Woman Education in Islam

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by logical7

 

Address the issues. YOU set the theme of this thread. Womens education in Islam.
So address the issues I presented. You can start with Iran barring women from being
able to get degrees in higher paying fields (math, science, engineering) because of
religious reasons. Start with that one ....

religion of course is an ideology and it has it's own coordinates. every ideology has it's own coordinates.
but media just try to exaggerate or alter news to highlight their points for political purposes.
you said "Iran barring women from being able to get degrees in higher paying fields (math, science, engineering)" this is not true. at least not the way you think. political issues always overshadows such news. especially about Iran. for example they say that many gays are executed, or women are banned from education or ...... every little rumor gets bigger and bigger like a bunch of snow and it changes to avalanche in the media. and people may believe that because it is Iran and they claim that they are implementing Sharia law.
just to show the other side of the coin.

William O. Beeman-2001
I traveled to Iran recenty for the first time in many years. The most surprising development for me was to see clearly that, contrary to American belief, women in the Islamic Republic are better off today than they were under the Pahlavi regime.
www.brown.edu...

Women make up more than 65 percent of Iranian university students with some fields in science and engineering having more than 70 percent of their alumni be women.[18] The opportunities for women education and their involvement in higher education has grown exponentially after the Iranian Revolution.[18] According to UNESCO world survey, Iran has the highest female to male ratio at primary level of enrollment in the world among sovereign nations, with a girl to boy ratio of 1.22 : 1.00.[19]. en.wikipedia.org...

The dual role and responsibility of the post-revolutionary woman is clearly
reflected in the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The latter “considers
women’s employment and their social and economic activities to be very meaningful and
conducive to social well-being” while, at the same time, emphasizing the role of the
woman “as a mother and her significance in maintaining strong family bonds and
affectionate relationships” unesdoc.unesco.org...

the other side of the coin is that women had a great role in that revolution. of course not from a secular perspective.

Originally posted by maes2
you said "Iran barring women from being able to get degrees in higher paying fields (math, science, engineering)" this is not true.

It is true. I posted the information from NOW.
The information you posted was from 2001.
Iran is moving backwards. They used to be moving forwards.
That was when they were more secular.
Now they are embracing stricter religious ideals.
It's bad for women ... bad for Iran ... just plain bad.

reply to post by FlyersFan

The MUSLIM countries and MUSLIM groups rejected it because ... non-violence against women is un-islamic.

Maybe you'd like to back that up with an Islamic source that states that very thing. If you can't then that statement gets rendered invalid.

When women are abused in the USA it's not because of religion .. unlike what happens in Islamic countries.

So in your world, its A-OK for men to rape and abuse women as long as its for a reason other than religion. Ok, got it.

For the rest of us, abuse is abuse... and rape is rape. Men who abuse women in both the US and muslim countries do it because they both share the same misogynistic personality traits.

The lesson here is that Islam is NOT a wonderland for women

Neither is your country... but wait, there's no religion involved, so its ok, I guess.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The MUSLIM countries and MUSLIM groups rejected it because ... non-violence against women is un-islamic.

Maybe you'd like to back that up with an Islamic source that states that very thing. If you can't then that statement gets rendered invalid.

Already did. Both the country of Kuwait and The Muslim Brotherhood rejected it because Non-Violence Against Women is un-islamic. that was THEIR WORDS. ETA .. also your Sharia buddy here said the Non-Violence Against Women is un-islamic.

So in your world, its A-OK for men to rape and abuse women as long as its for a reason other than religion. Ok, got it.

Straw man absurdium. Grow up.

Neither is your country... but wait, there's no religion involved, so its ok, I guess.

You are being obtuse.

Logical started a thread with the intent of .... Islam = Good for women and the West = Bad for women. The posts here were proving that statement wrong. No amount of deflection, or straw men statements, or misrepresentation of the facts, or attempts by you to rewrite the reasons for those posts will change that.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Already did. Both the country of Kuwait and The Muslim Brotherhood rejected it because Non-Violence Against Women is un-islamic. that was THEIR WORDS. ETA .. also your Sharia buddy here said the Non-Violence Against Women is un-islamic.

NOT true
thats yours and the article/source you used biased INTERPRETATION!

The Brotherhood rejected some parts of a declaration as un-islamic. Not the non-violence againt women as un-islamic.
The parts rejected included respecting prostitutes, we muslims respect women and not let them become prostitutes. We do not use their misery and condition and give them a license to sell their respect.

It also included abortion and muslims don't do it unless it is to save the life of the mother and not just because an unplanned accident happened that should not affect a woman's career etc!

The part that you mentioned had nothing to do with condoning violence.
The part rejected was a provision for prosecution of rape within marriage. The idea is very western and odd.
Sharia already has laws that protect a woman from an abusive husband etc
but what these smartly designed declaration does is promote individualism even among a couple and weaken the family.
You do know that and even agree that sexual relations should be within marriage only. So its a very personal matter and giving a woman right by law to reject her husband's wish is only going to break families.
Its the same like saying a man can refuse to sit and listen when his wife has an emotional need to talk about her problems.
Very crudely and objective the husband can do it but then he wouldn't be a good husband, the same is true for the wife.
Muslims don't like laws that makes a beautiful relationship into just a selfish individualistic partnership!

