Zimmerman / Trayvon: Yeah, I'm sick of it too, but one Video you HAVE to see...

reply to post by IvanAstikov


"Zimmerman or O'Mara's party line?" Lol some party. No I. Am basing my opinions solely on the facts. THE FACTS. The things that you and wonderboi have consistently disregarded in your duel trolling of this topic. It's you who have towed the media's line of garbage. Ignoring reality and helping incite a racial divide in the country so we can't move on to real topics and allow scandals and corruption to slip by because you want to tell lies about a case ignoring facts and truth, keeping the story afloat. The case is over, the verdict was just, Zimmerman was found innocent as I and others told you he would be, and now you are stagnating in ignorance and denial. Nothing you can do or so can change reality. You will never have a legitimate win on this topic. So give up and let people move on.

I call him a fool because it's a foolish thing to be so careless with words and accusations. Same goes for you honestly. You are the one continuing to incite racial hate and divide the country further everytime you spread a lie about this case. No one has ever towed such a line free of cost as the Pro Trayvon people have. You bought right in from day one and helped the government create a rift between the people. You have played your own tiny part in everything that continues to be a problem in my country and thus yours (if you actually are from the UK annd not from wherever wonderboi is from). Nothing has ever supported this was a race crime, and nothinng has ever cast doubt on Zimmermans story, it was all media manufactured and without the medias b.s. you wouldn't even be trying to argue with me and would see it for what it is. Thanks for all the hard work you did though, taking light off of the IRS, Prism, etc. I heard they have a bike in Oakland for you as a reward.

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It has no place on ATS.

You are responsible for your own posts.

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Originally posted by SPYvsSPY
OK let's break this down so everyone understands. You have 2 young men, 1 on foot meandering through the neighborhood, the other neighborhood watch in a vehicle meandering through the neighborhood. Both notice each other and up goes the radar. After a bit both are on foot and are playing cat and mouse with each other. 1 is armed the other is not. The armed man doesn't expect to be run up on by the unarmed man and taken down, The unarmed man doesn't expect the gun, they fight. BANG one is shot............both were at fault In the heat of the moment you will use anything, rock, stick, fist, gun.

No.. Only 1 was at fault... the guy who attacked.

Last I checked, it was still a free country where you could pretty much stick your nose anywhere you wanted, so long as it wasn't private property. If you're walking up and down a street corner with your headphones in, singing to yourself and not doing anything wrong... I can still take it upon myself to walk up to you and disturb you by asking you what you're doing on that street corner. You dont have to answer me. You dont even have to look at me. But... I can still ask you. I can even watch where you go from there, so long as it's not considered stalking. By stalking, I do mean the definition of law, not a general dictionary term that can apply to pretty much anything.

I can inquire all I want. If I think you're up to no good, I can do whatever it takes to make sure you're not. I can even deter you from hanging out there by doing something to make you want to leave... So long as I dont cause you physical harm, or make some sort of offence. My presence there and my activities are totally legal as long as it doesn't bring you harm. Unless, of course, you do something illegal. Then there are various means I can apply depending on the crime. Citizen's arrest being also possible.

I see no wrong done by zimmerman. Unless you were there and can show me that zimmerman attacked martin first. THEN we can go on and lay blame in another direction.

Either way, though.. When you have 2 people and one has a gun, and the other grabs for that same gun... the one grabbing can and should be legally fired upon because at that moment, the gun owner's life could be in danger. It doesn't matter if the person grabbing for the gun intends on shooting the owner, or if he's just wanting to toss it aside in case it can be used... The owner doesnt know this and has reasonable suspicion that the person grabbing for the gun is planning to kill him.

It's cut and dry. I have no idea why this is even an issue from the start....

oh wait.. it's racial. That's the ONLY reason this is even on the news. the PTB wants to divide and confuse us so they can control us more.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Pure garbage, well most of it, and highly slanted.

Since when does Lean make someone aggressive? Perhaps you should ask people who have actually drink it? Only thing Lean did for my friends and I were make us too sleepy to go to the club even. It was like sleep walking and I couldn't throw a punch if I wanted!

