Russian neo-Nazi ‘Occupy’ group tortures LGBT youths

reply to post by Jumadax

It's quite a strange video at first, because it begins with a conversation.
However, it quickly descends into something political, as "Hitler" is mentioned, and cult-like love bombing turns into homophobic intimidation, although the age of consent is 16.
At the beginning I'd have hoped they'd give him some information on HIV and STDs, or the risks involved in prostitution, for both young men and women.
Considering the increasing infection rates in Russia that could have been a short and salient discussion, but instead they try to shame him through gender stereotyping, and his apparent deviance from patriarchy.
They just try to mock him and intimidate him, and his stoic frankness (or forced confessions - somebody seems to be busy holding something to the back of his neck constantly) becomes increasingly heroic.

Although they may have prevented a crime with a pederast "uncle" (who doesn't exist, and the gang invented as bait) it seems unlikely that becoming an "athlete" in a neo-Nazi gang is a recipe for a long, productive and healthy life, and clearly the gang is also being manipulated by a (criminal) adult.
www.truthwinsout.org...

Ultimately people who humiliate others also humiliate themselves.
One wonders what must really be going on behind the scenes of such political cults, where adults recruit underage kids, and have them incriminate themselves on film.
Clearly the kids doing the torture here also claim to be 15 (I suppose that prevents adult criminal charges for their crimes).

Judging by what I've seen and heard from Germany by documentaries, having a youngster recruited by neo-Nazi gangs is absolutely devastating and detrimental to families.

Anyway, here's a case from South Africa, where a youngster was virtually tortured to death on a game ranging camp because the camp leader thought he was too effeminate, and wanted to change him from being a "moffie" (faggot) into being a "real man":
www.truthwinsout.org...

In Russia it appears these are simply trophy videos to demonstrate the power and tacit "support" (or power of intimidation) these groups already have to act with impunity.

It's known that fascists will go after the most obvious out-groups first, and when they come for others that disagree it may be too late.

reply to post by Rocker2013


It's also rearing its ugly head in France via Generation Identitaire and in Greece via the Golden Dawn. I believe there is also a similar group in Spain but not 100% certain and can't recollect the name. Overall, the National Democratic Party in countries across Europe are getting a little surge in membership. I'd also hazard that, across the pond here in the US, it's been rather similar albeit the animosity isn't being directed at the LGBT community (considering the recent DOMA decision) but at immigrants in general. In the US in the 1930's, a similar response occurred as is what is occurring now that resulted in the expulsion of both legal and illegal immigrants in the US, particularly those of Hispanic origin. So definitely, hatred towards minority groups and economic desperation are tied hand in hand.

reply to post by sonnny1


Hate crimes is not a real thing, sorry bud.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

You are absolutely correct, far-right opinions increase in times of economic hardship, there are examples of this happening in various places sine the birth of the Nazis in Germany.

It increased in the 70's and 80's in the UK, and is coming back again, it's been on the rise in Germany over the last five years, we're seeing it taking a stronger hold in the former USSR now.

Whenever there is hardship in a society, people look to vent using religion, class, race and sexuality, attacking each other rather than face the real problems. The problems are blamed on a recognizable minority group within the society, and often one that the powerful want to be rid of too.

This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better, and although our own countries are nowhere near that level of violence, we are not immune to it either.

Here is a question for everyone here at what point has it become ok to bash white people, Blame them for all of societies problems, alienate them, take away their voice in matters of race, Politically silence them, Say they have no home no country?

Here in america almost all of the above is true, in Europe they are forced to take in large amounts of Muslims, They call it multiculturalism when there is nothing multicultural about it. Politician seize the moment ignore the population and flood the country with people who abuse and hate white people, these immigrants then force onto the public rules and regulations that are unnecessary and only favor the new immigrants.

White people are beginning to be alienated ignored and all together treated as second class citizens in their own countries and yet people are surprised when neo- nazism is on the raise. Even if its wrong society is creating the need for it. the propaganda, the white guilt, the forced servitude to other foreigners who hate white people and hate the country they live in. Who are the young white youth going to turn too when they are told it's all their fault for the problems of today, That they are privileged to be white when the reality is glaringly incorrect in this day and age? Clearly they are going go against their own oppression, against the guilt imposed on them, against the foreigners who burn their countries flags while waving the flag of the country they fled.

