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Understanding "Terrorists" (just hear me out) Poster's Confession/Explanation

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posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 07:51 AM
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Well, you can't lump all the people who are fighting the US into one group.

Some ARE barbarians...some aren't.

Of course, most people on this board consider them all the enemy, and that is why I feel unsympathetic to their hypocrisy.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by cstyle226]




posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 07:57 AM
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BTW cstlye you have yet to provide any sort of evidence for your accusations in response to my first post, care to try?
Or perhaps actually attempting to refute my rebuttals?
Or are you simply aware enough of your own ignorance to avoid making the attempt.
How exactly do you feel the US is "propping up the saudi regime"?
Is it by trading with them?
Buying thier oil?
Selling them weapons?
Can you show any evidence of Those who oppose bush being denied thier free speech?
Books taken off the shelves?
Websites being shut down?
Or perhaps any evidence that the Afghani elections were not valid?

Can you support any of the claims you have made?


[edit on 10-11-2004 by mwm1331]

[edit on 10-11-2004 by mwm1331]



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:16 AM
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Would you accept any of it? Or would I just be replied to with:

"You are wrong...you are so owned you little dumb kid
"

Because that's all I've gotten...so what's the point in arguing with those who hear nothing?



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:17 AM
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Look,

I am not against America. I strongly disagree with the current government, it's policies, and the people trying to demonize 1 billion for the acts of a few. I believe the current policies will do nothing to stop terrorism, and will only increase it. Plain and simple.

When it comes down to it, I do not believe in God. I believe the killing of any innocent people is wrong, ALWAYS, by anyone. And I believe those who preach distrust, are not innocent, no matter whose side they are on, and they do deserve whatever happens to them.

And as for my service, I served for Turkey on the Southern Border for 6 months, before, during, and after (for a bit) the US-led invasion of Iraq.

You all can hate me all you want, you can mock me all you want. I don't even believe in any religion, so I have no stake in this. The only reason I made any of these posts was to challenge you people and get you going somewhat, since there doesn't seem to be much of anyone else doing it. I don't care if you hate Islam, or everyone. I tend to be on the side of underdog, and in this case, they are the underdog, and while everyone would like to believe the cause of the US is just, I doubt it.

I've worked for John McCain, Howard Dean, and John Kerry.
I love America.
I love Turkey.

The topic of one of the thread's here was the question, "Islamophobia: is that bad on ATS?"

We've discovered that the answer is a resounding, "Yes."


[edit on 10-11-2004 by cstyle226]



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:24 AM
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Well, you can't lump all the people who are fighting the US into one group.


I don't hear the "Mujahadeen" denouncing the kidnappings, beheadings, etc., so yes, we can lump them all in one group. Are you trying to convince me that the insurgents aren't cheering every time they hear of another beheading? If you are, the only one you're fooling is yourself...

As long as they continue to support such tactics, whether actively, or by a silent nod of approval (as the acts are done in support of their cause), the insurgents are terrorists by association...not Mujahadeen....



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by cstyle226
Would you accept any of it? Or would I just be replied to with:

"You are wrong...you are so owned you little dumb kid
"

Because that's all I've gotten...so what's the point in arguing with those who hear nothing?


Nice try but go back and read the thread again.
When I came back at your baseless accusations with a well reasoned rebuttal consiting of a question, a statement of fact, and (yes I admit it) ridicule of your assertion that "those who question bush are silenced by hs opressive regime" You then stated you had torn my thread apart and moved on to backhanded insults.

Now if you honestly believe that posting blantant lies is tearing my thread apart perhaps you need further educaton.

If you do wsh to discuss this rationally then start by awnsering the questions in my prior post.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:28 AM
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Why argue, you're right.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:30 AM
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Good for you cstyle it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. Congratulations.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
Good for you cstyle it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. Congratulations.


Sure, no problem...


