Woman Education in Islam

Originally posted by logical7
Muslims respect their women.

:shk: Islam is not special in it's treatment of women. As a whole, Muslims aren't any better toward women than other groups. In fact, it can be said that Islam is worse in many areas ... .

Imam - Allah says to beat your women
"non violent" Imam beats his wife bloody while quoting the Qu'ran
Again ... Imam calls on muslims to beat their wives
Human Rights Watch .. Muslim Women Abused in Saudi Arabia
Arabian Business - Saudi Women Denied Basic Human Rights
Saudi Arabia ... 1 in 6 women abused
Amnesty International - Women abused in Indonesia
Abuse of Women in Jakarta
Indonesia - Exploitation and Abuse of Women
Iran - Abuses against women rising
Amnesty International - Human Rights Abuses in Iran - Women
Islam Awareness and Wife Abuse
For Some Muslim Wives, Abuse Know no Border
Abuse of Muslim Women is Greater than Reported - Advocacy Group
Abused Muslim Women in the US Gain Advocates
etc etc etc

And here is a lovely story ... ...
United Nations Muslim States Reject Ban on Violence Against Women as Violating Islamic Law
From the Kuwait News Agency

GENEVA, June 14 (KUNA) -- Islamic member states of the United Nations Council for Human Rights (UNHCR) rejected on Friday paragraphs violating the Islamic law in the council's resolution on the elimination of all forms of violence against women, noting that the member states must make sure that their laws and national policies are consistent with the rejected demands.

The rejections include the paragraph, which gives women "the right to control matters concerning their sexual lives as well as their reproductive health without coercion, discrimination or violence." They also rejected the paragraph that allows performing judicial proceedings in cases of rape within marriage, the abolition of provisions that require the matching of certificates and allow the rapist to escape prosecution by marrying him to his victim as well as subduing victims of sexual violence to prosecution for moral crimes or slander.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by logical7

 

I would assume if women were educated properly in muslim societies for over a thousand years... there probably would have been some sort of intervention or uprising against the treatment of their gender...

Or is it possible they are actually educated to believe they are second class citizens?

only the west thinks of them as 2nd class citizens because of its own ridiculous parameters of equality of sexes.
Muslim women know they are women and have no overt need to compete with men for the sake of displaying "equality". equality is an attitude and not a show to rub it in a man's face!
Throwing off the hijab does not equate to liberation and wearing it does not mean oppression.
Its a narrow minded western view which tries to define values and dressing for all and majority here are westerner. GO FIGURE!

Originally posted by logical7
only the west thinks of them as 2nd class citizens

Really? Go read the links provided, educated yourself, and get back to us. Especially the one where Kuwait rejects the United Nations Statement on Violence Against Women because ... drumroll ... it goes against Islam. That's right .. Kuwait wants women to be forced to marry their rapists and to spend their lives married to the violent sicko who attacked her ... all so the man can 'get off' without charges. That's beyond disgusting.

because of its own ridiculous parameters of equality of sexes.

Dude .. simply put ... you are deluded

reply to post by FlyersFan

Kuwait rejects the United Nations Statement on Violence Against Women because ... drumroll ... it goes against Islam.

Kuwait rejects, right? Yes the reason is that it goes against Islam!
You obviously have no reason to actually find if thats true as your purpose is already served. You got food for you mind and confirmation about your already held views against Islam. So lucky you got born in the just right society with the correct religion and values except a few minor problems!
I am happy for you and the bubble you are in

reply to post by logical7

Muslim women know they are women and have no overt need to compete with men for the sake of displaying "equality". equality is an attitude and not a show to rub it in a man's face!

Right... they "know their place" is basically what you just stated...

It seems muslim women in the east are forced into a mothering homemaker position... but what if its against their will?

What if a woman wants to compete with a man for equality in the business world... or any other male dominated role in your society?

What if a woman chooses to be a single mother in your society? Would it be possible for said woman to take care of herself and her child without a man around? And free of persecution?

What if a woman wanted to hold her mans hand in public instead of walking behind him? Is that allowed?

A muslimah speaking for herself
muslimmatters.org...

Originally posted by logical7
A muslimah speaking for herself
muslimmatters.org...

That's from an American muslim

I would rather hear about eastern society... Where its muslim not secular law...

considering these threads always seem to be about the west vs east

Originally posted by logical7
Kuwait rejects, right? Yes the reason is that it goes against Islam!

Exactly ... the 'No violence against women' .... goes against Islam.
Islam is inherently violent against women.
Kuwait forces rape victims to marry the rapists.
A life of forced marriage with the man who violently raped her ...
That's NOT men treating women right. It's disgusting.
And yet you dare lie and say this ...

Originally posted by logical7
Muslims respect their women.

I JUST PROVED YOU WRONG. AGAIN.

