Hidden in plain sight Phonecian coin.

reply to post by Hanslune


Read the excerpt I am not clear if those were the same mummies tested as before,but didn't she sent hair samples to be tested at other labs,and what about inside the hair shaft,contamination would be difficult,but I look fwd to your reply after all the original tests were carried out way back in 97 as you pointed out so newer sharper testing methods could very well have had different results,one thing that struck me was they poo pooed the initial results without bothering to carry out their own tests.

Some of you guys might find this interesting:



It's from the History channel show America Unearthed, where they say the summer solstice line runs directly through America's Stonehenge (Salem, New Hampshire - USA) to Stonehenge in England and then further on to run exactly through Beirut Lebanon - home of the ancient Phoenicians. Maybe further proof to support the Phoenicians were once in the US.

Also mentioned in the show is the Phoenician coin with the map (of the USA?) on the bottom.

Really great History channel show btw. One of my favorites. For those with an interest in this topic, my advice is don't miss this show!

reply to post by Hanslune


Thanks for that....Well it wasn't the Canaries, because when the Spanish got there and colonised. The people were stone age and thought they were the only people left on earth after a deluge, and It doesn't have rivers. The Modus Oporendi of the Phoenicians, was unhurried and fairly systematic. They would only sail "Summer seas", and would stop plant and repair over the winter. Then leave a settlement to set up trade if required. Hanno's fleet was originally 60 ships.
The Azores have just recently been found to have some temple type structures, that seem to be Phoenician. That would fit for a nice place to set up for an American return base. Before Columbus did the trip he observed the trade winds from what was previously a Phoenician trading base, down the African coast before getting the trip organised. A thousand miles, could have been sailed at the speed of a hundred miles a day, ten days would have been a pretty optimistic trip, a summer breeze with a good wind in calm seas, dosn't make this trip an impossibility, especially when the rewards were so high.
From England to America it's "sail south till the butter melts, then turn right" It certainly could be done, and if it could be done , it probably was.

Was this the account that spoke of navigable rivers somewhere on the other side of the Atlantic ocean? The only place to fit this description of course is the Americas. From what we know of the Phoenicians, they were perfectly capable of sailing to the Americas. They were excellent sailors, they had boats capable of crossing the Atlantic, and most importantly, it is obvious they had a spirit of exploration. The coin map is quite compelling, for obvious reasons. And coupled with everything else we know, I think that there is a good case for the Phoenicians having reached the Americas.

I believe there have even been related artifacts discovered in North America that directly link to these ancient peoples, but I am not certain. From the little I know about related subject matter, it is quite apparent to me that Columbus was just one in a long string of people to "discover" the New World. We now of course know the Vikings made it to North America hundreds of years before Columbus, and there is other evidence suggesting that multiple cultures also made it this far at one point or another.

I suppose it only took one vessel, or a small fleet of vessels, to make it this far. And just because some group of people made it to the Americas does not mean their relatives back home knew anything about it. If some made it so far, they may not have made it back. Or maybe they left and were not planning to come back. There is evidence to show that some groups mixed with the Native Americans that were already in North America, so the new arrivals simply molded in to Native culture. And then how many Native tribes do not even exist any longer? So there may be much evidence simply lost to history forever. But hopefully there are still many things to be unearthed, things that will definitively tell us what we wish to know.

I am convinced that the history books should have been rewritten long ago, at the very least to include these various possibilities. Books are rewritten all the time anyway. That is how they get you in college as well. They use a new textbook every year, just so used books cannot be bought and sold for discounted prices, undercutting those making money off the sale of the book. It wouldn't surprise me if this was done in grade school as well, although they couldn't do it so very often. That is beside the point however, lol.

Far out...talk about creative licence....

reply to post by Hanslune


I thought my first post on this thread was clearly stating that it was an opinion. When making an opinion on lectures and studies you do not have to show evidence if you state it as so. I can make opinions, so do you. I don't ask for evidence on everything you write do I. I do not blindly believe anyone no matter what their credentials unless I look at evidence but that doesn't mean I can't listen to them. I won't blindly believe everything the president of the USA tells me, I will not blindly believe everything the Pope tells me. So if you do not want to listen to my opinions it is your right. I do not blindly believe what you say many times, you think the way you have been trained to think, you see what you are trained to see. I research what you say some times, but I can see that you are not looking at all the evidence sometimes.

One thing to keep in mind, especially with the number of days and particular direction Hanno may or may not have sailed, is that Carthage was notorious for using incorrect details in order to maintain sole control over the trade routes into the Atlantic.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Druscilla

The problem I have with a bronze age culture interacting and having trade relations with Pre-columbian America is that Pre-Columbian Amerians were STILL using stone aged tools when the Spanish arrived.

Were there regular or even brief contact between the new world and the old world there would have been some trade not only in material goods, but also technologies like bronze smithing.

Do we see Bronze age style weapons in the new world?
NO.

