perhaps not a GOD, but definitely a GAP

I would say that if the Universe is a hologram what rational explanation would exist for a holographic Universe to develop consciousness???

reply to post by Kashai


I really would like to just speculate.... to just riff on this question and see where it leads.

but what I have already written in this thread I take far to seriously to demean it with something that I cannot stand behind fully. so I will decline to comment. (not that anyone is reading this thread or, of the ones that have, give me enough credibility that I actually understand what the hell I am talking about.)

I had this idea today that I might write the definitive thread on quantum theory, using my expert knowledge of digital signal modulation onto analog radio frequency carrier. this, really, is the source of my in-depth understanding of quantum theory, which is at the center of radio communications. i am fairly certain i could bring everybody on board. but alas. I think I have somehow alienated the audience. I think that, secretly, everyone would just prefer to believe in Feynman's quote: that noone nowhere can know nothing. people, ESP. ATS, seem tho prefer it. what a shame.

sorry bout my bitchy rant.


the end.

Originally posted by tgidkp


I did not purposely ignore those replies, but instead opted to try and establish a better foundation for further discussion. actually, I think that your position on entanglement is also correct, though I do not agree with the reasoning upon which it is based. IMO you are right, but perhaps you don't know WHY you're right. but then again, neither, really, do I.

Why do you not agree on the reasoning? Why dont I know why I am right?

Originally posted by tgidkp


yes. that is definitely not what i am advocating. in fact, just the opposite:

our observation of the wavefunction allows it to persist as a relative uncertainty. and as that uncertainty "makes an appeal" to each higher level of the cosmos, we experience the perception of time as moving in the top-down, or reciprocal, direction.

our consciousness has nothing to do with the decoherence (collapsing) of ANY wavefunction. our consciousness is an artifact (or perhaps, even, the NULL level) of the coherence of ALL wavefunctions.

Out of all of my replies that one sentence is what you choose to respond to? Now I know why noone gives your threads a chance, count me as a part of that list from now on. It seems you already have your answers and enjoy stroking your holographic ego more then partaking in discussion.

reply to post by tgidkp


In all sincerity your point would have had more credibility had you opened your argument, that he OP was exclusively related to the idea that we are holograms. It may bother you that in relation to the idea that we are holograms many people are prepared to tell you that is a much of baloney.


Feynman alluded to time travel but of course this is not a correct interpretation. So an obvious point is how can a three dimensional construct, be capable of comprehending space-time?


It is a obvious argument in relation go the idea that we are simply 3 dimensional.

Further and within the context of dimension and with respect to space-time, there is the issue of dimensions upon structure. Given the parameters in question a simple issue is the effect upon the structure of an atom.

Dimensions that are curved by space-time have a valid effect upon particles in the atom.

So here is a question, what does DNA have to do in relation to space-time dimensional curvature???

Any thoughts?

In all sincerity your argument present that life physically (in so far as we understand it) formed in this Universe in physical ignorance of 8 other dimensions.

Please explain why?


In relation to that question what about Quantum Tunneling???

Quantum tunnelling falls under the domain of quantum mechanics: the study of what happens at the quantum scale. This process cannot be directly perceived, but much of its understanding is shaped by the macroscopic world, which classical mechanics can not adequately explain. To understand the phenomenon, particles attempting to travel between potential barriers can be compared to a ball trying to roll over a hill; quantum mechanics and classical mechanics differ in their treatment of this scenario. Classical mechanics predicts that particles that do not have enough energy to classically surmount a barrier will not be able to reach the other side. Thus, a ball without sufficient energy to surmount the hill would roll back down. Or, lacking the energy to penetrate a wall, it would bounce back (reflection) or in the extreme case, bury itself inside the wall (absorption). In quantum mechanics, these particles can, with a very small probability, tunnel to the other side, thus crossing the barrier. Here, the ball could, in a sense, borrow energy from its surroundings to tunnel through the wall or roll over the hill, paying it back by making the reflected electrons more energetic than they otherwise would have been.[9]

The reason for this difference comes from the treatment of matter in quantum mechanics as having properties of waves and particles. One interpretation of this duality involves the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which defines a limit on how precisely the position and the momentum of a particle can be known at the same time.[4] This implies that there are no solutions with a probability of exactly zero (or one), though a solution may approach infinity if, for example, the calculation for its position was taken as a probability of 1, the other, i.e. its speed, would have to be infinity. Hence, the probability of a given particle's existence on the opposite side of an intervening barrier is non-zero, and such particles will appear on the 'other' (a semantically difficult word in this instance) side with a frequency proportional to this probability.

