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Is it really about preventing voting fraud or is it about preventing as much people as possible from

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posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 

What percentage of US citizens do not have a photo ID today?

To have this number would do a great service to the cause of these poor disenfranchised souls. Once we see just how high the percentage is, we will realize just how big this problem is.

Do them a favor and find us some good numbers.




posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Links to the non-partisan, non-bias, independent study proving your statement please.




A new nationwide analysis of more than 2,000 cases of alleged election fraud over the past dozen years shows that in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which has prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tougher voter ID laws, was virtually non-existent.

The analysis of 2,068 reported fraud cases by News21, a Carnegie-Knight investigative reporting project, found 10 cases of alleged in-person voter impersonation since 2000. With 146 million registered voters in the United States, those represent about one for every 15 million prospective voters.



Read more: www.azcentral.com...

Honestly...I kind of don't care...

The way I see this playing out is the GOP doing thier darndest to disenfranchise people they think won't vote for them...

But those people are growing every year...it won't work...it will only piss off those voters to the extent where they will lose MORE voters.

And the GOP has only won the Popular vote ONCE in a Presidential election in the past 24 years...think about that.

They can't eliminate enough voters...only worsen thier losing streak by antogonizing them.

That's the facts...



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 





Geez people...study after study show that these measures do nothing but eliminate legal voters.


That ONE study you linked said NOTHING of eliminating legal voters only that illegal voting wasn't wide spread in person. Now link me more than 1 study that shows that the measures listed in the OP "ELIMINATE LEGAL VOTERS" like you claimed.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5
 

What percentage of US citizens do not have a photo ID today?

To have this number would do a great service to the cause of these poor disenfranchised souls. Once we see just how high the percentage is, we will realize just how big this problem is.

Do them a favor and find us some good numbers.



I'll dig around.

Voters do have IDs...It's called thier Voter Registration card...

Now...if you want to claim that is insufficient and upgrade to a Poto ID...then fine, but that should be the burden of the Gov....not the person.

Urban...city dwellers...working hourly jobs that can't take the time off to vote.

They don't drive, they vote early or on off-days..Disproportionately lower income.

SO Voter ID laws, like the one proposed by the GOP in Illinois...would have placed the nearest office where a Voter ID could be obtained...50+ Miles from the city...for folks that by definition don't have cars...and the offices were going to be open just a couple of times a month during core work hours in the middle of the week.

See how that works?



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 

1 in 15 million, eh?
I guess the odds would be astronomical against my coworker and his son going to the polls in the last presidential election and finding that someone had already voted for each of them. There were only several thousand people in their precinct, but according to the numbers you posted, there should be 30 MILLION!
Who is to say that there weren't more that voted for other people in that some precinct? Who reported these two cases? Was it even investigated?

They have no idea how much voter fraud exists. Anyone that says they do are blowing hot gas from an orifice.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 




Voters do have IDs...It's called thier Voter Registration card...

I said photo ID.
But you knew that.
The last election, I didn't need to show any ID. NONE.
edit on 29-7-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5
 

What percentage of US citizens do not have a photo ID today?





Studies show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo ID. That percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students.

www.brennancenter.org...

Also here


A 2005 report from a federal voting rights commission chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker said in a footnote that about 12 percent of the United States voting-age population did not have driver’s licenses. The figure came from U.S. Department of Transportation and Census Bureau data.


Also here


May 24, 2011, report from Norman Robbins, research director for Northeast Ohio Voter Advocates, that examined driver’s license data specifically in Ohio. The report concluded that 940,000 Ohioans over age 18 lacked driver’s licenses. That’s nearly an 11 percent rate

www.politifact.com...



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5
 




Voters do have IDs...It's called thier Voter Registration card...

I said photo ID.
But you knew that.


Which is why I followed that sentence with...


Now...if you want to claim that is insufficient and upgrade to a Photo ID


Care to adress the remainder of my post?



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Thank you. Now we have a number to work with... 11-12%.

How do these people cash checks?
How do they buy medication?
What do they show the policeman when he demands to see their 'papers'?

Better yet, how can our government tolerate them living without photo ID?



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Honestly...would you risk fines and potential jail time...in hopes that your 1 in 150 million votes sways an election?

I am missing the logic here..Ya know who isn't?



House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R-Allegheny) suggested that the House’s end game in passing the Voter ID law was to benefit the GOP politically.

“Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”

www.politicspa.com...
edit on 29-7-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Thank you. Now we have a number to work with... 11-12%.

How do these people cash checks?
How do they buy medication?
What do they show the policeman when he demands to see their 'papers'?

Better yet, how can our government tolerate them living without photo ID?


It's a whole different world in the hourly, blue-collar realm of the city.