Bottom line is this, supporters of Trayvon were led astray with the racial aspect. In fact most of the country is led astray in that way. The problem is not racial so much anymore, it has shifted to CULTURE.

As long as you subscribe to White-American culture you are on the good team. As in this case we wonder why so much support for George. It's because you can see George and his family assimilated well into that culture.

It's something I'm working on presenting to the right individuals to have light shine on what the REAL issue is. People aren't being profiled and targeted because of skin color anymore, they are doing this based on culture such as the hip hop or grunge or others.

The racist realized it was a losing war against skin and morphed their hate into one against culture.

reply to post by theRhenn


You say 1 person was at fault, the guy who attacked...

Well, who attacked first? Did Zimmerman lose his cool after Martin said something fresh? We already know the man has a violent past and has snapped on occasion (ask his co-workers and his wife). Did Z throw a punch and miss which precipitated the violent reaction from Martin? We don't know and since we don't know let us just say that both young men acted irresponsibly and both are to blame.

We also know Zimmerman already had the idea in his head that Martin was breaking the law, that he was a thug and a criminal when he told police "They always get away". BTW, who is they? People in hoodies? People walking down the street not committing any crimes? Or was he referring to black thuggie looking people? He was prejudiced and not even-headed to begin with before he started following Martin on foot.

If you really think Zimmerman did no wrong I hope you are in his shoes someday "doing the right thing" .

And when you call the police to report suspicious behavior and they tell you to get back in your car, guess what? For everyone's sake get back in your car, go home, and dream about yourself doing something heroic for the betterment of the community.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


There is no way of telling if it had an effect, but you do need to consider that he was drinking a mistaken version of lean with the wrong ingredient. Instead of a sedative effect it would have a psychoactive and hallucinogenic effect in high doses (dxm, 1 bottle otc would be a very high dose and is dangerous). It could have, and VERY likely did make Martin more paranoid if he was under the influence and though ,as I said before there is no way of knowing if it was a factor nor does it matter really, it is probable that it could have caused him anxiety and paranoia that caused him to attack. However, I personally don't think he was on a high dose if he'd had any yet that night and that he waited and attacked Zimmerman just because that's who Trayvon was. I believe that because I do believe he likely said " do you have a porblem/you do now" and that makes him seem aware and focused, unlike someone tripping.

Also, we have no proof of who started the actual fight, but we know for certain Martin initiated the confronntation and all evidence suggests he started the fight (offensive and defensive wounds on both men). No definitive proof, but it's undeniably probable that Martin started the fight, and it's factual that he did not stop after another person arrived and he clearly had the upper hand.

Originally posted by djr33222
reply to post by theRhenn

 

You say 1 person was at fault, the guy who attacked...

Well, who attacked first? Did Zimmerman lose his cool after Martin said something fresh? We already know the man has a violent past and has snapped on occasion (ask his co-workers and his wife). Did Z throw a punch and miss which precipitated the violent reaction from Martin? We don't know and since we don't know let us just say that both young men acted irresponsibly and both are to blame.

We also know Zimmerman already had the idea in his head that Martin was breaking the law, that he was a thug and a criminal when he told police "They always get away". He was not even-headed to begin with before he started following Martin on foot.

If you really think Zimmerman did no wrong I hope you are in his shoes someday "doing the right thing" .

edit on 28-7-2013 by djr33222 because: (no reason given)

That's something none of us but Zimmerman and Martin knows. Why speculate? It's not right that we do so. By doing this, we're just assuming and pointing a finger. This makes us no better than the media.

If you insist that I do so... I would say... Look at the facts. Look at the details. I would "assume" that a dank drinking, paranoid, high, MMA wanna be, smartass thief, who got kicked out of school, threw the first punch.

Again... that's an assumtion and that would be wrong and hipocritical of me.


Now... think. Lets say youre racist. All this is going down. Do you really think that you're just going to think:

- Tha bastard is going to get off... wait.. I'll shoot him. He wont get away. Oh yeah... Isn't there a stand your ground law.. Yes yes! That's what I'll do. I'll take my chances that I dont get thrown in the electric chair and say i was standing my ground and he went after my gun....


