Eat My Flesh Drink My Blood. John 6:54

Originally posted by Akragon

I find It interesting that you seem to know my posting history.... yet haven't realised I don't believe "hell" exists... at least in the way your typical Christian views the idea

If the humor eludes,
that's ok.

And I'm not trying to categorize anyone here.
I don't like it done to me,
I certainly refrain from categorizing others.

I just meant I found your posting history both
enlightened and close to my position on many things.

If I presume too much I apologize.

Originally posted by Akragon

SO if im understanding you correctly... You're saying those that mock Jesus will go to hell?

Correct me if im wrong...

Yikes.
Go to Hell?, uh, no.
Burn with embarrassment from being ridiculed and laughed at. Yes.
Totally different thing.

Besides what is hell?

Say everyone lives forever,
but the person next to you makes 5 cents more a day than you do.
For the first couple of hundred years it probably wont even bother you.
After thousands, it may very well grow so large in the mind that it becomes
unending torment.

But you know all this already.
Don't you.


MIke

Originally posted by triune
Jesus meant for people to eat in his words and drink in his wisdom, to take in what he taught as eagerly and as frequently as we take in food, for the knowledge he was giving us would literally lead to eternal life.

Ten points of the Glory of God to you Triune.

To invest or spend as you please,
with %10 of any gain owed
to the deliverer Annually.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Ok I see where you're coming from now...

Bare with me... I just woke up like an hour ago...

Still working on my first coffee...

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by leeda

 

When one eats or drinks one eats and drinks what is here where the body is. The body is always present and it eats and drinks what is present.
You can eat and drink in what is seen and heard (Jesus tried to teach the deaf to hear and the blind to see) but one must use one's ears and eyes.
It is a message that tries to convey that one must be present with what is arising presently.
The suffering that humans have to bear comes from dwelling in the mind - the mind leads one out of presence into the realm of 'what is not happening'.
Eat and drink in and taste what is here instead of going to the mind.

It is the thoughts of other times and places and the thoughts that are projected onto others that cause suffering.
See, hear, smell and taste the sensation that is happening always presently - it is aliveness itself.

But until Jesus was crucified "History" wasn't really a "thing."
Now it is. It's a subject. It's a profession. It's even a
section in the library. So many questions people
wanted answered, so few surviving accounts.

Man has taken up writing histories as a result.

Isn't living in the now
at the expense of history
the same thing as trying to erase Jesus?


How long is this going to go on? Erasing Jesus was already tried, in the most literal and physical sense. And like Obi Wan Kenobi, struck down he grew more powerful than we could possibly have imagined. Is finishing religion really going to bring the story to it's conclusion, or is finishing the story, perchance, going to conclude religion.

Such a simple thing, to finish a story when one isn't wracked by fear or guilt. To break the spell when one isn't enchanted by mystery of fairies. To get on with life when one is free of doubt.



Consider John the Baptist.

John was driven from Jerusalem at a young age.
Remember how all the babies 2 years and younger
were slaughtered. Someone in the community knew
that baby John was still alive, and being son of a
high priest was not a coincidence. There were a lot
of jealous women there who were bitter about what
had transpired. Just before he was seven John was
bullied out of town and grew up as a feral child.

Later when a new generation grew up John was like
the boogie man, a ghost, the memory of slain child-
ren. But like all children do, the new generation out-
grew the restrictions of their parents, and when he
turned out to be groovy and fun everyone went
swimming.

If not for this decoy, Iesous would never have been
able to have a normal childhood. Let alone figure
out how to be a man on his own. John is the quest-
ion 'who is the sacrifice for the sacrifice.' John took
the heat and the abandonment that we treat our
fathers' word with. This allowed Iesous to grow until
he was ready.

The whole time John was in prison they thought they had the one. Tragic story really. The past is a brutal and bloody place.


