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We Are NOT Going To Live Forever

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posted on Jul, 27 2013 @ 06:55 AM
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I was speaking to a friend today who said they agree with the government listening in to the phone calls of every single American citizen and reading every email without any need for cause or warrant. Their reasoning? Because the government cant catch terrorists if they do not know who that terrorist is, and it is the phone calls and emails that gives them the information they need to find those "persons of interest/future terrorist"

When I asked why it wouldn't bother them to have their conversations listened in on I was told, "I'm not doing anything wrong why would that bother me?" Therefore, I have decided to make this thread.

You can always argue in favor of anything... seek to justify it for your own reasons... but what is the logical conclusion to us giving up a constitutional right here and there? Lets begin with sobriety checkpoints. I remember when that was a big deal, and it was justified because the end justified the means.




The Bill of Rights refers to the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution, the fourth of which states that:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Thus the Constitution protects people from being stopped without a search warrant or at least “probable cause” that they have committed a crime.

The Michigan Supreme Court found sobriety checkpoints to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment. However, in a split decision, the U.S. Supreme Court reversed the Michigan court. Although acknowledging that such roadblocks violate a fundamental constitutional right, Chief Justice Rehnquist argued that they are necessary in order to reduce drunk driving. That is, he argued that the end justifies the means. Attorney and law professor Lawrence Taylor refers to this as “the DUI exception to the Constitution.” 1

Link www2.potsdam.edu...

So, the logical conclusion to the "end justifying the means" 23 years later is this:



www.kansascity.com...


Kansas City police conducted the driver’s license checkpoint from 6 to 11 p.m. Wednesday at 5005 N.E. Antioch Road in the Northland.

They stopped 1,579 vehicles


We have gone from seeking drunk drivers in effort to keep our roadways safe to checkpoints ensuring everyone driving has a license to do so. I am sure to stop over 1500 vehicles trying to get home from work, run to the store or catch a movie after work is reasonable after all, they found several people who were driving while revoked or suspended. And the rest, well, they weren't doing anything wrong so its ok....

What is the next logical step to that?


The Mexican Federal Police (Policia Federal or "Federales") patrol the roads. Unfortunately, the culture of "mordida" (the term for bribe in the local slang) still prevails, and as often as not the Federales may be willing to let you off with a warning in exchange for some folding money.


In many countries in order to pass a checkpoint or in the case of being pulled over you must hand over some money with your license or you will be harassed or even arrested.That is the next logical progression in a police state. When will this become the norm in America? Its next, I'm sure it will be a few years yet before it happens though.... when it does, will we say, its for our own good? When do we say enough is enough?

All that is driving... but what about parking? Can we park our commercial vehicle on a commercial street in front of our home without being arrested in America?

www.youtube.com...

Apparently not.....they come to your door to arrest you for parking violations now.

But...but...but.....the man might have been a bad man, or he should have been more cooperative etc. Many excuses right? We don't live in a police state....

We can say this is because we are scared of terrorists or that we don't want to die from drunk drivers... but the fact is, we will all die someday.... that is a promise.... do you want to die free? Or a slave? It gets worse though... watch this...






"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking ... is freedom."
Dwight D. Eisenhower

I am hoping beyond hope that Americans wont create a prison for all of us just so they can be safe. Even in the prison they create they will still die... As for me... Give me Liberty or Give me Death!

This is not all there is, just all that would fit in one post... So here I end asking 'why do you want to put off, at the expense of all our forefathers fought for... regardless of race....what can happen tomorrow?'







edit on 27-7-2013 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 27 2013 @ 06:58 AM
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Mods, If this is not in the proper forum please just move it.



posted on Jul, 27 2013 @ 08:04 AM
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I have to agree with most of your OP for your concerns. I see and hear the same things at the college for politics and debate when it comes up. The attitude that it's all being done for our own good so we're all but ingrates not to actually thank them for it, is common enough to be scary to me.

You know the biggest problem? When Bush was in power ... Liberals hated it, fought against it and railed to have this all end. When Obama came to power? Conservatives hate it, fight against it and rail to have it all end.

I don't mean 'labels' as in politicians, but the general mindset and world view of individual Americans.

The bottom line though is that TPTB know, as long as we're divided like this? Around 50% of the nation will be supporting what they do at all times. It'll be a different half, depending on who has power......but when TPTB don't have those same divisions among themselves and away from the cameras? They don't care WHICH half is supporting. It's all the same to them, as long as the numbers remain about like that. They have nothing to worry about in making it all come to pass.



posted on Jul, 27 2013 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I agree with you when you say no matter what about 50% of the nation will be in support at all times. I find this all more frightening by the day because of that. Instead of just saying this is ALL wrong no matter who is pushing it, we are giving excuse and trying to reason it all away.

