F-35 Delayed - Updated F-15's/16's may be needed

Langley AFB:

According to Lt. Col. Gregory Johnson, Deputy Chief of the JSF system management organization, the costs attached to the recent re-engineering of the F-35 Joint Strke Fighter will delay it's introduction into the US military by up to 2 years, (from 2011 to 2013).

The re-engineering of the aircraft was caused by the need to drastically reduce weight in all 3 versions, the Conventional Take Off & Landing (CTOL), the Carrier Variant (CV), and the Short Take-Off & Landing version (STOVL). Earlier this fall, Lockheed Martin managed to trim 2,700 pounds from the STOVL design, and 1,500 pounds from both the CTOL and CV versions.

Although this effort was successful it has delayed the aircraft's development schedule. Apparently undaunted however was acting Pentagon acquisition chief Michael Wynne who gave the "full steam ahead" approval on the design changes and wieght reduction implementations.

Not only did Wynne approve the updated design, he also signed off on awarding �a transition contract on an incrementally funded basis for the F136 engine in a manner consistent with preparing for system development and demonstration,�
This is noteworthy because there are 2 potential JSF engines; The Pratt & Whitney F135 engine and the General Electric F136 engine.
The F135 engine is considered "cutting edge" and consists of a 3-stage fan, a 6-stage compressor, an annual combustor, a single stage high-pressure turbine, and a 2 stage low-pressure turbine.
The F136 consists of a 3-stage fan, 5-stage compressor, a 3-stage low-pressure turbine section and a single stage high-pressure turbine.

Although Service Chief of Staff Gen. John Jumper stated at the 2004 Air and Space Technology Conference that the USAF is looking to buy the F-35 STOVL variant �in the hundreds�, ACC chief Gen. Hal Hornburg has said that the USAF will not decide on its force requirements until �well after F/A-22 IOC and as JSF comes aboard.� Those decisions will become more urgent �if any program is fundamentally delayed,� he said. �Then we�re going to have to re-look at what the other programmatics would be to keep this same net capability on the books for our AEFs.�

Bridging the technology gap:

It's important to note that each time the F-35 program calendar changes, the ACC has to consider pushing up modernization efforts on its older legacy platforms. Gen. Hornburg added that �We absolutely need this airplane�... �But as it continues to..." hit delays ... "then I have to look at: do I want to spend some of that money to modernize other airplanes like F-15Es or F-16s?�

The F-35 is not in trouble, but the delays in acquisition may very well bring about the need for updated versions of current fighter aircraft inventory.
What is intriguing about General Hornburg's statement is the question he has regarding updating the F-15 & 16's. What type of technology would help bridge the gap between the F-15/16's and the F-35?

Well, there have been test versions of both the F-15 and the F-16 that utilized vectored exhaust for substantially increased manueverability.

Could it be such aircraft might actually become operational in an effort to bridge the technology gap until the F-35 begins it's operational capability?

The F-16 Vista/MATV - a vectored thrust experimental aircraft
Able to accomplish exotic manuevers such as the cobra.



The F-15 Active - a vectored thrust
experimental variant of the F-15



More:

This information is not currently available online - the most info I could find online on this comes from:
The Inside Defense Newsstand

Additional Information:
F-15 Active
F-16 vectored thrust
F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

Related ATS Thread:
Lockheed-Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)




[edit on 10-11-2004 by intelgurl]

Is there a possible fit for the F16-XL? Is there a migration path for an existing F-16 to the lamanar flow wing on the XL?

Does the addition of additional hardpoints available on the XL fill a need the F-35 was going to fill?

=-Rich

They should not upgrade there current planes, they should stick with them until the JSF.

I personaly hate it when they do this, they take money from the F-35 to upgrade the fleet that their trying to replace, while then the spiral effect then sets the F-35's date back further, which then makes its order number fall which makes the price per plane go up, so on and so on.

This is for intelgurl, You might as well place F-35's, etc in the roundfile considering developmental " Flying Aircraft Carriers" with pilotless drones carrying antiship, AA, ARM, Hellfire, Extended range Cruise missiles,etc. Where the In flight aircraft carrier is the launch platform and command post. Kind Regards, Abajootz

Originally posted by abajootz
This is for intelgurl, You might as well place F-35's, etc in the roundfile considering developmental " Flying Aircraft Carriers" with pilotless drones carrying antiship, AA, ARM, Hellfire, Extended range Cruise missiles,etc. Where the In flight aircraft carrier is the launch platform and command post. Kind Regards, Abajootz

That's great!
And just who did you say had the contract on this "Flying Aircraft Carrier" project concept - and how much money has been allocated for this development?
Links would be nice...

a flying aircraft carrier would be rather dangerous,exspensive,ineffective,vunerable and a massive under takeing.
now a UCAV is fine but they dont offer the same kind of skill as a fighter pilot on the scene. i mean a camera can get damaged and you wont see anything. a UCAV is the cheap way to replace fighters. now a plane with a fully trained pilot can out do a UCAV in combat with a computer nerd at the back, there is the jamming bit as well and the whole delay thing.