We see lots of flint knives and clubs studded with obsidian and such, but, no bronze swords or other similar that would have come at a huge advantage in the war-like cultures of South America.

Let us also note that, shortly after the arrival of Europeans, literally millions of South American natives succumbed to disease - almost certainly smallpox, primarily.

Where's the evidence for the big die-off from Pre-Columbian contact in antiquity? Why weren't the survivors of that catastrophe more immune to these diseases, the way Europeans were?

Harte

Europeans lived in high density cities and towns polluted with coal smoke, literally threw c**p out of the windows with no sewers or fresh water, lived with animals and livestock in their buildings. Add to that rats, cats, tics and fleas, and the whole of Europe was a pandemic waiting to happen. The only benefit was that immune systems of Europeans were more advanced that other world populations. Even now, it can be fatal for Europeans to go off and live in some isolated far-flung Pacific beach paradise for a couple of decades and then return to Europe.

Wonderful thread, thank you.
The races of the world are not so isolated as we sometimes believe and it is possible that America was visited many time's by African and European culture's as well as the possibility that the American peoples themselves may have at times have has sufficiently sophisticated craft to visit Europe and Africa, a hundred years before Columbus the chines left there stone anchors in san Francisco bay or so I have read and the remains of a Buddhist monastery were supposedly found and then covered up in the Andes.
Still the Romans were bad enough but the Carthaginian's used to buy children to sacrifice to there goddess.

Considering the discription this sounds like atlantis not america, atlantis is called an island.
It is also beyond the pillars and would be closer than america to africa.

reply to post by demongoat


Sure, but according to Plato Atlantis had been wiped out 1000's of years prior to Hanno's voyage so I don't see that as a likely location for anyone to have been visiting in the 5th century BPE

Originally posted by stormcell

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Druscilla

The problem I have with a bronze age culture interacting and having trade relations with Pre-columbian America is that Pre-Columbian Amerians were STILL using stone aged tools when the Spanish arrived.

Were there regular or even brief contact between the new world and the old world there would have been some trade not only in material goods, but also technologies like bronze smithing.

Do we see Bronze age style weapons in the new world?
NO.

We see lots of flint knives and clubs studded with obsidian and such, but, no bronze swords or other similar that would have come at a huge advantage in the war-like cultures of South America.

Let us also note that, shortly after the arrival of Europeans, literally millions of South American natives succumbed to disease - almost certainly smallpox, primarily.

Where's the evidence for the big die-off from Pre-Columbian contact in antiquity? Why weren't the survivors of that catastrophe more immune to these diseases, the way Europeans were?

Harte

Europeans lived in high density cities and towns polluted with coal smoke, literally threw c**p out of the windows with no sewers or fresh water, lived with animals and livestock in their buildings. Add to that rats, cats, tics and fleas, and the whole of Europe was a pandemic waiting to happen. The only benefit was that immune systems of Europeans were more advanced that other world populations. Even now, it can be fatal for Europeans to go off and live in some isolated far-flung Pacific beach paradise for a couple of decades and then return to Europe.

So, which non-disease-carrying, public health savvy, running water and sewer possessing culture are we to assume traveled to the New World, and mapped it, mined it, or whatever?

Do you know anything about ancient Phoenician sanitation? How about Egyptian?

Both cultures were devastated repeatedly by various plagues.

Harte

Originally posted by myn4m3
Some of you guys might find this interesting:

It's from the History channel show America Unearthed, where they say the summer solstice line runs directly through America's Stonehenge (Salem, New Hampshire - USA) to Stonehenge in England and then further on to run exactly through Beirut Lebanon - home of the ancient Phoenicians. Maybe further proof to support the Phoenicians were once in the US.

Also mentioned in the show is the Phoenician coin with the map (of the USA?) on the bottom.

Really great History channel show btw. One of my favorites. For those with an interest in this topic, my advice is don't miss this show!

edit on 27-7-2013 by myn4m3 because: (no reason given)

The odds of the "American" Stonhenge" Making a great circle line with the British one, and then going on to the Ancestral home of the Phoenicians, Must be billions to one. The Phoenicians were very active in that part of Britain.

Originally posted by Druscilla

The problem I have with a bronze age culture interacting and having trade relations with Pre-columbian America is that Pre-Columbian Amerians were STILL using stone aged tools when the Spanish arrived.

Two very early explorers of note, state in their journals that american Indians in Georgia and New England were using copper axes.

It is commonly believed that Lewis and Clark were the first to reach the pacific. Well it was the first American official expedition but was by know means the first white men or expeditions to move out there.

I believe personally that these first series of exploratory missions to north America were simply official fact finding missions.

Originally posted by myn4m3
Some of you guys might find this interesting:

It's from the History channel show America Unearthed, where they say the summer solstice line runs directly through America's Stonehenge (Salem, New Hampshire - USA) to Stonehenge in England and then further on to run exactly through Beirut Lebanon - home of the ancient Phoenicians. Maybe further proof to support the Phoenicians were once in the US.