You cash a check at the bank that issued it..or if you have an account, there. The same way that elderly conduct banking after they have lost thier drivers liscense.

I have never been carded buying medication...no even prescriptions...I drop off the prescription and pick it up, sign my name?

Most people who don't drive, don't get pulled over? If you mean stopped on the street? That hasn't happened to me in decades...so? Not sure if that is an issue? The cops deal with folks that don't have photo ID all the time?



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 




Urban...city dwellers...working hourly jobs that can't take the time off to vote.

What's that have to do with getting a photo ID? We require them at the company I am employed with. What kind of business hires people with no means of identification? (the ones that hire illegal aliens... if you are looking for an answer).



They don't drive, they vote early or on off-days..Disproportionately lower income.

This has nothing to do with photo ID voting laws.



SO Voter ID laws, like the one proposed by the GOP in Illinois...would have placed the nearest office where a Voter ID could be obtained...50+ Miles from the city...for folks that by definition don't have cars...and the offices were going to be open just a couple of times a month during core work hours in the middle of the week.

Do you really think that every person in Illinois that has a photo ID had to go 50 miles to get it? That would be at least 88% of the population, using your numbers.... you think that the people of Illinois actually put up with something like that?



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 



The same way that elderly conduct banking after they have lost thier drivers liscense.

You are reaching. Elderly people that lose their drivers license get a state-issued photo ID. I know elderly people.
People in urban areas have a much shorter trip to the DMV to get a photo ID. It's the people (probably hicks in your eyes) that live in rural areas that have a long and difficult trip to get to the DMV, yet they manage to do it.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 




Honestly...would you risk fines and potential jail time...in hopes that your 1 in 150 million votes sways an election? I am missing the logic here..Ya know who isn't?
I think that you don't understand what was said. MY coworker and his son went to vote... they found that someone had already voted, USING their name... before the father and son arrived at the polls to vote! Ask me why someone would risk jail time???? I certainly wouldn't, but that is beside the point!!! Someone did! And your statistics say that there shouldn't have been 2 cases unless there were 30 million voters in that precinct... I think you were just trying to avoid the point here.
What? Did the poll worker that voted for Obama 6 times slip your mind?

Anyway, how many of those 11-12% of the population actually bother to vote?
We know that a low percentage of those that are registered bother to vote. How many of a group that can't be troubled with possessing a photo ID actually care enough to vote?



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 

yes...that's only 11% of people who would have to get ID. did i mention most states considering these proposals offer free ID?

that 11% wouldn't be prevented from voting, they'd merely have to get a FREE ID that proves they are who they say, and that they are indeed eligible to vote.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by muse7
 


So, how do you verify that someone voting, is who they say they are and that they can legally vote then?



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy



SO Voter ID laws, like the one proposed by the GOP in Illinois...would have placed the nearest office where a Voter ID could be obtained...50+ Miles from the city...for folks that by definition don't have cars...and the offices were going to be open just a couple of times a month during core work hours in the middle of the week.

Do you really think that every person in Illinois that has a photo ID had to go 50 miles to get it? That would be at least 88% of the population, using your numbers.... you think that the people of Illinois actually put up with something like that?


No, we blocked it in Illinois, thank god. It wasn't for a photo ID...It was for a specific VOTER Photo ID as the GOP here were demanding...whilst placing the only offices available who woyuld issue those IDs 50+ miles away from urban centers and open only 3 times a month...from something like 12-3pm...they claimed the limited locations and office hours were to save money.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by Indigo5
 

yes...that's only 11% of people who would have to get ID. did i mention most states considering these proposals offer free ID?


Most but not all...and the rub is in where and when you can get the ID.

If you need to pay for a taxi (you don't have a car) to take you 50+ miles away...and you risk losing your job because they are only open 12-3 every other Wed. ...Is that free?



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 



If you need to pay for a taxi (you don't have a car) to take you 50+ miles away...and you risk losing your job because they are only open 12-3 every other Wed. ...Is that free?

can you show that this is commonplace?

you're using examples that are extremely rare and substituting them in to make it seem a common occurrence.



posted on Jul, 29 2013 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


Ok I will skip the "proposals" which are pretty ugly in few offices/few hour and far distances....and just provide what has passed.



•Nearly 500,000 eligible voters do not have access to a vehicle and live more than 10 miles from the nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. Many of them live in rural areas with dwindling public transportation options.
•More than 10 million eligible voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week.
•1.2 million eligible black voters and 500,000 eligible Hispanic voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. People of color are more likely to be disenfranchised by these laws since they are less likely to have photo ID than the general population.
•Many ID-issuing offices maintain limited business hours.

For example, the office in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month. But only four months in 2012 — February, May, August, and October — have five Wednesdays.




www.brennancenter.org...



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