Everything is moving quickly and very progressively since the 1990's yet we stay divided and pay more attention to our 1 or 2 particular 'causes' and decide the rest does not matter. It ALL matters, and somehow, some way, we have to decide the end does not justify the means, and that more than just one cause matters, its all of them.

No, we no longer have choices in government as it is all the same party regardless of what they speak from their mouths, actions will always speak louder than words.

This nation is now one party, one agenda.... and that agenda in logical conclusion is frightening.

Thanks for reading and replying btw. I guess this is a boring thread to most people. lol....
edit on 27-7-2013 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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"Come on, you apes! What's the matter? You wanna live forever?"

- Sgt. Zim, Starship Troopers, and every Marine sergeant who ever led men into battle

Nope, none of us are going to live forever. it's a question of the quality of life we want to live, not the duration. Far too many people are willing to live in servitude and slavery these days, and many of the people willing to go that rout to obtain a handout from the state, whether a security sop or otherwise, is mind boggling to me. Perhaps even more astounding is the people who are willing to make that trade - far too many of them ought to know better. It's not just my people and yours who marched into the gunfire and whatnot to give them that choice, it was THEIRS, too. They dishonor their own in order to obey the nanny. It's truly disheartening.

Do we want to live forever on our knees, or live in a flash, as free people? I know my answer, and see with my own eye the betrayal of their ancestors in the thoughts and actions of some others.

It's too late for me to live fast, die young, and leave a good looking corpse, but what life I have left will be lived as a free man, not cowering in the corner of a government provided cage like some pet to TPTB, rattling my chains. It will be lived on my feet, and if necessary with a bullet in my chest, blood in my mouth, and a curse on my lips for those who would be master.

It's not just my own liberty that rides on decisions being made even now. It's also the liberty of my children and grand children. I know what I want for them, too. I've not raised livestock to be tagged and herded. I've not raised slaves for the masters. I've raised free people, and the decisions made at this juncture will determine if they remain that way.

They won't live forever, either, but I raised them so die free when they go, and leave that same legacy for their own progeny.



edit on 2013/7/27 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2013 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by OpinionatedB
 


It does get frustrating at times, doesn't it?
However, most of the people on this site, including you and me, have been unaware in the past. Now that we are awakened to the levels of control and deception, we feel an urgency to awaken others. It's a natural sort of altruism that drives us to do this.

I say patience and perseverance with your friend is essential. We should all realize that the more emotional or passionate we become when trying to clue in friends and family, the more defensive they become.

Remember three things:

1. The hardest thing for most people to admit is that they can be deceived on such a grand scale. They will argue harder over this than just about anything.

2. The sleepers cling to the mantra "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about," because all they see is vaguely worded legislation. They do not understand that the definitions of the words keep expanding. (for example: "terrorist" used to be an externally generated threat, and now we see some lifelong US citizens--better known as patriots--being painted with that broad brush).

3. Don't give up.



posted on Jul, 27 2013 @ 07:25 PM
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Frustrating isn't it, exasperating too! There are times that I truly despair, and feel so bitterly disappointed and let down by those with whom I had once believed I'd shared a common ideological bond. It's been many years now since I have been able to associate myself with people whom do not take an intelligent circumspection of what is going on around them, due to a lack of clarity in their perceiving mindset. They are fogged by the simple daily concerns and trivialities of their own mediocre lives, all the while greater forces of social effect martial against them with occulted subtlety.

It finally came down to my having to make choices of separating myself from such people so that I could stop feeling the gut-wrenching despair depressing me all the time. I am a realist, and I cannot abide living in a world of illusions, and thus, having discarded those that were my own, I now remain distant from those whom prefer societal illusions over and above the more important societal realities.

Of course, I don't dwell on these issues with an obsessive zeal. It's important to step away from reality at times and just enjoy the freedom of not having to think combatively all the time. I do have a very exclusive small set of friends whom I accept as they are, and on occasion I accept their entreaties to join them down the pub for a drink, or to go hiking in the Lake District.

On occasions we will talk about issues, but I don't pursue them with an agenda to change their mindsets, I don't have either the right or energy to do so. I just put the information in their heads and leave it to seed, it is up to them to allow it to take root.

If our societies settle into subtle tyrannies, and all the evidence is there that this is indeed what's taking place, then so be it. People take their freedom and liberty for granted, and have lost the insight that they are the ones whom are the guardians of it, not politicians, not government, but they themselves. If sinking into a tyranny is what it takes to remind them of this fact, and to rid them of their indifference to it, then I say bring it on!



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