Also mentioned in the show is the Phoenician coin with the map (of the USA?) on the bottom.

Really great History channel show btw. One of my favorites. For those with an interest in this topic, my advice is don't miss this show!

edit on 27-7-2013 by myn4m3 because: (no reason given)

The odds of the "American Stonehenge" making a great circle line with the British one and then going on to the Home of the Phoenicians must be billions to one. The time of the Phoenician empire might have to be revised, they obviously just didn't appear on the scene one fine day. I've often wondered who had the time and money to build Stonehenge. There is an ancient dagger carved on one of the blocks, which looks mediteranean.
Great food for thought. If we think Bronze age = Copper and Tin. Major copper and Tin mines were not that far away.The monument might have got a new life when the Phoenicians arrived, and pheraps rededicated it to Ball..

Originally posted by anonentity
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Thanks for that....Well it wasn't the Canaries, because when the Spanish got there and colonised. The people were stone age and thought they were the only people left on earth after a deluge, and It doesn't have rivers. The Modus Oporendi of the Phoenicians, was unhurried and fairly systematic. They would only sail "Summer seas", and would stop plant and repair over the winter. Then leave a settlement to set up trade if required. Hanno's fleet was originally 60 ships.

As well note how much the Spanish Caravel and the Phoenician ships are near in design. This design known for its long range sailing survivability was used and adopted by Med sea powers over the centuries.

Originally posted by demongoat
Considering the discription this sounds like atlantis not america, atlantis is called an island.
It is also beyond the pillars and would be closer than america to africa.

I think the fastest time that Columbus went from Spain to Landfall in America was just under four weeks, In a Caravel. The Phoenician ships seemed to be faster. Well below the time that scurvy would be a problem. Its a shame we haven't got any, references to how long the sailing time to Atlantis was. I wouldn't say the trip was sweet but flying fish jump into the boat sometimes . The structures under the sea off of Cuba seem to be indicative of an Ancient presence. Time no doubt will tell.

reply to post by anonentity


The Google Earth work in the video was bogus. You can make a Great Circle route between any 2 points on Earth. They were using linear lines (2D) in Google Earth, projected on a 3D representation of a flat surface earth. True, you can plot a linear line in that mode, and between ANY 2 POINTS and then turn it into a Great Circle plot, but anything in between and beyond the 2 points scribed in a Great Circle line and the linear line will not correlate. The assumption that the line went on to intercept the Phoenician empire was absolutely bogus, and really goes to Germany. Bad Geometry, Bad analysis, and the result is a bogus program where you cannot use any of it's discoveries, because there are none.

Originally posted by charlyv
reply to post by anonentity

 

The Google Earth work in the video was bogus. You can make a Great Circle route between any 2 points on Earth. They were using linear lines (2D) in Google Earth, projected on a 3D representation of a flat surface earth. True, you can plot a linear line in that mode, and between ANY 2 POINTS and then turn it into a Great Circle plot, but anything in between and beyond the 2 points scribed in a Great Circle line and the linear line will not correlate. The assumption that the line went on to intercept the Phoenician empire was absolutely bogus, and really goes to Germany. Bad Geometry, Bad analysis, and the result is a bogus program where you cannot use any of it's discoveries, because there are none.

Yes your right ,I find it full of filler, repeating, itself, and any truths might in fact be given no credence because of it . In fact its ten minutes shoved into an hour. The latitude of Salem is about 44 degrees north. and Sonehenge about 55 degrees north. If they are saying that both monuments mark the summer solstice, they should have left it at that.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
Wonderful thread, thank you.
The races of the world are not so isolated as we sometimes believe and it is possible that America was visited many time's by African and European culture's as well as the possibility that the American peoples themselves may have at times have has sufficiently sophisticated craft to visit Europe and Africa, a hundred years before Columbus the chines left there stone anchors in san Francisco bay or so I have read and the remains of a Buddhist monastery were supposedly found and then covered up in the Andes.
Still the Romans were bad enough but the Carthaginian's used to buy children to sacrifice to there goddess.

Yes we do know that Japanese were drifting across as it happened during historic times

All told, the University of Washington anthropologist George Quimby estimated, between 500 and 1750 CE some 187 junks drifted from Japan to the Americas. The number of drifts increased dramatically after 1603—thanks, ironically, to the efforts of a xenophobic regime to keep foreign influences out of Japan and the Japanese in.

These floaters known as hyôryô-min arrived allegedly in Hawaii and NA. The first historically known one occurred

Record of Japanese drifters

There was a Japanese who came to the Pacific Northwest and later went to England but I cannot find that link at this moment.

The problem with drifts from Europe or Asia to America is that these people had little known impact on NA and zero impact on Asia or America. They were simply absorbed.

If say a Roman ship went to say Brazil from the Canaries then got back, it would have been a long trip, they wouldn't have been able to say anything useful - ether way, nor obtain useful trade goods - and would the story get to Rome? Probably not.