Mike

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

All words are spirit and life.
The word was with God in the beginning and the word is God.
There is only spirit and life.
This is it - no matter how it is arising - it may arise as a word or as food.
The arising word disappears and can never stay - all just wisps of nothing appearing in nothing.

Apparent things, like food and words, arise and subside in the space that you are.

The soul is different than spirit.
The only ones who want you to think they are the same are corporations.

None the less,
ten points of the Glory of God to you Itisnowagain.

To invest or spend as you please,
with %10 of any gain owed
to the deliverer Annually.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Were you trolling OP and I got caught in the crossfire?

I'm not judging you.

I am simply, and candidly, asking you: how did you come upon this notion:

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

This is asking for the Revelation.

Not to be given out lightly.
Not to be cast before the unworthy.
Not to be shared with those who rage.
Not to be placed where mud still splatters.

What prize is brought forward to claim such knowing?

Mike

Is there any verses you can point to?

Originally posted by Wifibrains

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
He was obviously speaking metaphorically, not literally.

I think he may have meant his "flesh and blood" as our own physical bodies.

In my opinion, when Jesus spoke of himself, he was by extension speaking about anyone else who understood his words as well. To "eat his flesh and drink his blood" means to have life within a physical body, and whoever has a body has life.

I know many won't agree, but that's just a guess on my part.

I think you are right in that he meant his "flesh and blood" as our own physical bodies.

Eating the flesh and blood and gaining eternal life could be symbolic of the realisation/knowing that physical life is secondary/temperary and your soul/spirit is eternal.

Wi-fi

Not bad Wifibrains,

but why did Judas betray him then?
He knew and understood his words.
And he was offended and turned away.

The Greek word used to describe "eat" my body
should more accurately be translated at "gnaw, bloodily chew, gnash with teeth"
and was quite literally chosen as the most earthy form of eating.
The least symbolic choice for the word "eat" by the author.

"trogo": "Primarily, to gnaw, to chew, stresses the slow process"

trogo: " to eat expressed through the idea of a crunching sound; to gnaw or chew"

None the less,
ten points of the Glory of God to you Wifibrains.

To invest or spend as you please,
with %10 of any gain owed
to the deliverer Annually.



Mike

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

Were you trolling OP and I got caught in the crossfire?

I'm not judging you.

I am simply, and candidly, asking you: how did you come upon this notion:

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

This is asking for the Revelation.

Not to be given out lightly.
Not to be cast before the unworthy.
Not to be shared with those who rage.
Not to be placed where mud still splatters.

What prize is brought forward to claim such knowing?

Mike

Is there any verses you can point to?

I don't know you Bleeeeep,
but I certainly have not mistaken you for the
person who started this thread.

As to your question,
I have to point out that it is reversible.

Are there any verses that we can point to?


Mike

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The Real Presence

The 'it's a symbol' interpretation could make sense. But then again ... there have been Eucharistic miracles through the centuries. I saw one when I was in Betania Venezuela. I was literally one inch away from it.

After Jesus said that people must eat His body and drink His blood, man people left him and said that His teachings were too hard to hear. Instead of changing his tune, Jesus then said "AMEN AMEN I say to you .. " and He repeated what He said. Instead of saying, 'don't take me literally' .. he reemphasized the part about eating His body and drinking His blood.

This teaching has been a sore point between Catholics/Orthodox/Episcopalians/ (who believe that Jesus is truly present body and soul in the Eucharist) and the more protestant groups of Baptists/Methodists/Church of Christ, etc (who think it's just a symbol). Some Lutherans believe in a 'true presence' and some think it's a symbol. They are split.

Best answer so far in the thread.
Spoken as testimony, not speculation.
Not complete, but who am I to say more.

One hundred points of the Glory of God to you FlyersFan.

To invest or spend as you please,
with %10 of any gain owed
to the deliverer Annually.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


I don't know of any verses that says we should not be straightforward with our understandings to all, but in consideration of Jesus speaking in parables (Matthew 13:10-17), I thought maybe you knew of a passage that expresses that we should...

