The Ancients Knew More Than We Give Credit..

reply to post by Astyanax


Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

You are demanding the OP provide you with a source that you would deem credible while declaring anything to do with sacred geometry to be beyond credibility.

Anyone who has studied astrology and the occult in even a limited capacity had a strange little epiphany when it was revealed that there was a hexagonal storm system on Saturn. Your attempt to break down certain symbols into their more primal forms does nothing but illustrate principles occultists have known for centuries while displaying your own ignorance.

ETA:

Leave it to FriedBabelBroccoli to be far more gentle and put it far more eloquently than I.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

 

Very well; be so kind as to explain, with references, the sacred or mystical symbolism of the hexagon as opposed to the hexagram. If you can't do that, you had better withdraw your claims.

You are right in that there is a clear difference between the hexagram and hexagon. A theory I have been working through that seems to correlate with the hexagonal or pentagonal shapes is that they are used in physical structure while the the angular hexagram or pentagram are associated more strongly with non-physical structure or rather principles.

The pentacle being expressed in the movement of the heavenly body of Venus and the hexagram can be derived from the movement of the bodies as well. This thread, The Secrets of Heaven , which does a great job identifying the origins of how the movement of planets were converted into principles of consciousness. It may sound wild however it is important to note that, if you believe modern history concerning Egypt, these principles led to the intellect which constructed the pyramids.

-FBB

Look for the hexagrams:
Indian Hexagram
And this Saturn astrology:

Saturn

reply to post by Granite


Very nice..I find it interesting the the Sanskrit word Satya, means truth. This is supposed to be equated with the word Satan. I really think that Christianity and it's domineering role and influence over society as a whole today is partially to blame for the mass confusion between comparative religion.

Then, there is Sanat Kumara and all the implications that go with him...

Sanat Kumara

Originally posted by CircleOfDust
They don't know how to explain how Saturn radiates heat. They say Saturn was once our main Sol. Makes more sense than trying to figure out why someone would muddle the conversation trying to remind us the amazing difference between a hexagon and a hexagram.

Don't forget the Kepler trigon.

I tried looking things up about Saturn once being our main Sol, but there's so much crap to sort through... could you possibly post a link to somewhere that might have some information on the topic? That'd be amazing

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Granite

 

Very nice..I find it interesting the the Sanskrit word Satya, means truth. This is supposed to be equated with the word Satan. I really think that Christianity and it's domineering role and influence over society as a whole today is partially to blame for the mass confusion between comparative religion.

Don't look now kids, but there is a freemason equating truth with satan!

All kidding aside, It wouldn't be the first time

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Not a Freemason. But it's no secret either that the Sanskrit language predated Hebrew...I tend to believe that Christianity has been reversed and many people are treating Satan as God, and God as Satan...

It's like accusing your adversary of being a deceiver, while you are the one deceiving others into believing he is really the adversary...

Just my opinion though. Take it for what you will.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

Well done; it looks like you hit some kind of jackpot.

In Qabala, six is the number of the sephira Tipereth, and therefore this hexagon represents the beauty and spiritual love manifested in the natural universe.

Good. We now have a basis for discussion. Could you please explain, next, how a hexagon-shaped storm on Saturn represents 'the beauty and spiritual love manifested in the natural universe'? Bearing in mind, of course, that Saturn was in no way a beautiful, spiritual or loving deity:

The potential cruelty of Saturn was enhanced by his identification with Cronus, known for devouring his own children. He was thus equated with the Carthaginian god Ba'al Hammon, to whom children were sacrificed. Later this identification gave rise to the African Saturn, a cult that enjoyed great popularity til the 4th century. It had a popular but also a mysteric character and required child sacrifices. Source

You tell me I'm shifting the goalposts. On the contrary, I am merely trying to ensure that they are firmly planted, and that they are still the same goalposts we started the game with. When you try to make a hexagon into a hexagram, it is you, not I, who are shifting goalposts. It's no use trying to muddy the issue by saying a hexagon contains a hexagram; if a storm on Saturn looks like a hexagon, it should be represented by a hexagon, not a hexagram.

