MSNBC’s Chris Hayes Goes Oops Upside Bill O’Reilly’s ‘Super Racist’ Head Again

Well, with me being black and all, allow me to weigh in on this. People seem to lump all blacks into the same socio-economic category. Wrong . Just like white people have poor, middle class (if we can still call it that) and wealthy classes, so do black people. There is no ''black community'' where we all live and plot to rob everyone else and kill each other. Those jacked up stats don't mean squat to me. People of any color that lives in a community where poverty is prevalent are bound to come into contact with crime, be it victim or perpetrator. Happens in trailer parks across America, just like the '.hood'. There are people in these forums that don't like black people simply because they're black and those stats only reinforce their bigotry and they use those stats to demonize ALL black people

reply to post by Onslaught2996


I really don't think that O'Rielly's points were racist at all. They were the truth, that have been published in various MSM sources many times over the years.

But they pop up for one day and disappear into the mist the next to be ignored and forgotten. That's why people like Hayes can use these same points to point out the supposed racism and dictate who is the victim.

Maybe those two need to get to together and have a public debate...with the goal of healing, rather than division. But I don't see Hayes actually doing something like that as he would be out of a job and may have to apply at FoxNews.

reply to post by lakesidepark


Arrests by Race, 2011

WHITES
Sex offenses (except forcible rape and prostitution)
38,422
Forcible rape
9,504
Assualt, murder..etc
194,981
4,000
625,330
243,928
TOTAL = 1,116,165

BLACKS
Forcible rape
4,811
Sex offenses (except forcible rape and prostitution)
13,189
Assualt, murder..etc
4,149
102,597
157,384
304,083
TOTAL = 586,213


WHITES Under 18
Forcible rape
1,284
Sex offenses (except forcible rape and prostitution)
6,651
293
17,372
24,529
85,813
TOTAL = 135,942

BLACKS under 18
Forcible rape
753
Sex offenses (except forcible rape and prostitution)
2,739
351
753
13,176
26,854
56,467
TOTAL = 99,989

As I was checking the total amount of actual violent crimes and not including property..etc. I saw this interesting fact that O'reilly did not bring up. Since we should talk about black crime, why should we not talk about white sexual crimes, they appear to be a problem in the white community.

Originally posted by poloblack
Well, with me being black and all, allow me to weigh in on this. People seem to lump all blacks into the same socio-economic category. Wrong . Just like white people have poor, middle class (if we can still call it that) and wealthy classes, so do black people. There is no ''black community'' where we all live and plot to rob everyone else and kill each other. Those jacked up stats don't mean squat to me. People of any color that lives in a community where poverty is prevalent are bound to come into contact with crime, be it victim or perpetrator. Happens in trailer parks across America, just like the '.hood'. There are people in these forums that don't like black people simply because they're black and those stats only reinforce their bigotry and they use those stats to demonize ALL black people

Kudos to you!

The first reply that I have seen that DOES point out a different issue that is directly related to the issue being discussed (disproportionate violent death).

If Chris Hayes had done the same, and pointed out that the disproportionate number of poor in some black communities relates to the disproportionate amount of violent death, and also pointed out that where there is a poor white community, you see the same percentages of violent death as you do in the poor black communities, then I would have agreed with him, and given a star and flag to the OP.

Woohoo, someone gets it! I felt a bit uncomfortable attacking the OP as I did not want to appear racist. All I wanted to do was point out that Hayes does no more justice to solving the problem by deflecting the argument, than O'Reilly did by pointing it out, because NEITHER presented any discussion of the CAUSES of the problem nor did they propose any SOLUTIONS.

The OP still fails, as his intention was to attack O'Reilly and FOX, rather than to discuss a true problem and causes and solutions. The OP continues to divide, and that's NOT what we need to do!

Probably get flamed but what the heck,

I do agree poverty among other things is a contributor BUT what came first? culture or violence or did they degenerate hand in hand?

The urban culture bombards the youth with messages of violence hourly, daily and yearly 24/7 with the meme of easy money and easy women for the taking while imprinting the message that responsibility is for losers. In school the nail that dares stick up gets quickly pounded down in a culture that is promoting hooliganism as an aspiration rather than family, education and hard work as a way out of poverty.

It seems the plethora of race promoters harp on lack of opportunity while expecting gifts and favors to all never once in my memory mobilizing their followers to fix what is identifiably wrong in their own house. It comes right down to base human nature of blaming others for ones troubles.