If your reading this as a message to become a neo nazi you have me all wrong I'm simply stating facts that many European and american white people see everyday and while many claim its the politicians fault, The MSN's fault, The history is at fault lol While not checking how the immigrants actually treat the white population in general.

I remember when Russia first put these policies in place and multiple Ameriacans congratulated them for it. Didn't work out so well did it?

Originally posted by Rochester
As vile as we might find this - it is after all their country and culture.

Originally posted by Rochester
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

"They have no right...." according to who - you? Have you even been to Russia or any of the other former Soviet republics? Have you personally spoken to the people in the region?

My point is that if you are not there and only gleaning your information from a website that covers the story from the liberal angle, you might not have the complete picture.

I can tell you that religion is a huge part of their culture now, something they did not have before. If they choose to ignore this behavior, it is because the majority agree that this is something they do not want in their society. The Christian Orthodox Religion (prevalent in the former USSR republics) is an enormous part of their society now.

And again, who are we to tell them how they should behave and how they should treat people?

Originally posted by Rochester
These "children" are answering adds. This is on them - not the Russian society as a whole.

This is a small group doing what they feel is right according to the culture they are living in.

Sorry persons, but it realy worries me that members of a website like ATS could write nonsense like the above.

You know why the teenagers are answering adverts? Because you're not allowed to act gay in public in Russia. If this is okay to you, then so is stoning rape victims, beheading apostates of Islam, and owning slaves. I mean they chose top be a slave right? I mean this is the same logic that says 'gay men are immoral, they have sex in toilets!' after 2000 years of persecuting them from public life.

If you're American, you live in a Republic which was designed to stop the majority carrying out this type of nonsense. It is the whole point of your system of government. If you believe in majority rules, dog eat dog, then why don't you apply for citizenship over there? Just pray that the day where your particular demographic isn't on the wrong side of 'culture' and getting black bagged in a panel van and dressed as a clown for the world to see.

reply to post by digital01anarchy


Bigotry exists in every race and the last time I checked, LGBT wasn't a race.

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

Hatred and acts of violence against those who are LGBT wouldn't be defined as racism. LGBT are of every race, religion, of every class, and every socioeconomic status. Heck, some of them are probably disabled, too. What these teens were beaten for wasn't the color of their skin or any of those things. It was for their sexual orientation. That isn't racism. That's bigotry. Bigotry would also be the term that would apply to those who are targeted for their religion.

The reason why minority groups get targeted so heavily is because they are, in fact, minority groups. In a sense, they are already quasi "outsiders" to the majority society for any of the above reasons. It's why you don't see a whole lot done about teen boys kicking or punching a homeless guy on the street. Homeless guy could be black or white but that isn't the reason why they punched him. They punch him because they feel or perhaps even know that they can "get away with it" in our society.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


The symptoms you are seeing are the result of what I spoke about. The youth are latching on a hate group due to the situation happening around the world in what used to be majority white countries. Most know what neo-Nazi's believe in if you look at what the Nazi of the past believed.

heres the link from wikipedia

Russian neo-Nazis are characterized by racism, antisemitism, homophobia, Islamophobia and extreme xenophobia towards people from Asia.[66] Their ideology centers on defending Russian national identity against what they perceive as a takeover by minority groups such as Jews,homosexuals, Central Asians, Roma people and Muslims.



and I took out Caucasians from their hate list which doesn't make any damn sense considering the name literally came from their own country and describes their race of people but I guess it could mean Caucasians from other regions which would make sense "xenophobia" I'm going to leave that as a questionable statement by wikipedia

Originally posted by digital01anarchy
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

Both you and the poster above me are not understanding what i actually said so I will simplify it for you, The symptoms you are seeing are the result of what I spoke about. The youth are latching on a hate group due to the situation happening around the world in what used to be majority white countries. Most know what neo-Nazi's believe in if you look at what the Nazi of the past believed.

Not sure if you phrased it properly but the statement "what used to be majority white countries", are you implying that Russia is no longer white in its majority? Last I checked, it still is. The Neo-Nazis in Russia are, in fact, targeting what would largely be ethnic groups, which are ethnic groups. That's bigotry. I didn't say that there wasn't a racist component to their activities. However, the subject of this thread is "LGBT youths" as their target. That's still bigotry.

Russian neo-Nazis are characterized by racism, antisemitism, homophobia, Islamophobia and extreme xenophobia towards people from Asia.[66] Their ideology centers on defending Russian national identity against what they perceive as a takeover by minority groups such as Jews,homosexuals, Central Asians, Roma people and Muslims.