And that is why I asked you; because that is basically what you're saying. Isn't it?

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

I don't know of any verses that says we should not be straightforward with our understandings to all, but in consideration of Jesus speaking in parables (Matthew 13:10-17), I thought maybe you knew of a passage that expresses that we should...

And that is why I asked you; because that is basically what you're saying. Isn't it?

When was it established that
anyone was not being straightforward?


Mike

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

I don't know of any verses that says we should not be straightforward with our understandings to all, but in consideration of Jesus speaking in parables (Matthew 13:10-17), I thought maybe you knew of a passage that expresses that we should...

And that is why I asked you; because that is basically what you're saying. Isn't it?

As to Matthew 13:10-17

Interesting choice.

Is that talking about algebra in a world of geometry,
is it talking about exposing motives in a world of power,
or is it talking about light to light, and darkness to darkness.

All three?


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


The parable and the explanation are about faith. Without soil (faith), seeds(understanding) will not grow(understanding will not be gained by the faithless).

I don't know what you're getting at or if you are even trying to get at anything besides trolololol.

I do not think it is inferred that, because Jesus spoke in parable, we too should speak in parables so the faithless do not understand.... I think the confusion will beset them no matter what we say....

But you mentioned it should not be given lightly, nor cast before the unworthy, nor to those in rage, nor where mud splatters... And I ask again, where did you see such a notion in the Bible or anywhere?

Do you have a straightforward answer or just more riddles?

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

The parable and the explanation are about faith. Without soil (faith), seeds(understanding) will not grow(understanding will not be gained by the faithless).

I don't know what you're getting at or if you are even trying to get at anything besides trolololol.

I do not think it is inferred that, because Jesus spoke in parable, we too should speak in parables so the faithless do not understand.... I think the confusion will beset them no matter what we say....

But you mentioned it should not be given lightly, nor cast before the unworthy, nor to those in rage, nor where mud splatters... And I ask again, where did you see such a notion in the Bible or anywhere?

Do you have a straightforward answer or just more riddles?

Perhaps "do not cast pearls before swine" might be a relevant passage?

Originally posted by Bleeeeep

Do you have a straightforward answer or just more riddles?

I have more,
but I don't feel that you will like it.

I still have no idea what you stand for,
but
you have stepped forward.
That is enough for me.

So here is mine.
What I stand for.

Mike
==========================
What did John think of Jesus. He lived in
the desert wearing a shirt made of camel's hair,
fed on locusts, and preached the coming of the
kingdom.

Jesus shows up, gets to dip in the river Jordan,
and then wanders in the desert for forty days
without food. Fasting leads to hallucinations.
The desert is John's home. Lets fly in there and
watch as they interact.





John comes up to Jesus and says, "The locust are
tasty, once you get used to them, and got me
these muscles. You can find them hiding in the
shade under the stones. Just turn one over."

And the tempter coming said to him: If
thou be the Son of God, command that these stones
be made bread.

(Jesus)Who answered and said: It is written, Not
in bread alone doth man live, but in every word
that proceedeth from the mouth of God.

- Mathew 4:3 - 4

John said "Locust is a word. And went away
confused."




John realizes that Jesus is following him, but
still isn't eating. So he leads him to the
village at Qumran. Every instance where John had
gotten near Qumran the people there had tried to
bathe him without his permission, so he crept up
and peered down. Jesus came up along side him to
see what he was looking at.

John says "There is city food down there. I can
smell it. But be careful. They will make you go
into their pools of water and hold your arms so
you don't slip, and rub you down with soap. Soap
they call it. They write a lot of books down
there."

Then the devil took him up into the holy city,
and set him upon the pinnacle of the temple,
And said to him: If thou be the Son of God, cast
thyself down, for it is written: That he hath
given his angels charge over thee, and in their
hands shall they bear thee up, lest perhaps thou
dash thy foot against a stone.

