign on his line and vote. Then get back in line. I would have about a 50% chance that he won't even be voting anyway.

SO, if I would do this, and I voted in place of different people that didn't show up at the polls.... What indication would anyone have that voting fraud occurred?????

So how do you see this fraud working?

Are you catching on to how this works yet?
Do you see how it would be a good thing to ID voters before crossing them of as having voted???

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

When you vote...they check you off the list...so you may not vote twice...

Hello.
My coworker and his son found out when they went to vote that their names had been crossed off, because someone that wasn't them voted in their place. So, by your account, my coworker wouldn't be able to vote, right? THEIR NAMES WERE CROSSED OFF.
Guess what?
They voted.

If somone invents a Voter registration card...it will not show on the "rolls" that the polling place references and validates. They will not be allowed to vote. So how do you see this fraud working?

So their votes were counted, PLUS the cheaters that gave their name when voted for them earlier. No ID's means that this can happen easily.
I guess you missed the part where they don't ask for ID at all in many polling places. Like where I vote.

edit on 2-8-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

No offense...but that there is anecdotal and a real stretch.

No poll worker worth thier salt would allow for that. They are trained to do the exact opposite and thier can be serious consequences for allowing what you describe. It is actually Illegal for the poll worker to disregard that list. He is aiding in voter fraud. Ditto the presiding "judge" for the polling station etc. etc.

I am not saying your friend BSed you, but I am saying that I can't fathom how that was permitted.

reply to post by Indigo5

No offense...but that there is anecdotal and a real stretch. No poll worker worth thier salt would allow for that. They are trained to do the exact opposite and thier can be serious consequences for allowing what you describe. It is actually Illegal for the poll worker to disregard that list. He is aiding in voter fraud. Ditto the presiding "judge" for the polling station etc. etc. I am not saying your friend BSed you, but I am saying that I can't fathom how that was permitted.

Well, it sounds like the best that you can do, by insinuating that either my coworker and his son (both voted for Obama according to them) made this story up (why would they? ) or that I am lying.

Your lame reliance on the poll workers.... (remember the one that was stupid enough to admit to voting for Obama SIX times!) is a reliance on senior citizens in every voting place that I have been to in my life. Senior citizens that will say the darndest things. One told me that the polls closed at six (they closed at eight)pm. Another asked my 10 year old daughter that was with me what her name was and was looking for her name on the list. I stopped her before she went very far with that. My daughter did not pass for 18 at age 10.

I am saying that I can't fathom how that was permitted.

You are either not being truthful or you are naive and trust the system the way it is.

Now, answer the question that I put to you:

If I went into the polling place and voted by signing off as another person, and that registered voter did not vote, how would the voting fraud be discovered?

reply to post by Indigo5

If somone invents a Voter registration card...it will not show on the "rolls" that the polling place references and validates. They will not be allowed to vote. So how do you see this fraud working?

well what about the fake names from fake registrations.

and what about the people who do the 'check offs' and 'allow' a '2nd vote'.

and we all know some precincts can generate fake rolls.

I have actually seen this firsthand in Chicago.

It happens.

The biggest fear of the fake vote election 'fixers' is a photo I.D.

That must be why we are seeing so much 'opposition'

One of these days I will tell you a true story about the 1983 Chicago Mayoral election.
Do some research on that and maybe I will tell the story, but I would have to take the 5th ahead of time.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Well, it sounds like the best that you can do, by insinuating that either my coworker and his son (both voted for Obama according to them) made this story up (why would they?

) or that I am lying.

They way polls are arranged...ideally you have both a Dem and Rep. working side by side whenever possible.

they both have to sign-off on any descrepencies...and the one you describe would have been FIVE ALARMS...the type of unquestionable issue that would have had the entire polling staff involved.

In addition each polling center has a "Judge"...

Everyone working there would have knowingly put themselves at literal legal risk having been educated that the scenario you describe is precisely what they are supposed to stop,

So no...I am not calling you a lyerr..or your friend...just stating the obvious.

reply to post by Indigo5

That's discounting the fact that everyone at the polling places that I have voted at are at minimum 75 years old and have signs of senility.

Now my turn to be 'obvious'.....

If I went into the polling place and voted by signing off as another person, and that registered voter did not vote, how would the voting fraud be discovered?

Got an answer?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5

 

That's discounting the fact that everyone at the polling places that I have voted at are at minimum 75 years old and have signs of senility.

Now my turn to be 'obvious'.....

If I went into the polling place and voted by signing off as another person, and that registered voter did not vote, how would the voting fraud be discovered?

Got an answer?

I suppose that is possible? But how would the voter be certain that the person they are impersonating hasn't voted already? Where would they collect the neccessary info...including Voter Registration number, not just addy etc.? Why would they go to the effort of forging the Voter Registration card? And risk being prosecuted for Voter fraud? For what? A single vote? I am confused about the incentive vs. work and risk in such a scenario? For a single vote??

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by butcherguy

Well, it sounds like the best that you can do, by insinuating that either my coworker and his son (both voted for Obama according to them) made this story up (why would they?

) or that I am lying.

They way polls are arranged...ideally you have both a Dem and Rep. working side by side whenever possible.

they both have to sign-off on any descrepencies...and the one you describe would have been FIVE ALARMS...the type of unquestionable issue that would have had the entire polling staff involved.

In addition each polling center has a "Judge"...

Everyone working there would have knowingly put themselves at literal legal risk having been educated that the scenario you describe is precisely what they are supposed to stop,

So no...I am not calling you a lyerr..or your friend...just stating the obvious.

edit on 2-8-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

You are 'assuming' honesty exists.

That don't happen in some areas.

A heavily 'Democratic' area for example, would easily infiltrate 'opposing' parties' ranks of 'officials'.

That's one highly successful tactic.

They then are able to get a higher ghost vote count.

I've seen it happen.