Actually, I'm tired of battling you people...I've been arguing against about 4 people for 5 hours, and all 4 have been taking me on, and no one has been on arguing with me, read my long post, to understand how I feel, if you care. If not, well, that's fine.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:39 AM
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I've read every post in this thread, most even twice.
I also have lived with muslims, as you have, so I'm not coming to this from just seeing them on tv, etc. I've called (and still call) many muslims friend. I have Jewish friends also, even one who's served in the Isreali military.

As you, I follow no one God, etc.

However, I cannot abide nor support, a group that continues to deliberately target innocent noncombatants in order to further their political goals. This is different than harming innocents in the crossfire. The deliberate targetting of such individuals is terrorism, pure and simple. And until they cease committing/supporting such actions...those involved will be terrorists.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
I've read every post in this thread, most even twice.
I also have lived with muslims, as you have, so I'm not coming to this from just seeing them on tv, etc. I've called (and still call) many muslims friend. I have Jewish friends also, even one who's served in the Isreali military.

As you, I follow no one God, etc.



Well then, I will close by saying, I, too, have friends of all backgrounds (Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Christians...most don't really believe in god, either), and I have nothing against any "group" of people.



However, I cannot abide nor support, a group that continues to deliberately target innocent noncombatants in order to further their political goals. This is different than harming innocents in the crossfire. The deliberate targetting of such individuals is terrorism, pure and simple. And until they cease committing/supporting such actions...those involved will be terrorists.


We agree.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 08:44 AM
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Your tired of battling,, oh poor you.
The problem is cstyle you dont say anything of substance and you dont back up your accusations with facts.
You praise terrorists, tell people they are getting what they deserve and throw insults.
You claimed the US doesn't have troops in darfour because the christians being slaughtered are black and don't have oil while, refusing to recognise the US's support of AU peacekeepers.
Yet where was the oil in bosnia when US soldiers where defending the mulms being slaugthered there? Where was the economic gain in that situation?
You clam the Afghan election were rigged in Karzai favor ignoring the fact that it was overseen by the UN and the fact that even Karzai's political opponents aknowledged the election was fair and legitimate.
You say those who detonate bombs which kill more iraquis than cooalition troops are fighting for Iraqi freedom.
Name another revolution where legitimate freedom fighters were slaughtering random citizens?
Didn't happen in the french, american, or even cuban revolutions hell even the communist revolutionaries didnt slaughter russian citizens.
You claim that the US brought it on itself by our support of Saudi Arabia yet cant say how.
What about desert storm was that an attack on muslims?
Do you remeber who supported the fghanis n thier fight against the soviet union?
Who gave them Stinger surface to air missles to knock down the sovet Hinds whhch were decimating the local populaton?
You wanna talk you wanna debate the you have to do so in a logical manner.
Throwing out accusatons without thought or evidence and insulting those who disagree with you is the mark of a feeble mind.
Prove you have a strong enough mind to contrbut to ATS.


kix

posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:05 AM
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Fearless predictions:

The killing will continue, war will be bloodier, the US will eventually leave (with no more money) and 200 to 500 million Muslims will have a concrete reason to hate the U.S.

welcome to the 21 century...! now where is my flying saucer ?

oh BTW all wars kill inocent civilians fredom fighter or not, insurgents or not terrorists or not INNOCENTS always die, bottom line we havent learned NOTHING in 5000 years



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 11:06 AM
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cstyle

Could way say your view is like "Cowboys & Indians"

This time when the Cowboys started to invade, the Indians realised, we cant let them win, It was wrong when the Cowboys took the land from the Indians in America, so this time we wont let the Cowboys take our land here in the desert.

Just trying to make a point, History always repeats itself, and such the Cowboys will win and the poor Indians will suffer.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 12:10 PM
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I tend to over-simplify things, so I do apologize if the following is a GROSS over-simplification, but what the hell:

-> All mankind deserves happiness
-> Individuals are free to determine their own happiness definitions
-> As long as the happiness you seek doesn't directly impact your fellow human being in a negative [that needs to be defined] way, then you are free to pursue that happiness
-> A belief in a higher power/set of values/system of morals [aka religion] is fine and dandy

These are like the I ROBOT laws of robotics, but only for HUMANS.