Source

Why are you suggesting that in relation to a hologram an electron. That in general is identified as how we define solidity can interact in referent to 4 dimensions? One can imply many things like the interaction of hot and cold dark matter can in effect generate a rainbow, that being physical reality as we understand it. The problem with that construct is effectively defining reality beyond three dimensions.And of course in relation to the construct of how physical reality developed with respect to say the effect of 4 or for that matter 11 dimensions upon physical matter. Suggesting that life such as us could have formed without such a structure related to space-time?

Alternatively beg the questions as to such as beyond three dimensions as existing. The obvious problem with such a assertion, in relation to generating a mathematical model of our Universe. That incorporates only three dimensions (your proverbial hologram model).

The model effectively fails to produce what in general we today identify as the Universe as we understand it. In relation what dimensions curved by space-time are relevant to development. Relevant to the formation of life and consciousness, due to there inherent participation in nature, despite our inherent inability to understand same?

This due to the fact that our observations are simply the result of internal representations.

Any thoughts?

NVM.

reply to post by tgidkp


In simplistic terms you are suggesting that something like consciousness can exist in only 3 dimensions. Feel free to argue alternatively but you did admit that in your opinion we are three dimensional holograms. In context what is the effect of a forth dimension of space-time upon say a proton? So if you were to observe a proton in its natural state, perceptually what of the 4th dimension would you perceive, beyond what you understand as such prior to any type of venture?

What about the issue of Strange Quarks and there virtual properties with respect to the integrity of the atom in general? How does that in the context of a dimensional parameter fit in with your holographic modeling?

In and out of reality as you understand it but still supporting the structure of an atom?????

Let me emphasize the fact that a virtual particle exits reality, solely as we understand it.

Any thoughts?

Without the Strange (virtual) Quarks there would be no atoms.

They would simply fly apart and this begs the question as to something entering reality as we understand it and disappearing, Only to actually be required for solidity as we understand it, I respect to a qualia that has the potential of being related to special-temporal effects outside of reality as we commonly understand it.

After all how does a virtual strange quark know when to appear so as to support the structure of an atom???

In respect to scale how many dimensions in respect to space-time are involved?

I am not playing games.....

Further

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Kashai


You may not be playing games but you are playing yourself, and any one who considers your thoughtless theories to hold any ground.

You hear the term virtual quarks, and hear that the term 'pop into existence' is used to describe how they interact, so you conclude that they a phenomenon that originates outside of our reality, and has different special-temporal qualities. Great science.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by Kashai

 

You may not be playing games but you are playing yourself, and any one who considers your thoughtless theories to hold any ground.

You hear the term virtual quarks, and hear that the term 'pop into existence' is used to describe how they interact, so you conclude that they a phenomenon that originates outside of our reality, and has different special-temporal qualities. Great science.

You really should spend some time interacting with Indigenous cultures.

reply to post by Kashai


I am intrigued and inspired by your apparent powerful motivation. I do not always understand what you are getting at, and I feel somewhat inundated with this barrage of questions ... but you have spurred my train of thought forward in search of ways to satisfy what it is that (I think) you're getting at.

I am somewhat exhausted this evening, but I do wish to comment further.

thanks for continuing forward.

reply to post by tgidkp


Say for example you do not believe in Dragons. Ok in so far as Western and Eastern Mythos Dragons existed an in that regard they seemed to insist it was possible. Mammals in the form of bats can fly, of course there are birds and with respect to Whales, dolphins and fish they essentially fly though water.

So what is wrong with Amphibians and Reptiles? why is it impossible to present in that in relation to human history Lizards could fly.


What about horses with a single horn on their forehead and as such the proverbial Unicorn. Horses are hooved animals. So what other hooved animals are you familiar with that have horns?

In such animals what is often the content of those horns, Hair?

As I have made clear I am really into critical thinking.

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Kashai


I have, I am a 'mystic', though logic is absolute and inescapable if one is in search of truth. I dont make up fairy tales and magic to make myself feel good or special, my search for truth is not about me, its not for me, its not for my feelings. You have a very base view of reality, like a child, so quick and easy to accept magic just because some slightly advanced animals have produced thoughts. You want psi abilities to be real, because that would mean something to you, for some reason, I dont care about anything, only exactly what is. If psi abilities are real, what does that mean to you? What is so special about that, that it is your most cherished banner?

reply to post by Kashai

I would say that if the Universe is a hologram what rational explanation would exist for a holographic Universe to develop consciousness???

hey there, buddy.

i have spent some time on a response to the above quoted question.

in it, i hope to show why, while i do agree that the word 'hologram' is useful to describe the overall concept in this thread, what i am talking about is not strictly limited to quantum theory. accordingly, 'hologram' is at best a metaphor.

i hope that you are not insulted, like Fungi was, that i focused myopically on this one question. but i do not think these are easy things to explain.... especially when we are limited to current theories which can sometimes be too small to contain such large concepts.

reply to post by ImaFungi


too bad.

i had not pegged you as a purveyor 'quantum snobbery'.