Not arguing that, if you re-read it again, you'll see that that conversation was about just that exact kind of behavior developing with any minority group in times of economic desperation. In this specific case, it was LGBT teens that were tortured.

Maybe next time you both should actually read up on what neo-nazi in that region believe before commenting and blaming religion or knocking down others comments because you dont like the tone of what they are saying.

I absolutely know what Neo Nazis are. Generation Identitaire actually has very similar targets although without the more regional to Moscow/Russia components.

You said this in the post that I responded to:

Here is a question for everyone here at what point has it become ok to bash white people, Blame them for all of societies problems, alienate them, take away their voice in matters of race, Politically silence them, Say they have no home no country?

Here in america almost all of the above is true, in Europe they are forced to take in large amounts of Muslims, They call it multiculturalism when there is nothing multicultural about it. Politician seize the moment ignore the population and flood the country with people who abuse and hate white people, these immigrants then force onto the public rules and regulations that are unnecessary and only favor the new immigrants.

I don't think you'd really want me to respond to that but I would say that a sharp re-reading of what Rocker and I were talking about would most likely be appropriate.

and I took out Caucasians from their hate list which doesn't make any damn sense considering the name litterally came from their own country and desribes their race of people en.wikipedia.org...

The name for the Caucasian race as it is known, of which is in the majority across Europe, Russia, the MIddle East, Northern Africa, and the US, and actually originates from the Caucus region. The people of Caucus are Caucasian in race as they were the people that inspired the the term via Christoph Meiners in the 18th Century. So the majority of Middle Eastern peoples are actually Caucasian and well, the Caucasian are Caucasian. People tend to make the mistake of equating the idea of what makes someone Caucasian as having to do with the color of their eyes, skin, or hair. In reality, the distinctions between race have more to do with the skull and nothing to do with the color of skin. The three "original" race names were Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid. And btw, Central Asians, another target for hate by Russian Neo-Nazi's are also technically Caucasian....It's all about the skulls.

Originally posted by DocHolidaze


Hate crimes is not a real thing, sorry bud.

Would like to hear why you believe so.


Ive seen them first hand actually.

If you open a History book, you can see HATE as being a motivator for MANY crimes and atrocities done by man on their fellow man. People do Hate. People do commit crimes because of it. Its on the books in MANY countries.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by DocHolidaze


Hate crimes is not a real thing, sorry bud.

Would like to hear why you believe so.


Ive seen them first hand actually.

If you open a History book, you can see HATE as being a motivator for MANY crimes and atrocities done by man on their fellow man. People do Hate. People do commit crimes because of it. Its on the books in MANY countries.

Normally i would never tell anyone to watch south park to explain anything but it does a very good job of explaining hate crime logic
heres a link www.southparkstudios.com...

reply to post by digital01anarchy


Since we are sharing videos, let me give you one, and ask your perspective on it.



www.pbs.org...






South Park shows the hypocrisy sometimes used when it comes to "crimes" in General.

With the story of Fred, you can see what Hate is.

Guys this is NAZIs we have them here too, white man's jihadists only a lot less smart that any terrorist(thank GOD).
Any Nazi is going to commit evil behavior.It's a given,Russians aren't all Nazis,Communists or ex KGB just the leadership.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
Guys this is NAZIs we have them here too, white man's jihadists only a lot less smart that any terrorist(thank GOD).
Any Nazi is going to commit evil behavior.It's a given,Russians aren't all Nazis,Communists or ex KGB just the leadership.

Have to say that that is the best comparison that I've seen yet. What it comes down to is rabid, vicious, and bestial hate that incites acts of evil. Any group is capable of spawning that, really when you think about it.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
Guys this is NAZIs we have them here too, white man's jihadists only a lot less smart that any terrorist(thank GOD).
Any Nazi is going to commit evil behavior.It's a given,Russians aren't all Nazis,Communists or ex KGB just the leadership.

You know that`s what has let them breed for so long right ? saying they`re not smart tends to make people think they`re not important , and if they`re not important they get left alone .

reply to post by AthiestJesus


Here they are effectively shunned and seen as the stupid factions they are.If I knew one I would turn on the person in a heart beat.My father lost friends to those filth and I'll not forget it.

Originally posted by digital01anarchy

White people are beginning to be alienated ignored and all together treated as second class citizens in their own countries

Whites are immigrants in the US though. It's not their country.