Now, let us consider that RELIGION, as a foundation of moral, ethical and belief systems has it's place among those natural laws of man (defined, above). If that is true, then when RELIGION comes into CONFLICT with those laws, isn't that a problem?

To wit:

ISLAM preaches that a Muslim should invoke a 'fight' against unbelievers. This can be further defined (by Radical Islamicists) that the 'fight' can be defined as a Jihad, or struggle. That can be further refined to include acts of terrorism. This is why Radical Muslims do not see wrong in their killing of bystanders (who happen to also be Muslim), in that the struggle includes them and they [this is my own interpretation] should be happy to participate in the fight, even if it means their death.

BOILING THIS DOWN TO THE NITTY GRITTY: As a non-religious person [but one having belief in a higher power], I can honestly saw that I consider any religion (or any conflict of the laws of man, above) to be a HAZZARD to my WELL BEING.

If this all can be really simplified: I believe that we are at war, as humans, against EACH OTHER because of the violation of the laws of man, ABOVE. There is no understanding of TERRORISM, because it violates the laws of man, ABOVE. There is no comprehension, or support I can lend to people wishing, willing and able to take my life.

I value life. Many people do. Some religions, however, preach that life AFTER death is the value to be considered, and therefore go about vigorously promoting DEATH as a method to remain obedient to their own religion's Jihadi requirements. In effect, because you subscribe to a given religion, you are therefore religiously-required to subscribe to it's rules, including the taking of life of others that don't believe (and also that persecute you, or wish YOU harm).

I truly want to never have to take this personal stance to action -- but I will if I am forced into that position. I will defend my liberty of mankind for my own desires, and I will do so with vigor and strength if that is required.

I truly wish NO ONE ill will nor harm, except WHEN THEY WISH ME HARM. Unfortunately, only the presence of aliens or some mankind-changing event will change things on this earth away from what I have described.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 12:29 PM
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Funny you should say something "big" must happen to prevent man from killing man. Seems I read something like that will happen, maybe in a really old book...Revelations maybe. All my life I have been taught that I would someday be forced to worship a false god. That time approaches readily. Islam may be that false religion. Allah is not "GOD" nor any other past "human" except one.

cstyle226 must be very young (clinical observation from a psyc HACK) and in over his head. Forgive his ignorance, but he is a great example of why the world must fear Islam. He is brainwashed and has no specific reason for his "hate".



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Thinker
The truth will come and the liar's will be exposted then you will know the lord.

Great! That's all we need are more religious fanatics.
Give me a f'ing break!



Originally posted by Majic
Perhaps these days we are getting too fat, dumb and happy for our well-being, but even a nation of obese couch-potatoes such as ours can still muster some serious whoop-ass when the need arises, and that is the foundation of our strength.

Well, that and our self-righteous arrogance. Both are national treasures of ours.

Should we lose either, we will lose all.

The problem is, you need to figure out who needs the whoop ass. Start with our own politicians. Arrogance is not a treasure. You speak some serious BS.
Another thing; Americans aren't happy. Most are beside themselves with fear or anger. They're actually quite pathetic, IMO.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Damned]



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 04:15 PM
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Napoleon once said " History is a mutually agreed set of lies"...

A hooligan is a hooligan on any night of the year except new years where he is a reveller.

If a terrorist wins his battle, he is a freedom fighter, if he loses he's a terrorist.

The real question which should be asked is why people are compelled to become terrorists in the first place, is it because political change is not possible, and then terrorism is the only form of expression for the desire for change.

Or is it that terrorism has become big business, where soldiers of fortune are paid six figures into swiss bank accounts to manipulate world events, supposedly in the name of an oppressed minority.