A muslimah speaking for herself
muslimmatters.org...

reply to post by logical7

Retract your statement 'muslims respect their women' ...
or admit that you are ignoring the overwhelming facts that prove you wrong.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by Hecate666

 

the other is a DRAWING of a pretty muslim girl and the rather ironic fact that at some time in their past women were treated better than now.

there is a drawing because cameras weren't invented back then and a muslimah(muslim women) started a university about a 1000years before the west even realised the need for educating women.
A muslim scholar who has a religious school of thought by his name Abu Hanifa(Hanafi school of jurisprudence) is known by his daughter's name who was herself a scholar, Abu Hanifa(Father of Hanifa)
Ayesha r.a. Wife of Muhammad pbuh is considered the most learned scholar in religion and Caliph Umar r.a. asked her advice in matters of dispute.
The trend of high importance to women education continued till islam was followed how it should have been.
So muslims insist on going back to islamic fundamentals and teachings to solve the problems that affect the muslim world now.

i respect the way you defend your faith logical.
must not be so easy for you in the lions den.

look please
im tired; very

i wont go into the reflex of christianity vs muslim

...i only know, that Female is Mistreated most badly
both in islamim and christianism.

both desire to rule her
- indifferent whatever theological excuses are used for that.

Look at your inside
and see, that SHE is your own inside.

we males think that our own feelings should be met
but i tell you
nothing more sexy as to feel the feelings of your own girl
nothing more sexy

- both christianity as well as islam completely are Off at this basic point

they do nothing but construct rules for male to rule
by force
or by smartness

yes i know: only a tender female will be able to start this gap

...but doesnt scripture say ' that is why a male will have to serve her, to make her that gorgious"?
without spot or wrinkle ?

reply to post by FlyersFan

Yep .. I'm sure you wish he had not started the thread because those who would 'be attracted' to this thread will come with facts and figures

You mean "facts" and "figures" as derived from worst case scenarios, as has been demonstrated in this thread?

One could just as well post the "worst" of Christianity - modern day witch burnings, acid exorcisms on children, lynchings....etc. and claim that these horrific acts are representative of Christianity.

I just don't stoop to that level of idiocy.

reply to post by spartacus699

Yes Islam really puts women first in there culture. They know how to treat their women with dignity and respect.... hmmmm lets see.....

Do you feel modern day witch burnings, lynchings and acid attacks on children as carried out by Christians in certain parts of the world.... representative of Christianity?

Are those examples of Christian "love" and "tolerance"? No? Then I guess Muslims can feel the same about what you claim is representative of Islam.

The muslim countries today are not true muslim countries as they say they, because they do not follow Quran and Sunnah.
And you can not compare modern 20th century thinking in America where they we felt war in own home since like forever with people who are constantly at war.
I mean seriously guys If you lived in a society where there was peace for so long and compared it to places which has savagery going on you would expect completely different results.
Not every women is oppressed and oppression of women goes on this country but passively. I mean if we think about its not Islam that's oppressing its followers its actual people and their own desires.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
You mean "facts" and "figures" as derived from worst case scenarios, as has been demonstrated in this thread?

So ... the ENTIRE COUNTRY OF KUWAIT rejecting the United Nations 'No Violence Against Women' statement because it 'goes against Islam' is just a 'worst case scenario, eh? No dude .. it's the whole damn country stating that Islam is inherently violent against women and that it won't change.

One in six women in Saudi Arabia is abused. That's not a small 'worst case scenario. That's a major portion of the female population.

Every day, on average one girls school is burned down in Afghanistan and students/teachers are murdered .. in the name of Islam. Tha'ts not a small 'worst case scenario'. That's an entire country having that problem.

I just don't stoop to that level of idiocy.

Riiiight .. facts that you don't like are 'idiocy' ....
Here's another one for you

Your Sharia Law advocate buddy started a thread trying to paint Islam as some utopia for women.
That's a load of crap. It's no better than any other religion when it comes to treatment of women.
And ... like in the case of the country of Kuwait and it's rejection of 'non violence toward women' ...
it's worse.

reply to post by FlyersFan

So ... the ENTIRE COUNTRY OF KUWAIT rejecting the United Nations 'No Violence Against Women' statement because it 'goes against Islam' is just a 'worst case scenario, eh

Has your country accepted that UN statement of "No Violence Against Women"?
So does it make your country the safest place for women?
These statistics, based on UN data seem to suggest otherwise.

One in six women in Saudi Arabia is abused. That's not a small 'worst case scenario. That's a major portion of the female population.

1 in 6 women in the US are raped according to U.S. Department of Justice.
link

So get off your high horse and enroll yourself in some self defense classes.

The lesson is that anybody can use statistics to project anything about any people or group. So don't waste your time on this silliness.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Also, what about modern day witch burnings, acid exorcisms on children, lynchings....etc.? You didn't seem to want to address that for some reason. Are those Christian facts that you don't like, or is it that you agree that those acts are representative of Christianity?

double : please remove

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Has your country accepted that UN statement of "No Violence Against Women"?