Jesus said to him: It is written again: Thou
shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

- Mathew 4:5 - 7

The next day, still being followed John was
wondering what to do. This man will not eat.
But dying in the desert from starvation is bad.
So John went to the peak of the tallest hill, and
they arrived at night. All around they could see
the fires of various towns, villages and camps
burning in all directions, and John said "There
are women in all these places who will feed
strangers. They won't feed me cause they say I
am not adorable. But maybe they will feed you.
If you will just go down to one of them. Maybe
they will adore ye."

Again the devil took him up into a very
high mountain, and shewed him all the kingdoms of
the world, and the glory of them,

And said to him: All these will I give
thee, if falling down thou wilt adore me.

Then Jesus saith to him: Begone, Satan:
for it is written, The Lord thy God shalt thou
adore, and him only shalt thou serve.

- Matthew 4:8 - 9

John left him there and went to Qumran where he
told the people "There is a man named Jesus on
top of the mountain. He is near to death from
lack of food. Please have mercy on him and bring
him something to eat. He may listen to your
white robes, where my ugly self has offended
him." And the men went and did as John said.

Then the devil left him; and behold angels came
and ministered to him.

- Matthew 4:10

The men climbed to the top of the hill, called
Jesus by name, and fed him. They brought him down
to the village, where they treated him. Aside
from some hearing loss, he would make a full
recovery. Months later they learned that John had
been arrested. They told Jesus in a loud voice
"The man John, who sent you to us has been
arrested by the Pharisees, and was turned over to
that vile King Herod." But they had to keep
saying it over and over. Pharisees is not an easy
word to say both loud and clearly. Till one of
them stooped down and wrote the word in the sand.

And when Jesus had heard that John was delivered up, he retired into Galilee:

- Matthew 4:12

Originally posted by Akragon

Perhaps "do not cast pearls before swine" might be a relevant passage?

Awww, man.
Be nice Akragon.

Still looking for the Joke?

How about this.

What if Jesus was forced to attend the wedding of the woman he loved,
but in the ancient world of arranged marriages, he was considered
too low class and not a good-enough choice for some important
man's daughter. His soul mate, his other half.

Would that be enough to make one unhappy at a wedding?


Worse, the man she married already had wives.

Then later,
while on his mission,
he finds out that she is being pimped out
using an old testament clause whereby a man
may profit from another person sleeping with his wife.

What would you do?


Mike

1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

- John chapter 8

reply to post by mikegrouchy


I thought I was being nice...

Im quite over the little "joke"... I was just helping Bleeep with a passage which was relevant to what she was asking for..

But you mentioned it should not be given lightly, nor cast before the unworthy, nor to those in rage, nor where mud splatters... And I ask again, where did you see such a notion in the Bible or anywhere?

See?

Originally posted by leeda
John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life,

What is your take on what Jesus means to eat his flesh and drink his blood.

Before the time of Osiris the tribes took Holy Communion in a very special way. The wisest person in the tribe was sacrificed for the common good. After the person was killed, the tribe ate him/her. They ate him so to become like him. One interp is that this is the follow-on from the Alexandrian translators of the NT who knew that some would understand this symbolism

Originally posted by TheOd

Originally posted by leeda
John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life,

What is your take on what Jesus means to eat his flesh and drink his blood.

Before the time of Osiris the tribes took Holy Communion in a very special way. The wisest person in the tribe was sacrificed for the common good. After the person was killed, the tribe ate him/her. They ate him so to become like him. One interp is that this is the follow-on from the Alexandrian translators of the NT who knew that some would understand this symbolism

That's probably what Judas thought was going on.
A return to some ancient cannibalistic paganism.
Which is why he walked out offended.

What people are still tripping over.

But what happened after Judas left?
What did they eat.


Mike

Pizza.

Everybody likes pizza.