NSA loses bid to delay ACLU Lawsuit. Judge shows irritation.

I bring this one to everyone as a story to remind all that we have 3 branches of Government and while they are 3 sides of the same whole? Their connections often END right there. This is most accurate to say with the Courts vs. Legislative or Executive. The latter two co-mingle to the point of losing all sight of 'Seperation of Powers' these days, but not so much in the courts. Here is one of the better examples.

It's GOOD NEWS for a change! The NSA gets told off and told to prepare for trial.

MANHATTAN (CN) - The Justice Department lost its bid Thursday to delay the ACLU challenge to the National Security Agency's data-collecting program as a federal judge reminded government lawyers they were in a courtroom not a marketplace.

"This is not a bazaar, it's a courtroom," the peeved U.S. District Judge William Pauley said before dismissing the federal government's request to reschedule.

That's classic. I would have LOVED to be there and see their looks when the Judge told them that. They obviously did not draw a sympathetic one, by any means. Too late now! They can't go swapping Judges to one they like at this stage.

In its federal complaint , filed after Snowden leaked a secret court order that forced Verizon to "turn over, every day, metadata about the calls made by each of its subscribers over the three-month period ending on July 19, 2013," the ACLU seeks an injunction to block Verizon from turning over phone records.

Source

Gotcha!

This doesn't start tomorrow, but it will be starting soon enough. Now, don't count on existing dates, but I'd guess it's roughly when this will start. (November may get bumped...for obvious political reasons.) Written motions are due by August 26th and Oral is supposed to begin by Nov 1.

Let the games begin and throw on the munchies. The Holiday Season will be interesting!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Woo I share you sentiment Wrabbit!

My only concern we will see a lot of the follow:

1. Redacted documents
   
2. Alot of "this is a matter of national security"
   
3. Secret
   
4. Secret Court
   
5. Secret
   
6. More secret
   

I certainly hope this will be a productive trial and not just a circus to distract the masses. At least it is the ACLU up to bat.

reply to post by MDDoxs


I'm thinking that between the ACLU being the plaintiff's and the Judge already showing a pretty clear dislike..or at least, lack of tolerance for Government games? This one will be one to watch. They didn't get a wimp for a Judge to push around THIS time.

You know what I absolutely LOVE about Federal Courts? When good Judges get on the Bench? The Government who may end up in the wrong side of their courtroom have absolutely nothing they can do short of personally threatening the Judge or their Family ..and woe be the moron who tries it, I'd think. Once on the bench, they are there and without political influence. Why should they care? ...which was the point, of course.

According to the Constitution, Article III federal judges hold office "during good behavior." That means that as long as they are not impeached and removed by Congress, they are appointed for life.

Bear in mind this is only true of Article III judges (Judicial Branch) serving on "constitutional courts":
US District Court
US Court of International Trade
US Court of Appeals Circuit Courts
Supreme Court of the United States

Source

Want some of my Popcorn for the show? (grin)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000




I to believe that with enough of the right people, this trial could have an impact.

However, a lot of how this trial will unfold will fall on the shoulders of the judge. Here is some info i found.

William H. Pauley III is a federal judge for the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York. He joined the Court in 1998 after being nominated by President Bill Clinton. Prior to his appointment to the federal bench, Pauley was the Associate Counsel for the New York State Assembly Minority Leader from 1984 to 1998, in addition to being in private practice.

And to look at his past work, Judgepedia ( ) has these listed:

iram Monserrate case
[hide] United States District Court for the Southern District of New York
*Monserrate v. NEW YORK STATE SENATE 695 F. Supp. 2d 80
Judge Pauley denied an request by former New York State Senator Hiram Monserrate to stop a decision made by the New York Senate to expel him on February 9, 2010.[3]

Monserrate was expelled after being convicted of domestic violence towards his girlfriend which is considered a misdemeanor.[3]

He has demonstrated his ability for handling federal issues.

Not to sure about this one though:

Dot-com collusion
[hide] United States District Court for the Southern District of New York
Judge Pauley on March 18, 2010, ruled against striking down a regulation that prohibits collusion between investment bankers and analysts at Wall Street firms. The ruling comes after the largest firms on Wall Street in 2009 wanted a 2003 rule that prohibited unsupervised contact between investment bankers and analysts overturned. The judge emphasized in his decision that there needs to be separation between independent analysts and bankers if confidence in the markets can be improved.[5]

Had to reread the above excerpt. It looks like he has a good track record for ethical/just rulings.

Want some of my Popcorn for the show? (grin)

Yes, yes i would.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I bring this one to everyone as a story to remind all that we have 3 branches of Government...

This is in NO way meant to deride your OP. In fact, I like your style quite a lot!