Do you really think this guy wanted to just take a life that day? If he was raised with two other black boys, why would he be racist? You see... To those that actually think about this whole issue and EVERYTHING involved... The above just doesn't add up.

Cmon... surely you see this?

Look... I'm not racist. I'm not for one or the other. As a person and being in the line of duity as an X cop.. X Army, and a human being who rather be alive than dead, I can see nothing, absolutely NOTHING complicated about this. Just think about the issue and I think a ton of obviousness will come out of it. Go into it taking no sides to begin with.. THIS is important. Then come out and make your choice based on ALL of the facts that you have found... NOT the facts that the media wants you to see. Be your own person. Dont believe what everyone tells you. Be your own investigator and you will find more truth than what is being told to you.

Best advice I have.

Some of us dont want to research and we leave it up to others to tell us what to do, how to live and what to know. That's where the problem comes in. Because in the end, you'll have a lie, a half truth and the truth... you'll just have to figure out which is which. Unless you do your own digging, you will never know and you'll have a 1 in 3 chance to actually know what's going on. I guess people just subscribe to... "Doesnt matter what I believe, I'll look like an idiot to 1/3 of the people anyways".

I rather just know for myself. I dont like taking peoples word for it when so much is at stake. Like the division of the country even more. We have enough division already.

by the way...

I wouldn't want to be in Zimmerman's shoes one day. I've already been close enough as a cop. Why would say such a thing anyways? You saying that just shows your character. You're throwing such a harsh wish my way because you dont agree with me? That's pretty sad. All I can say is... I think you've already made up your mind before you knew anything about this case. You're just going on what the smart people on tv told you.

Good luck with that.

Do you have to use the word: "attacked"? Can we just say: the guy that "allegedly beat the crap out of GZ", (for STALKING him)? It's HARDLY an "attack" when the guy says: "Do you have a problem?", and GZ says: "No, i don't have a problem"; while reaching for the "phone" on his right hip pocket.

Do you really believe he mistakenly put his phone in the wrong pocket? Pay attention to DETAIL. It reveals all the LIES.

“No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar” ― Abraham Lincoln

“People think that a liar gains a victory over his victim. What I’ve learned is that a lie is an act of self-abdication, because one surrenders one’s reality to the person to whom one lies, making that person one’s master, condemning oneself from then on to faking the sort of reality that person’s view requires to be faked…The man who lies to the world, is the world’s slave from then on…There are no white lies, there is only the blackest of destruction, and a white lie is the blackest of all.” ― Ayn Rand

reply to post by theRhenn


Very well said. I can tell you are a man of good judgement and I respect whatever opinion you have about this matter.

If you were to assume "that a dank drinking, paranoid, high, MMA wanna be, smartass thief, who got kicked out of school, threw the first punch." I wouldn't disagree with you. Many people I've been talking to have already made this assessment and I don't disagree with them.

I do find it odd, however, when I say something like "that bi-polar vigilante, police academy fanboy wannabe, cousin molesting sexual deviant, gun-carrying neighborhood watchman with delusions of grandeur, legal tiptoeing, zero maturity creep may have instigated..." they all say there is no way. They say its not possible because it can't be proven. They deny the slightest possibility.

And I generally retort, the exact same quid pro quo responsibility denials can be made for Martin too. At that point the conversation always stops.

reply to post by theRhenn

Last I checked, it was still a free country where you could pretty much stick your nose anywhere you wanted, so long as it wasn't private property

I think you mean: so long as you're not "black" and wearing a "hoodie". I guess in your "free country" that black teen had no business being in a neighborhood he actually lived in, huh?

What Amerika are you talking about? Your view of "freedom" is highly obscured.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Why do you need to insist that the only way I could fail to support Zimmerman is because I have been sucking the msm teat on thiis story from day one? How exactly have you managed to avoid all this pervasive media influence, yet remain so knowledgeable about it in every aspect? Why do you prefer to label my opinions as "agenda based," rather than just accepting the possibility that this might be my pet topic for commentating on while I'm on the internets? I could just as easily make the same assertions about yourself, but where would that get us?