Also can you clear which Sharia buddy of Sk0rpie said that non violence against women is un-islamic?

reply to post by logical7

You do know that and even agree that sexual relations should be within marriage only. So its a very personal matter and giving a woman right by law to reject her husband's wish is only going to break families.

That is asinine. A husband does NOT have the right to force his wife to have sex with him - which is what "rape within marriage" is!! There is NO WAY you can say 'men need sex' - and compare it to 'women insisting on emotional support.'

RAPE is, by definition, FORCING SEX on a woman, whether you're married to her or not it's STILL RAPE, and it's WRONG! What the hell is wrong with you??!!

Originally posted by logical7
thats yours and the article/source you used biased INTERPRETATION!

Al-Arabyia and Kuwaiti News (from Kuwait) are NOT anti-Muslim.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

You do know that and even agree that sexual relations should be within marriage only. So its a very personal matter and giving a woman right by law to reject her husband's wish is only going to break families.

That is asinine. A husband does NOT have the right to force his wife to have sex with him - which is what "rape within marriage" is!! There is NO WAY you can say 'men need sex' - and compare it to 'women insisting on emotional support.'

RAPE is, by definition, FORCING SEX on a woman, whether you're married to her or not it's STILL RAPE, and it's WRONG! What the hell is wrong with you??!!

i know what rape is and i am not advocating that its ok if a husband does it. I am just saying that its not very wise to make laws that push people to break relationships.

Tell me, do you agree that if a wife refuses sex then the husband can go and get it elsewhere? Or Then he would be a digusting man.
Isn't exactly that whats happening in the West in considerable amount?
In Islam adultery is a sin but if a wife does not want physical relation with her husband then she should be fine with him marry another woman too. Right?

I understand abuse but rape in marriage?? It does not make sense!

Marriage serves few purpose in Islam and in general if you care to think.
One of its purpose is to provide peace and tranquility to the couple through the company of each other.
Another one in Islam is to provide a sexual outlet so that the married ones don't seek it sinfully and ruin themselves spiritually and morally.

Obviously in the West the only thing that is seen before seeking sexual outlet is that both(or more) parties are consenting adults! Which is disgusting!

I mentioned the example of emotional need because just as a husband is expected to listen even if he doesn't like it so that he is considered good. A wife also should be considerate about her husband's needs, thats what makes a good relationship.

Otherwise it could be all laws and contracts and pre-nuptials that would make sure that each one gets what they want.
In short if my wife has a right by law to accuse me of rape and then consistently refuses me then i have no way but to sign a pre-nuptial that if i am refused i have a right to seek it from someone else!

Another very big problem with that law, wouldn't it be just her testimony that would count?
Would they install cameras in every house to make sure if the charge is true
and if there is physical hurt etc then there are laws already that deal with abuse. Right?
So pushing a useless law just to make women feel empowered in a twisted feministic way is just sick and damaging to family life.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by logical7
thats yours and the article/source you used biased INTERPRETATION!

Al-Arabyia and Kuwaiti News (from Kuwait) are NOT anti-Muslim.

this is the title of the article from kuwaiti news

Islamic states frown on Islam- opposing paragraphs of UNHCR violence against women resolution

here's the link
there is a big difference in disagreeing with certain parts and stating that Muslim countries, therefore Islam is against non-violence for women.
Tell me, do you think prostitution should be encouraged and licensed to make it a trade and have corporate pimps and so on?
If you reject that part are you against the declaration and by your own lovely logic against women?

Do you think that in a marriage a woman should have the only say about having kids etc and a husband nothing? Completely tied down by laws! No sex, no right to have a say in having kids, who is he exactly?
Is that an equal relationship? I see it as over compensation by feminist who basically delude themselves that they are helping women.
If a man sees what he is getting into is not in his favour not even just then he won't get into it and then he'l go to prostitutes which the declaration also insists on becoming a respectable profession! Or so easily available women who are not afraid to enjoy their sexuality just like men
You think Muslims want all the above Godless sickness!
Please just keep the filth away!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

You do know that and even agree that sexual relations should be within marriage only. So its a very personal matter and giving a woman right by law to reject her husband's wish is only going to break families.

That is asinine. A husband does NOT have the right to force his wife to have sex with him - which is what "rape within marriage" is!! There is NO WAY you can say 'men need sex' - and compare it to 'women insisting on emotional support.'

RAPE is, by definition, FORCING SEX on a woman, whether you're married to her or not it's STILL RAPE, and it's WRONG!

I have mostly heard this on ATS and in the western media. it was odd for me too. I think it is because of difference in culture or definition.
so can a man or woman who can not fulfill it's legal sexual need, complain from his or her spouse in a court in west.
is there any way other than divorce.
because in cultures who are based on Islam women do not have to work but they should fulfill the legal sexual needs of men. however women have a right for sexual relationship and they can complain in a court too. but men are regarded needier.
does marriage bring about any sexual right in west. I mean from a legal point of view.

reply to post by logical7


YAY! Muslim women can get an education! Now if only the Muslim nations would let women drive a car to get to that university.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by logical7

 

YAY! Muslim women can get an education! Now if only the Muslim nations would let women drive a car to get to that university.

Muslim women drive cars freely except in Saudi. Now only if USA stopped protecting the saud royals and their dictatorship then those rules could be kicked away but who cares about it till there is oil, when that runs dry then they would be attacked for the noble cause of liberating woman
i always wonder how can there be people who eat that all up and look up dreamy eyes for more!
btw just a little fact, saudi arabia has universities for women.