...just as guilty as him, in my opinion (which no longer matters to you).

reply to post by ImaFungi


Given it is correct then this is about energy and a another way for mankind to relate to it.

The way you have apparently stereotyped me is so very far from the type of person I am (perhaps we are revisiting some genetic memories left behind from recent history).

In reality you have never been exposed to an indigenous culture and in reality I have.

Also in reality I have been exposed to western culture so logically once you have been exposed to indigenous cultures. You would then have something intelligent to say and when you get back I will still be here, so we can discuss your experiences.

Time is a form of communication
Consciousness transcends all
states that can be perceived as
matter

Matter communicates the totality
of its existence to consciousness
though time

See am certainly not suggesting you should take me word for it,
So I am wondering why you think I should take yours.

Any thoughts?

reply to post by tgidkp


Quantom snobbery? Do tell what you mean by this? I personally dont know what I think of when I read or see that the believed existence of reality is composed of 'bits/quanta/fields' of different 'energy' quantity and quality. I dont know what reality is, how it works, why its as it is. But I do think science and thinking about (philosophically) what science has uncovered is the only way forward towards knowing anything about reality.

I also would love to hear why you think it is helpful for ones understanding to produce the term hologram in this discussion and your beliefs? Can you be more clear on what you think is holographic about reality, and what is the definition of holographic you are using?

Oh and no hard feelings between us, I didnt mean the perhaps harsh things I said to you, I was just flustered because I took time to express my thoughts on matters which I perceive as most intriguing, and had my hopes up that you would also be interested in discussing these matters. I also dont have a full grasp on where you are coming from with your thoughts and envisionment of the nature of reality, which adds to my frustration, and before you think thats a good high and mighty mysterious positive trait of yours, I dont think so, it just means you have not been able to simply state what it is you think, or the fault may lie in my inability to interpret it.

Originally posted by tgidkp
reply to post by Kashai

 

I would say that if the Universe is a hologram what rational explanation would exist for a holographic Universe to develop consciousness???

hey there, buddy.

i have spent some time on a response to the above quoted question.

in it, i hope to show why, while i do agree that the word 'hologram' is useful to describe the overall concept in this thread, what i am talking about is not strictly limited to quantum theory. accordingly, 'hologram' is at best a metaphor.

i hope that you are not insulted, like Fungi was, that i focused myopically on this one question. but i do not think these are easy things to explain.... especially when we are limited to current theories which can sometimes be too small to contain such large concepts.

Nah man I am not sore

The problem I have with a hologram in the strictest definition of the word is that of evolutionary theory.

Which is kind of funny in a way with respect to the angst.

Yes like in the thought experiment of the 4 blind men and the elephant.....

The story of the blind men and an elephant originated in the Indian subcontinent from where it has widely diffused. It has been used to illustrate a range of truths and fallacies. At various times it has provided insight into the relativism, opaqueness or inexpressible nature of truth, the behavior of experts in fields where there is a deficit or inaccessibility of information, the need for communication, and respect for different perspectives.

It is a parable that has crossed between many religious traditions and is part of Jain, Buddhist, Sufi and Hindu lore. The tale is also well known in Europe. In the 19th century the poet John Godfrey Saxe created his own version as a poem.[1] Since then, the story has been published in many books for adults and children, and interpreted in an ever-increasing variety of ways.

Source

reply to post by Kashai


I already told you I have experienced and studied indigenous cultures. I am aware of methods, myths and beliefs and thoughts and feelings associated with. What is your point? A new way to interact with energy, what do you propose, are you speaking of prayer? Or should everyone smash there phones and computers and start concentrating on telepathy? Or are you insinuating telepathy can be more successful with us waiting for biological evolution to advance it, then we can ourselves with 'artificial' technological implementation of such concepts and, for you at least, necessary desires. I for one have no desire to read someones mind, or receive words and ideas from another mind the seconds faster it would be then if they were to just speak or write whats on their mind.