My point – and I will repeat it here, for clarity – is that the kind of thinking that equates hexagons with hexagrams, or the ages of man in Greek mythology with the ages of the universe in Indian cosmology as you did in an earlier thread, is the kind of thinking can connect anything with anything – and usually does. It is fantasy and make-believe, useless for any meaningful, practical purpose.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Granite
Very nice..I find it interesting the the Sanskrit word Satya, means truth.

Did you also find it interesting that, according to the link Granite posted,

Saturn rules number 8 in indian numerology.

and that the symbol for Saturn shown on that page is not a hexagon but an octagon?

reply to post by Astyanax

and that the symbol for Saturn shown on that page is not a hexagon but an octagon?

Oh really?



I was under the impression that's a hexagram in the center...

I double checked the website, and it never made any sort of mention about Saturn being represented by an Octagon....

Or did you make up that inference all on your own simply because of it being aligned with the number 8 in Indian numerology...

Is it supposed to be a coincidence that Saturn is the sixth planet from the Sun too?

reply to post by Astyanax

The potential cruelty of Saturn was enhanced by his identification with Cronus, known for devouring his own children. He was thus equated with the Carthaginian god Ba'al Hammon, to whom children were sacrificed. Later this identification gave rise to the African Saturn, a cult that enjoyed great popularity til the 4th century. It had a popular but also a mysteric character and required child sacrifices.

Clearly, not a fan of astro-theology...So I won't even both explaining that this isn't in the slightest to be taken literally..

The hexagon is one of the geometric shapes that occurs in nature. Found in the formation of honeycomb it is associated with bees and their co-operative, hard-working natures.

I'm giving you only a tiny portion of the meal....I'm not here to hold your hand, or convince you of anything. You are quite free to disbelieve. However, do not expect me to continue replying and feeding into your childish games. You're outlook on life, is not my outlook on life, and never will be. Capice?

What do you see when you look at a hexagram?

Me? I see a hexagon, and the hexagram. It's like looking at a honeycomb, and not just seeing the honeycomb, but all of the hexagons that make it up.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

You are demanding the OP provide you with a source that you would deem credible while declaring anything to do with sacred geometry to be beyond credibility.

Would you be kind enough to point out exactly where I made such a declaration?

Anyone who has studied astrology and the occult in even a limited capacity had a strange little epiphany when it was revealed that there was a hexagonal storm system on Saturn.

No they didn't. I have studied those subjects too. Indeed, I have spent years listening – that's right, listening, at first hand, face to face – to astrologers, palmists, sorcerers, Buddhist monks who meditate, Hindu holy men and even a few peddlers of Western mysticism, which often tends to be mysticism from my part of the world warmed over and recycled. My best friend in adolescence has a mother who was a spirit medium and an occultist; I was in and out of her house every day and saw plenty of occult goings-on. I have also done a great deal of reading on the subject. But the hexagon on Saturn didn't give me any 'strange little epiphany', I assure you.

The difference between you and me lies not in knowledge but in belief. You give credence to this tripe. I don't. I used to, for a while; but then, thank goodness, I grew up.

Your attempt to break down certain symbols into their more primal forms does nothing but illustrate principles occultists have known for centuries while displaying your own ignorance.

Nonsense. I just pointed out that a hexagon is not a hexagram.

reply to post by Astyanax


A hexagon may not be a hexagram, but a hexagram is also a hexagon...Funny how you worded that...Almost as if it was...deliberate..

No they didn't.

I'm sorry, are you a mind reader? Cause if you are, I've found this island called Atlantis, that I'd like to sell you if you can read my mind...What am I thinking now?

It's alright to voice the assertion that you didn't receive any kind of epiphany relating to the subject, but that doesn't mean nobody else has....Which begs this question again : Are you a mind reader?

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

The borders of that figure form an octagon, or, if you're being pedantic, a 24-sided figure with eightfold symmetry. The sentence I quoted about Saturn and the number 8 is directly above the figure.

reply to post by Astyanax


So basically you did make an inference without any source of validity? The source never stated that the octagon was the geometric symbol of Saturn..You made that inference all on your own...Talk about connecting dots that aren't there!