But... I couldn't resist sharing this...

Former branches of US government:
Judicial, Executive and Legislative.

21st Century branches of US government:
National Security, Executive Edict, Media Enforcement

Just waiting for the executive order from Obama to exempt the NSA from having to face these challenges.

National security reason, just watch it will happen.

Originally posted by benrl
Just waiting for the executive order from Obama to exempt the NSA from having to face these challenges.

National security reason, just watch it will happen.

I to share your fears. If you slap a title on something like MATTER OF NATIONAL SECURITY it almost excepts most things from public scrutiny.

Of course it's "National Security". After all, are we not all enemy combatants when it comes to the Federal Government? When did the phrase change from "of the people by the people for the people" change to 'control the people'?

Love it...

Ever since I read you previous thread about the Judicial Branch.

It has given me hope. They are the last stop. Our Founders were not dumb.

Even Federal Judges hate being spied on. Congressman hate to be spied on.

Nobody should tolerate being spied on. It seems like a basic human right to me.

PS. When I talk about the Judicial Branch to friends. You can see a glimmer of hope.

Sadly, nothing will happen.

People at the top of the food chain within the intelligence community can blackmail every single person who opposes NSA wiretapping. Everyone has a secret they don't want made public.

I think most of the opposition is staged to calm down the masses, and to give the appearance that something is being done.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Yeah... Richard Nixon thought that too...right up until he resigned to avoid being impeached and thrown out on his tail. Reagan thought that as well...until he watched his inner circle of trusted fixers and troubleshooters get taken apart and prosecuted in Iran/Contra.

Many people in Government have thought they were above the law. In too many cases, they HAVE been. However, we're seeing this gain momentum and take on a life of its own. It's all I've honestly been waiting to see before really feeling good about things and how this may end, eventually. Oh..nothing will be solved like the happy ending of a movie or anything ...but I seriously doubt everyone gets away free and clear at this point. Even those at the top. Some will fall if the motion at this point is anything to go by in past examples.

Also, to go by past examples, the culture in Intelligence and Government will be very risk adverse after all this is done, for years to come. Those who survive it will take a good time before they get anywhere like THIS far out of line again. It's the same as happened in the 70's with Church/Pike.

Patience...and we'll see how this turns out. Also, we need to keep in mind, we have NOT heard everything yet or everyone who has more to add to this. There could still be things out there (and I believe there are) to match or exceed what Snowden has chosen to share up to this point.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well Hoover did keep "secret files" that have never been found to this day. After his death they were removed from his office and never seen again. I do know he kept files on the Kennedy's and eavesdropped in on Martin Luther King Jr.

Try watching "House of Cards" (GREAT show btw) sometime. It really opens your eyes to the possibility of backroom deals and strong arming. They even address the issue of lobbyists. It's worth watching, Kevin Spacey was made for that role!

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
Sadly, nothing will happen.

People at the top of the food chain within the intelligence community can blackmail every single person who opposes NSA wiretapping. Everyone has a secret they don't want made public.

I think most of the opposition is staged to calm down the masses, and to give the appearance that something is being done.

If the judge in this case is smart, he will video record every conversation he has until this trial is over. If anyone ever approaches him with the threat of blackmail, he could take it to the media and all hell would break loose. Can you imagine the fallout if in order to stop the trial the NSA was caught blackmailing the judge, and the judge went public with that information?

I really can't see that happening. Their best protection is to get the executive branch to simply say their material isn't subject to judicial review.

reply to post by Aazadan


Indeed that would be smart, but these judges are older fellas. They don't quite understand IP/TCP protocols and how exactly this data collection works. They probably don't think "they" have anything on them. I mean, after all they were "vetted" and elected/nominated to the bench.

This also begs the question: "Who do the people in nominated positions serve?"

Good people don't get into politics. If perchance they do, they are corrupted quickly or quit.

Welcome to Washington.

Shhh.... can you hear that? Listen.... Thats the sound of the growing rage being felt by more and more americans. Sure hope this is a true eruption of actions to restore the principles stated in the Constitution.

Time to wake up america!

reply to post by MystikMushroom


I beg to disagree. There are plenty of good ones in congress. They've been denied a voice for a very long time. Well, that voice is getting louder and I've heard at least a half dozen of the names associated with them in just the last week. Lets hope its a trend.

We are already so screwed, they are using secret courts,
making up the rules as they go along, ignoring rights and
laws, turning around and telling us that this isnt what we
think it is, all the while they have lipstick on their collar
and smell of booze.......

Something needs to be done, playing along as if we were
all just following the rules will never fix this, its like trying to
win a foot race when the other fellow rides by on a bike and
then at the finish line after he has won he says, oh yea by
the way bikes count because you use your feet......