Every time I see $2000 wheels on a custom painted 78' Impala I have to ask myself "this person had the money to rent or lease in a better neighborhood for their children, instead they choose the wheels"

It is about choices made, fancy cell phones and plans, big screen televisions and expensive cable bills, the latest fad in auto customization etc. etc.

A culture promoting having goods to impress your buddies over the success of making a better life for your children is bound and predictable in its abject failure.

With that said, B.O. had a point. My point is do hard work to fix community then identify and fix the real or perceived faults with wider world - as it sits its excuse after excuse after excuse not to get off butt and do something constructive.

A note for those who would deflect this into racism or say that's easy for you to claim, I grew up in the "hood" and worked several jobs - all low paying and left with $600 in my pocket at age 18 - no one here can make the claim I do not know what I talk of - sorry excuses do not fly with me as one who did what was needed.

A majority make choices and are doomed by them - cold hard reality.

reply to post by Onslaught2996


But when you break down the population by race, those numbers Skyrocket disproprtionally concerning the black population. O'Rielly pointed out the statistics. But he did fail at the same time by not pointing out where those statistics came from. Those same ststs can be boiled down pretty much to the inner city where poverty and hopeless runs rampant.

www.census.gov...

But nice try

Having read through the postings and the points that are brought up, the following can stated:


There are several points that can be pointed out in the USA, that is the problem with race relations that is ever to be solved or brought up, and all involved have valid points.

The first main problem, and it affects all of the USA is the lack of people taking personal responsibility for their actions. No one told anyone to go out and join a gang, to commit a crime, to break the law, or to do drugs. No one is forced to to that in this day and age. Perhaps if we stop blaming everything else and started to take personal responsiblity for our actions, things would start to change, instead of handing it to the government that will only make a greater mess of a bad situation. There are some situations that the government should be involved in, yet at the same time many the government should stay out of.

While we can look at history as a lesson, we do not need to live in a time where we have no real clue about how it would affect a person. Too often when people talk about racial issues, the past is brought up, slavery and Jim Crow laws. While both were terrible, many of the younger generations and even the older generations have no clue what it was like, as they either were not around in those areas, or did not directly experience such. And to use the past as an excuse for what is wrong it not the correct thing to do. Many of the states these days that did have both, have worked hard, very hard to rectify the past, but can only do so much, can only bend so much before something breaks and then what, the roles reverse? Or would we prefer to go the way of South Africa and other countries, former colonies where one group pulled out or were ousted and now they are dealing with the full roll reversal and the countries are not doing well, revenge is cold and leaves everyone unsatisfied.

There are some points, and that being of the justice system, of that I can agree, that the justice system is messed up, that it is not equal in the country and that in itself should be changed. Far too often those with money get lighter sentences than those without, that the quality of lawyers are different.

The only way that the problems are going to be changed, is if the leadership changes, that the people who are trying to change the system have to work on 2 fronts, the first is the community, by looking and saying that people have to take personal responsibility for their actions. To stop looking to the government to create solutions but for them to actually do for themselves. The other is to focus the community to create the changes in the justice system. And to focus on the future, not on the past, but on the future for all, not just one group or the other.

We all seem to be overlooking a very simple but important fact. BillO is a bloviating, narcissistic, idiot with a ring-wing bent.

Black people are never seen as individuals in the US...

But ATS is racist, I wouldn't even bother arguing with them. It is a lost cause.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Simply put "it takes one to know one"...
Your reply is simply not productive...Just like mine...

reply to post by Phoenix


It's good that you got out and made a success of yourself. But the fact is, MOST people who are born into poverty, regardless of race, don't rise above it. Most whites born in poverty stay in poverty. Most blacks born in poverty stay in poverty. Those who stay in poverty tend to be involved more in crime, as perpetrators and victims. It is also a fact that the poor white community is proportionately smaller than the poor black community. Why is that? Well, historically, whites have had more opportunities than blacks. Blacks were forced into poverty as soon as they were released as slaves. And, as I said, once you are in a poor situation, it's very hard to get out of it. It just keeps going, generation after generation.

There have been blacks who have gotten themselves out of the hood, but they are few and far between. Same with whites in their poor communities.

How do we get the blacks AND the whites out of poverty? Million dollar question. Sometimes I think people who have come from generations of poverty just can't see past it - even if you try to help them. I don't know what the answer is. I do know it will involve lots of time and multiple generations to try to affect any change.