Originally posted by WonderBoi
reply to post by theRhenn

 

Last I checked, it was still a free country where you could pretty much stick your nose anywhere you wanted, so long as it wasn't private property

I think you mean: so long as you're not "black" and wearing a "hoodie". I guess in your "free country" that black teen had no business being in a neighborhood he actually lived in, huh?

What Amerika are you talking about? Your view of "freedom" is highly obscured.

This is sad.

I have grown up and lived in at one point ,the neighborhood i am currently sitting in. 34 years.
an uncle and cousin live around the corner. My ex and son live 2blocks away
And two or three years ago i parked by my uncles and walked around the. Corner to my grandmothers house.

When i got backto my car it was surrounded by local pd.

They harassedme for over an hour because some new neighbors thought i was suspicious ( this was literally noon on at Saturday and they thought i might have been a burglar.

And it had nothing to do with race. It has to do with the paranoid psychology that permeates this country.


It has to do with the militrization of our police and the sheep.

Please don't fall for it

Originally posted by djr33222
reply to post by theRhenn

 

Very well said. I can tell you are a man of good judgement and I respect whatever opinion you have about this matter.

If you were to assume "that a dank drinking, paranoid, high, MMA wanna be, smartass thief, who got kicked out of school, threw the first punch." I wouldn't disagree with you. Many people I've been talking to have already made this assessment and I don't disagree with them.

I do find it odd, however, when I say something like "that bi-polar vigilante, police academy fanboy wannabe, cousin molesting sexual deviant, gun-carrying neighborhood watchman with delusions of grandeur, legal tiptoeing, zero maturity creep may have instigated..." they all say there is no way. They say its not possible because it can't be proven. They deny the slightest possibility.

And I generally retort, the exact same quid pro quo responsibility denials can be made for Martin too. At that point the conversation always stops.

edit on 28-7-2013 by djr33222 because: (no reason given)

I totally agree. I guess I didn't take what you were saying as you meant it, before. Sorry for any harshness in my tone.

Originally posted by WonderBoi
reply to post by theRhenn

 

Last I checked, it was still a free country where you could pretty much stick your nose anywhere you wanted, so long as it wasn't private property

I think you mean: so long as you're not "black" and wearing a "hoodie". I guess in your "free country" that black teen had no business being in a neighborhood he actually lived in, huh?

What Amerika are you talking about? Your view of "freedom" is highly obscured.

No sir.. I meant exactly what i said.

I see what you're saying but it's not like that everywhere. That is also another topic altogether and will open up a whole new can of worms.

It's all about how you appear to people in how you will be labled by people. If you have pants hanging off your ass, wearing a hoodie at night, ducking in and out of shadows... how will you come off to people? It's not like I'm making a judgment... You're already giving me an impression. You're causing me to make judgment. Anyone who says they are not prejudice is a liar. Anyone who says they are not judgmental, I would be very hard pressed to believe. (See I just made a judgment based upon what I know from my own life's experiances) So you may see where this can go.

Pavlovs dog. If someone who wears purple pants hits you in the head with a bat 3 mornings in a row... That night on the 3rd day... Even though it's not morning... and you see a guy with a pair of purple pants... Will you cringe and stiffen up, expecting that bat swing? Probably so.


It is what it is. How you display yourself is probably equal to how people will accept you when you are in or out of place.

If I see someone walking around my complex with shorts to their ankles, wearing a hoodie at night... You damn right I'm going to watch my car. I dont care what color they are. I see white people act no different. hell, I see asians and mexicans using ghetto slang. I see some of my own family talking like they're strait out of the hood when I know they're strait out of the swamp!

It's all about how you carry yourself. You want to be different? Then prepare to be judged as... different. You got what you ask for, right?

I wear a beanie in the winter time. I'm a 40 year old man who dresses like a 20-30something year old. I attract women of the same age. Do you think it's an accident? I find myself more at ease with a younger crowd. I dont feel that "most" people my age feel the same as me on the inside. I choose to be who i want to be. I expect people to treat me that way. Dont ya think that many people look at me and say "Look at that idiot... thinking he's younger than he is.. He needs to grow up". Does it bother me? I guess not. Still doesn't change who I am. I had a guy say something about me robbing the craddel when I was in the mall with my oldest daughter (19 at the time). That pissed me off, but then I realised why he said it... He seen some guy that was obviously older, wearing probably the same attire that a guy her age would be wearing. Sorry.. I just never felt age change me in some ways. People expect it, but I never gave it a thought.