The United States Accepts the United Nations Statement of 'No Violence Against Women'. The MUSLIM countries and MUSLIM groups rejected it because ... non-violence against women is un-islamic. That's right. They used their religion as the reason to continue to abuse women.

According to the Muslim Brotherhood .. violence against women is a major part of the Islamic family. The whole muslim world will fall apart if men aren't allowed to continue to abuse the women under the guise of 'allahs will'.
Muslim Brotherhood Rejects United Nations Statement on Rejecting Violence Against Women document

The Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood have called on all Muslim countries to reject the U.N. draft document against violence against women. The group said in a statement posted on its website that the document contains articles that ''go against Islam and the Sunnah, which will ruin Muslim morality and destroy the family''

These idiotic men think that if women are allowed to prosecute rapists ... then the entire society will fall apart. Freak'n morons.
Al Arabiya Egypts Muslim Brotherhood States UN Declaration on 'no violence toward women' Un Islamic

This declaration, if ratified, would lead to complete disintegration of society, and would certainly be the final step in the intellectual and cultural invasion of Muslim countries, eliminating the moral specificity that helps preserve cohesion of Islamic societies,” the Brotherhood’s statement claimed in an online statement on their official website.

The Brotherhood said the U.N. statement undermined Islamic ethics by calling for women to work, travel and use contraception without their husbands’ permission.

The group also denounced the statement’s call for sexual freedom, granting equal rights to homosexual people, and allowing wives full legal rights to take their husbands to court for marital rape.

Kuwait News

They also rejected the paragraph that allows performing judicial proceedings in cases of rape within marriage, the abolition of provisions that require the matching of certificates and allow the rapist to escape prosecution by marrying him to his victim as well as subduing victims of sexual violence to prosecution for moral crimes or slander.

Muslim Brotherhood Rejects Egyptian Womens Rights

n rejecting a draft UN declaration calling for an end to violence against women, the organisation's blatant misogyny is exposed

1 in 6 women in the US are raped according to U.S. Department of Justice.

When women are abused in the USA it's not because of religion .. unlike what happens in Islamic countries. Islam is used as an excuse to abuse women. It's used as an excuse to continue the abuse. IT IS REAL. The statistics of abuse of muslim women do not lie. Islam is no better than any other group when it comes to violence against women.

And then there is the fact that schools are not burned down and teachers and students aren't murdered here because girls are going to school. That happens EVERY DAY in Afghanistan. It happens FREQUENTLY around the world. And it's Muslims using Islam as the excuse to kill and destroy schools. The links were posted previously. Those are indisputable facts.

So get off your high horse and enroll yourself in some self defense classes.

Stating facts about how Islam treats women isn't 'being on a high horse'. (Muslim men sure can't handle it when well educated and strong willed women state facts that they don't like ... the can't reach me over the internet to smack me around .... how frustrating for them!!) How about you and your sharia-buddy get off your misogynistic high horses and admit that Islam isn't a utopia for women like you people try to make it out to be. Admit that it's just as bad as anyplace else on the planet.

The lesson is that anybody can use statistics to project anything about any people or group. So don't waste your time on this silliness.

WRONG. The lesson here is that Islam is NOT a wonderland for women .. women aren't 'respected' ... women are treated honorably ... and that muslim men are really afraid of losing control over the women so they keep them down using religion and violence. That is the truth. That's the lesson. LEARN IT.

reply to post by Akragon

Right... they "know their place" is basically what you just stated...

muslim men "know their place" too, why you paint the term as bad? Each individual has responsibilities and rights in a society and its better for harmony if they do things accordingly.
I stated muslim women are not ashamed to be women and are accepted as women without a need to impress or prove themselves.

It seems muslim women in the east are
forced into a mothering homemaker
position... but what if its against their
will? What if a woman wants to compete
with a man for equality in the business
world... or any other male dominated
role in your society?

a woman is free to choose. You answer me why you ask such questions? Is it not because women in west are brainwashed by feminist ideology to "prove" themselves better than a man in any field? Why is the other sex an enemy rather than a equal helper to make life easier?
A woman can choose to do business if she wants but muslim women don't have that overt need to do it to "show them"

What if a woman chooses to be a
single mother in your society? Would it
be possible for said woman to take
care of herself and her child without a
man around? And free of persecution?

what woman "chooses" to be a single mother? except hardcore brainwashed feminist?
If a muslim woman ends up as a single mother, she is helped by the society and under sharia its the state's responsibility to care for her wellbeing. She can work if she is able to and wants to but if not then her male relatives or if she has nobody then the state will provide her. The ex husband has to provide for the kid/s completely and even her if she does not have any source.

Women according to sharia law have no need to worry about food, clothing and shelter and they are free to focus on more better things, whatever they choose, education, family, motherhood etc.