I would say we need better schools in those poverty-stricken areas. Education is a way out. But that still requires parental involvement to succeed, and that remains a big problem. How to get parents more involved? Personally, I think we need to make it harder to become a parent, or easier to NOT become a parent. So many people who live in poverty have unwanted children - and they are just not ready or willing to be good parents, emotionally or financially. When you are raised by people who are poor and violent, and everyone in your circle of friends are also being raised the same way - it's difficult to see any other option open to you. Then you have a bunch of unplanned and unwanted children, you tend to raise your children the same way you were raised. That just perpetuates the cycle of crime and poverty. It's really hard to break out of that cycle. Of course it can be done, but it's very difficult.

reply to post by Onslaught2996


Swimming pools don't pull guns and fill you full of lead.

reply to post by kaylaluv

How do we get the blacks AND the whites out of poverty? Million dollar question. Sometimes I think people who have come from generations of poverty just can't see past it - even if you try to help them. I don't know what the answer is. I do know it will involve lots of time and multiple generations to try to affect any change.

I'd ask the Mexicans...they do a pretty good job...

reply to post by Onslaught2996


Bill didn't tell a "racist rant". Everyone is talking about it's time for a conversation so bill was telling the truth. He never said anything racist.

Originally posted by lakesidepark
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

That problem does need to be discussed. But not in this post.

The OP premise is that a commentator of MSNBC sucessfully countered an arguement of the commentator of FOX, and presnets an argument that only shows the lack of fact comprehension of the commentator of MSNBC.

Since then there has been a lot of deflection to take this post far away from the discussion of the problem being pointed out by O'Reilly, and NO discussion of whether this problem is real.

Well one thing that should be well noted......the guy likens O'Reilly to some neo-Nazi fictional character right off. That's not anything like some sort of frank race discussion. That's making a straw man out of Bill before even countering his points. You cant have a discussion with a guy like that.

Originally posted by works4dhs
if poverty causes violence, the Appalachians and Ozarks would be war zones.
O'Reilly's main points stand; black girls have babies out of wedlock, and black boys leave school and get involved with gangs and drugs. this leads to poverty, and is in no way the fault of whites.

millions of African-Americans do stay in school, work and succeed, giving lie to the outside-causes-of-failure arguments.
between this poverty debate and events like the Trayvon trial, I really worry there's going to be a white backlash soon, and that could be ugly. I think this whole generation of whites has bent over backwards to accomodate blacks, and the whites feel that their efforts are being unappreciated and wasted.
it's getting harder and harder for politicians to demand financial and professional sacrifices from whites that are barely making ends meet.

THIS!!
I feel it too. White backlash IS coming. Everything black people are angry about happened before my generation was born, and I am sick of white guilt. I have shed mine. White guilt got Obama elected and where has this gotten any of us. Obama is Bush with a suntan and black people still hate white people.

reply to post by riffraff


Black people have always been very racist. Most whites decades ago internalized the question of race and if found out, repented and moved on. Of course not every single white, but the difference with black people is that they were told by some moron back in the day they they never could be racist because they were the victim, or that one needs power to be a racist. Which is crazy, you can't have one definition of racism when accusing whites then a different definition for racism when addressing it within one's own race.

I don't care which of the 4 races you are if you thinknyour's is superior and the other 3 inferior then that is racism.

reply to post by Onslaught2996


There seems to be a problem in you thought pattern. So if Murder or death by guns is lower than the other statistics its ok to say ban guns right? But if 13 Percent of the population can commit over 50 percent of all murders dont blame them because my pool has a better chance to kill me? My pool isnt out looking to rob me or kill me only through my own negligent action could my pool take my life.
On a final note your more likely to die in your pool than be killed by a terrorist same point in the facts wouldnt you say?

reply to post by Onslaught2996


I didn't see the rant, but what I'm reading is not racist and comparing homicide stats to accident stats is a strawman.

reply to post by Onslaught2996


Ok here your talking about racial bias but you dont bring into account that alot of black on white crime doesnt get charged as racial bias. Look at the Trayvon case Zimmerman was found to in no way be racist but if the government could have its way that would be one more person in the white on black statistics. Blacks hardly get charged with race based crimes so your point is moot. If you dont believe me look up black on white crimes and see what the charges are for said offenders.