So let me ask you a question... You can see a pretty vague octagon within that picture, while the hexagram is a dominating aspect, yet you act as if you don't see a hexagon inside of a hexagram....Get outta here with your lack of commitment to respond the same way in analogous situations...

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

The source never stated that the octagon was the geometric symbol of Saturn.

I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious to someone as well-versed in the occult as yourself. However, that entire figure is presented as the yantra of Saturn. It has been drawn by a western artist, doubtless one of the same persuasion as yourself, who has created a New Age version of the figure with a hexagon in the middle of it.

If you click on the figure on that page it will take you to a page about the symbol. Dear me, look at what it's called – 'Yantra of Saturn'. Are you now going to argue that 'yantra' doesn't mean 'symbol'?

Now, just to help along the process of enlightenment, here are a few real Hindu Saturn yantras to compare with that piece of Western New Age mumbo-jumbo:

Here

Here

No hexagons – or hexagrams, either – anywhere!

Apparently this is a case where Indian and Classical mythology aren't equivalent. Not like the ages of man and the yuga, eh? Or perhaps there's a 'connection' you still have to make...

...the one with reality.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
The religion of the ancient Egyptians is known to have included sun-worship.

The 6 pointed star is an ancient sun worship symbol.

This is perhaps the oldest form of idolatry practiced by the ancients.

The 6-pointed star is not a Jewish symbol, but an Egyptian symbol which Israel adopted in the wilderness due to their apostasy.

Acts 7:37-43 “This is that Moses…to whom our fathers wold not obey, but thrust him from them, and IN THEIR HEARTS TURNED BACK AGAIN INTO EGYPT… And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifices unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the HOST OF HEAVEN: as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to Me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of FORTY YEARS IN THE WILDERNESS? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the STAR OF YOUR GOD REMPHAN, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.”

Amos 5:26-27 “But ye have born the tabernacle of your Moloch, and Chiun (Remphan) your images, the STAR OF YOUR GOD, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore, will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the Lord…” Saturn Worship

I would like to point out here that it is more likely that they took Moloch from the Ammonites. The golden calf is an idea that came out of Egypt but Moloch is a god of the Canaanites. the passage says that they "took up" Moloch while in the wilderness.

Also Amos who was a Jew was prophesying to the now-Jew northern Israelites the Ephraimites who descend from the daughter of the Egyptian house of On and Joseph, Judah's half brother. Anyway, the star in question seems to be the 4 pointed start of Chiun/Remphan not Moloch anyway, although they took on Moloch as well. I suggest that the Ephraimites brought out the 4 pointed star or 5 pointed star from Egypt and took up with Moloch later in Canaan.

As well the passage in acts refers to the House of Israel not simply the House of Judah which are mentioned as two separate houses many times over in the rest of scripture. The passage also refers to "beyond Babylon". The Jews were in fact taken to Babylon but it was the House of Israel mentioned here that was taken "beyond Babylon" and as noted elsewhere to the place of their "nativity" which was north of Syria at the headwater of the Euphrates. Which is were Abrahams relatives settled and where Isaac and Jacob took their wives.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

It's alright to voice the assertion that you didn't receive any kind of epiphany relating to the subject, but that doesn't mean nobody else has....Which begs this question again : Are you a mind reader?

No, simply someone who thinks straight.

Dead Seraph said people who study astrology and the occult had a little epiphany when they saw a hexagon on Saturn. I am one of those people. I had no epiphany. Therefore the statement is incorrect.

To disprove a general assertion, it is only necessary to disprove it in one instance.

Here we go again. Can people please READ about how things work before making 2+2 = 100billion !

The hexagonal shape is a well known, documented, reproducible form in moving fluids. These forms are seen in storms , liquid sugar , basalt (ie lava).

The island of Staffa in Scotland and the Giants Causeway in Ireland consist of columns of hexagonal basalt.

We have many photos of the eye of earth storms with hexagons.

The suprise is that a storm on Saturn shows the same behaviour NOT that whoooo spooky a hexagon.