Or is it entirely both, suitably spun by the media to appear to be the same thing.....



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by Damned

Originally posted by Thinker
The truth will come and the liar's will be exposted then you will know the lord.

Great! That's all we need are more religious fanatics.
Give me a f'ing break!



Agreed on that...but...


... Americans aren't happy. Most are beside themselves with fear or anger.


I challange you to prove this generalization. I am not angry or afraid and I'm actually pretty happy. I'm not worried about the soveregnty of our nation. I'm proud of our people for making the right choice (as I see it) for President. Dell is getting ready to build a huge computer plant in my area so it looks to me as if the economy is picking up as well.

Maybe what you really meant to say was that YOU are angry and afraid. Maybe not, but regardless, I'll thank you to stop speaking for other Americans like myself who don't agree with the words or emotions you ascribe to us.

That being said, I'd like to ask cstyle226 if he thinks he could go to Saudi Arabia, the center of Islam, and say something very critical and contrary about Islam outloud while standing in front of a Mosque. Try saying any of the derogatory things about one of their clerics that gets said about our President day in and day out. I'm curious if cstyle226 thinks he would make it out of there alive, or at least undamaged. To close this point, let me say that in the USA, I can go stand in front of ANY church of ANY faith and say ANYTHING I want without feeling ANY fear at all. The law protects me from the church that may not like what I say and that is one of the reasons that we are free and those in Islamic States are not. This is also the reason that those who direct Islam will fight Western Civilization no matter what we do or how much money we give. Heck, we could nuke Isreal for them and they would still seek our destruction if for no other reason than that we believe differently, the stupidest and most petty of reasons from a stupid, petty, and destructive religion.

Disclaimer:
The above is my opinion. Anything in it could be wrong. If I thought you would agree with it, I probably wouldn't have bothered to type it out. I couldn't care less if you approve of it.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
I challange you to prove this generalization. I am not angry or afraid and I'm actually pretty happy. I'm not worried about the soveregnty of our nation. I'm proud of our people for making the right choice (as I see it) for President. Dell is getting ready to build a huge computer plant in my area so it looks to me as if the economy is picking up as well.

You're not worried about drugs, crime, abortion, religion, homosexuals, or any of the other things most Americans seem to spend so much time worrying about? We obviously have different views on politics.


Maybe what you really meant to say was that YOU are angry and afraid. Maybe not, but regardless, I'll thank you to stop speaking for other Americans like myself who don't agree with the words or emotions you ascribe to us.

Nope. I don't even fear death, so why would I fear anything else, besides severe pain? I see America in a competely different light than you, apparently. I see people that are constantly annoyed at anyone who is different than they are. People who don't speak english, people who use drugs, people with different ideas....etc. The "annoyance" translates to fear or hatred, no matter how you look at it. We're at war on everything, in case you haven't noticed. Not because it's necessarily dangerous, but merely because it scares people. Do you have children? I'm sure you fear for them from time to time, don't you? So many people want to get the jump on fear and stop he negative future from happening. It's become such a paranoia, that now we're willing to take pre-emptive action against anything and everything. It's been that way for awhile, and now it appears this has also become our foreign policy.

Stop the drug users, BEFORE they do something wrong. Stop the drunk drivers, BEFORE they hurt someone. Stop the criminals, BEFORE they commit a crime. Stop the terrorists, BEFORE they commit acts of terror.

It's gotten really out of hand.
All of our policies are dedicated to stopping things BEFORE they happen, which really isn't possible. It's actually become policy to arrest people who appear to be in a situation that might eventually lead to a crime. So, non-criminals are being arrested for the mere possibility that their intentions might be leaning toward a crime, instead of arresting people after they commit a crime. As far as I know, no one can fortell the future yet. Can you? This is a very dangerous policy we've inherited. You've seen the movie "Minority Report," right? That's where we're headed, IMO.



[edit on 11-11-2004 by Damned]



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