And white households' median income is TWENTY TIMES that of black households in America. Whites live on average 10-12 years longer. They are far more likely to go to college and have higher paid jobs,and they are much less likely to be victims of crimes.

SoI don't really see how white people are anywhere even near second on the pile in the US.

the propaganda, the white guilt, the forced servitude to other foreigners who hate white people and hate the country they live in.

Forced servitude? That's extraordinary terminology, straight from the neo-nazi handbook. How about an example of it?

Who are the young white youth going to turn too when they are told it's all their fault for the problems of today, That they are privileged to be white when the reality is glaringly incorrect in this day and age?

In almost every country in the world it's luckier to be born white. That's simple fact.

Originally posted by digital01anarchy

I took out Caucasians from their hate list which doesn't make any damn sense considering the name literally came from their own country and describes their race of people but I guess it could mean Caucasians from other regions which would make sense "xenophobia"

It means people from the Caucasus.

Sorry for the block quote in advance but ...

Originally posted by digital01anarchy
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

The symptoms you are seeing are the result of what I spoke about. The youth are latching on a hate group due to the situation happening around the world in what used to be majority white countries.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco
Whites are immigrants in the US though. It's not their country.

And white households' median income is TWENTY TIMES that of black households in America. Whites live on average 10-12 years longer. They are far more likely to go to college and have higher paid jobs,and they are much less likely to be victims of crimes.

SoI don't really see how white people are anywhere even near second on the pile in the US.

It's interesting to read these comments since they're both so deeply intwined in identity. One side wants change, and the other wants everything to stay the same; both in my mind are drawing lines in the sand for conflict.

I'm just wondering about the basis thought ... Being white is a skin color from where you're born on the equator. It is not a nationality, ideology, philosophy, political movement, or anything of the sort. I don't see how you can hold white people responsible for all ills, or anything productive that can be said about it. Repeat this phrase with the word 'black people' in it.

I also don't think this is driven by minority groups pushing white persons around. Russians are acting out against groups the percieve hostile to their economy and identity (including white people!).

Read about Rwanda:

Rwandan Genocide
Rwandan Patriotic Front

Nationalism and genocide without a single white person in sight, and a lack of minority groups? When a group or two groups or multiple groups cling to an identity and hold that the only possible resolution is violent conflict these things happen.

I suppose the point I'm getting at is it just seems this event is being politicized when the correct response is ... this is wrong and thats it. Poverty is a factor, national identity is a factor, but it is wrong ... that's all.

This is just how I feel about it, but life is so much simpler on a decision by decision basis when you don't let political groups hold your hand and walk around with you while you do it.

This message was authorized by the Committee of Frogs for the Pinke political party in Canberra.

Originally posted by Pinke


I'm just wondering about the basis thought ... Being white is a skin color from where you're born on the equator. It is not a nationality, ideology, philosophy, political movement, or anything of the sort. I don't see how you can hold white people responsible for all ills, or anything productive that can be said about it. Repeat this phrase with the word 'black people' in it.

I'm not really getting what you mean. I didn't post the facts above to posit blame, merely to refute the notion that white people are being marginalised, or are poised to become some kind of second-class citizens.

What I wrote above is true. It is either true because

- black people are somehow unable to compete with white people, either because they are stupid and feckless or for some other reason

or

- black people's socio-economic situation is the result of a historical racial bias against them.


Personally I think it's the second. And no amount of people on this forum telling me that actually blacks are the real racists and everything would be fine now if they would just consign prejudice to the past is going to make me change my mind.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco
I'm not really getting what you mean. I didn't post the facts above to posit blame, merely to refute the notion that white people are being marginalised, or are poised to become some kind of second-class citizens.

You said:

Originally posted by JuniorDisco
And white households' median income is TWENTY TIMES that of black households in America. Whites live on average 10-12 years longer. They are far more likely to go to college and have higher paid jobs,and they are much less likely to be victims of crimes.

SoI don't really see how white people are anywhere even near second on the pile in the US.

I bolded the bit that I think I messed up. My English reading can be a bit poop sometimes ahaha

I can see this sentence has two meanings now; real one and perhaps one Pinke invented.

And whilst I agree with you to an extent ... I'd say that blacks persons have had a historical bias against them thats turned into a world of hurt on both sides. Its for another thread though.

Danke for clarifying.