Sooo... It is what it is. It doesn't bother me because it's me.

I think the same is true in this situation with Z vs T.

reply to post by theRhenn


People need not ever apologize to me but thank you. Most of my posts have a touch of insolence in them so if people reply to me with the same tone I don't mind. What always will matter more than people's opinions on a topic is the personal character of the people, regardless of personal beliefs. I am quite sure if Martin had better character (17 is damn sure old enough to take responsibility) he would still be alive.

If I was in that same situation I would never have taken offence to being followed or being thought suspicious. I am African American, live in New Jersey, and have never once in my life experienced racial prejudice. I don't identify with any black communities, social organizations, or modes of thinking. I never voted for Obama. Most all my friends in college were Asian Indian or Caucasian and I've been in interracial relationships. I have a degree in psychology and my brother is a doctor. We both listened to a lot of rock music growing up. I spent all of my time in the library reading hundreds of books as a kid. Now as a 25 year old I am well-read, been exposed to different cultures, express myself exceptionally well verbally, and I dress very well to make a good impression on people.

If it was me in that situation I would have not even noticed Martin following me. I would not care. If for some reason I did take offense I would have gingerly walked up to him and had a civil conversation man to man and we both would have walked away smiling and very much alive.

Martin was immature and stupid, so was Zimmerman. If Martin couldn't control his anger Zimmerman didn't have the social skills necessary to avoid a confrontation. I guarantee they had a few words before the whole thing kicked off. Those words should have been used to allay suspicious and avoid a heated altercation. They weren't unfortunately.

BTW - I do not even own a hoodie. Not that it matters lol.

reply to post by djr33222

I do find it odd, however, when I say something like "that bi-polar vigilante, police academy fanboy wannabe, cousin molesting sexual deviant, gun-carrying neighborhood watchman with delusions of grandeur, legal tiptoeing, zero maturity creep," they all say there is no way. They say its not possible because it can't be proven. They deny the slightest possibility.

You can't deny the FACTS. You know, the same "facts" needed to convict Martin.

bi-polar vigilante

A former co-worker told the New York Daily News that Zimmerman, usually a nice guy, would snap from time to time. Describing Zimmerman as one of the guys, but with a dark side:

"Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us. But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped."

Zimmerman’s former co-worker continued, saying:

"He had a temper and he became a liability. One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted. It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out."

police academy fanboy wannabe

He does look like a cop, and probably has a 55 I.Q.

Prosecutors have filed paperwork, revealing that George Zimmerman applied to become a police officer in a county near Washington, D.C. but was turned down. His application and rejection letter are among the latest pieces of evidence the state has notified defense attorneys they may use at Zimmerman's trial. The Orlando Sentinel reports

The new list of evidence, filed Monday, says Zimmerman applied to become an officer in Prince William County, Md., but that appears to be an error. There is no Prince William County in Maryland, however, there is one in Virginia, and it's the site of Zimmerman's hometown:Manassas.

The paperwork does not spell out when Zimmerman applied for the job, but it is not the first indication that he had an interest in police work. He was a student at Seminole State College, about to complete a two-year degree in criminal justice, at the time of the shooting.

He also took part in a citizens' academy, a program sponsored by the Seminole County Sheriff's Office that allows people to become more familiar with police work. On his 2008 application to join that program, he wrote,

"I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one."

cousin molesting sexual deviant

Special prosecutor Angela Corey just released more than 120 recorded phone calls that murder suspect George Zimmerman made from the Seminole County Jail. Also released is the statement of "Witness 9," a woman who says Zimmerman is prejudiced against blacks and that he molested her when she was a child. Witness 9 recounted the molestation claims in graphic detail. She says Zimmerman molested her as a child, starting at age 6:

"He would put his hands under my pants, under my underwear. He would put his pants under my underwear...basically...****** me..."

She continued

"He would say we weren't doing anything, just playing hide/seek...I was a kid, didn't know any better…He just got this look in his eye like he was going to."

SourcesYup, GZ is such an upstanding citizen.

reply to post by djr33222

Please, do continue....

gun-carrying neighborhood watchman with delusions of grandeur

The Department of Justice announced an investigation Monday into the February killing of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman, a self-appointed captain of an unregistered neighborhood watch. www.slate.com... tually_decrease_crime_.html

legal tiptoeing

Ya don't say???

After shooting Trayvon, he told Sanford police he didn't have a criminal history, turns out he did. Weeks later he told the Seminole County Sheriff's Office he had never been in a pretrial-diversion program, but he was.

On the witness stand in April, Zimmerman told Trayvon's family in an apology that he had thought their son was close to his age, while on the night of the shooting he described the 17-year-old to police as in his "late teens."

As Trayvon family lawyer Benjamin Crump said when Zimmerman’s bond was revoked

This is such an important ruling today because once again George Zimmerman's credibility is the issue… he should remain in custody until there is a trial....Judge Lester’s ruling in this matter is so important because it causes everyone to focus on Zimmermant’s credibility.

This is crucial when it is only Zimmerman’s testimony that Trayvon attacked him and all the objective evidence says he perused, confronted, and shot Trayvon."

We can’t believe anything Zimmerman has to say anymore. Here are some false and misleading statements Zimmerman has made since shooting Trayvon:

his record was squeaky-clean,

he never had been in a pretrial-diversion program before

At his April 20 bond hearing, he said: he didn't realize Trayvon was so young,

his wife said the couple had no savings. At that moment, the couple had at least $135,000

Sources

And these GZ cheerers say: "facts and evidence"??? Who's???

Originally posted by Trubl
Really?!?! When will this ever end. I can deal with Ats slandering a dead kids name and placing another on a pedestal but stop slandering the syrup! Purple drank does not make you paranoid or aggressive it does the opposite, he wasn't on Pcp bath salts or any other aggressive mind altering narcotic.

So now TM's new nick name is "lean maker" huh?

I must have missed the 911 call where Zimmerman reported Trayvon was "leaning" or appeared to be intoxicated. I also missed the part where Trayvon had a prescription bottle of the promethazine w/ codeine in his possession. I was also unaware that possession of Schedule II type drugs carry the death penalty.

We have hard drug laws in The United States as it is we don't need moronic propaganda filling the publics mind. What more do you people want? Trayvon is dead and Zimmerman is free.

don't pretend you "care" for Trayvon

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Excellent find! Kudos to Bill Whittle!

Couple this with the recent thread by Stormdancer777 about Sarah Palin being prevented from telling the truth about Obama and his past, and the work Bill Whittle did uncovering the lies told during the mass shootings and Sandy Hook, Colorado, etc, and it’s very apparent that we’re being duped by the MSM. They don’t let the truth get in the way of their agenda.

This should be alarming to everybody who sees it and NONE OF US should take anything the MSM says at face value. We're being lied to day in and day out!

Originally posted by Credenceskynyrd

Originally posted by Trubl
Really?!?! When will this ever end. I can deal with Ats slandering a dead kids name and placing another on a pedestal but stop slandering the syrup! Purple drank does not make you paranoid or aggressive it does the opposite, he wasn't on Pcp bath salts or any other aggressive mind altering narcotic.

So now TM's new nick name is "lean maker" huh?

I must have missed the 911 call where Zimmerman reported Trayvon was "leaning" or appeared to be intoxicated. I also missed the part where Trayvon had a prescription bottle of the promethazine w/ codeine in his possession. I was also unaware that possession of Schedule II type drugs carry the death penalty.

We have hard drug laws in The United States as it is we don't need moronic propaganda filling the publics mind. What more do you people want? Trayvon is dead and Zimmerman is free.

don't pretend you "care" for Trayvon

To be honest, i don't care about either. I care about people waking up to the truth. I mean, who was on trial? Trayvon or George??? It seems to me, like Trayvon has been on trial, and dude already received his unjustly sentence.