I do not believe that the time will be moved as far back as you have stated.

FORT WORTH, Texas , October 28, 2004 -- Initial integration testing of the Communication, Navigation and Identification (CNI) suite for the first flight of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter has begun at Lockheed Martin�s [NYSE: LMT] Mission Systems Integration Lab (MSIL) in Fort Worth.


The initial tests of the first-flight CNI suite verified the operation of UHF and VHF communication, radar altimeter, intercom, integrated caution and warning, and identification-friend-or-foe capabilities. Over a three-week period the team tested each capability, generating early confidence in the system�s design and stability.

Assembly of the first F-35 is under way, with first flight planned for 2006.

"The F-35�s first-flight CNI system is being integrated into the Mission Systems Integration Lab and initial tests were flawless," said Bob Elrod, Lockheed Martin executive vice president and F-35 JSF program general manager. �The success of these early tests highlights the contributions and teamwork of multiple team partners, and helps to keep the F-35�s first-flight schedule on track.�

The F-35�s first-flight CNI system was designed and integrated by Northrop Grumman�s Space Technology sector, mostly using current-inventory federated systems. Northrop Grumman developed a customized interface adaptor unit to serve as the �interpreter� between these off-the-shelf components and the F-35�s displays and controls.

Hardware and software integration of the F-35�s integrated CNI suite will begin soon at Northrop Grumman�s Radio Systems lab facilities in San Diego.

The F-35 is a next-generation, supersonic, multi-role stealth aircraft designed to replace the AV-8B Harrier, A-10, F-16, F/A-18 Hornet and the United Kingdom�s Harrier GR.7 and Sea Harrier. Three F-35 variants � a conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL), a short-takeoff/vertical-landing (STOVL) and a carrier variant (CV) � each derived from a common design will ensure that the F-35 meets the performance needs of the U.S. Air Force, Marine Corps, Navy, the U.K. Royal Air Force and Royal Navy, and allied defense forces worldwide, while staying within strict affordability targets.................


Rest at www.lockheedmartin.com...

Weight problems have been fixed and production on the first aircraft has continued.

[edit on 11/11/04 by jetsetter]

[edit on 11/11/04 by jetsetter]

Originally posted by abajootz
This is for intelgurl, You might as well place F-35's, etc in the roundfile considering developmental " Flying Aircraft Carriers" with pilotless drones carrying antiship, AA, ARM, Hellfire, Extended range Cruise missiles,etc. Where the In flight aircraft carrier is the launch platform and command post. Kind Regards, Abajootz

- are you seriously talking about a flying aircraft carrier? or just kidding?

back in the day

One great thing about the delays in the JSF is that the Netherlands, which already has out-year budget allocated for them, now will probably take the money and upgrade their fleet of AH-64D Longbow Apaches to the Block 3 configuration, with the work being done here in Mesa.

As far as upgrading the Lockmart F-16 or the Boeing F-15 as interim aircraft, I do not see that happening at all. Perhaps the services would order more of the latest block mods, but, given the need for all the non-recurring IOT&E funds, as well as a huge logistics tail for anything new, it just wouldn't be cost-effective to upgrade either Aluminum Rodan or the Lawn Dart unless they cancelled both the F-22 and F-35 -- which, of course, they won't.

Anyone remembering the terrible labor pains for the (stillborn) F-20 can understand how a logistics tail can kill an aircraft -- no matter how well designed -- deader'n a doornail.

One very possible benefit to Boeing, given the delays in fielding the JSF (besides the Netherlands Apache upgrades) would be a need for additional F/A-18E/F and EA-18s for the Navy and the Marines.

From Janes:

Slimmed-down JSF back on track
Lockheed Martin has announced that its design team has managed to shed problem weight from the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), reduce drag and up the propulsion efficiency of its innovative Pratt and Whitney power plant, to get the aircraft back to its fighting weight.

Beautiful shot of one of the USNs Large Zepplin Airships of the 1920s and 30s. There was the "Los Angeles" the "Macon and the "Akron" from memory. The parasite fighters were trialled on the Macon from memory using a trapeze set up where the aircraft could launch recover and be hauled up into the hangar for maintenance. The idea was to provide up to four fighters for self defence and a couple of observation planes for spotting duties. I believe the experimental fighters were Curtiss Sparrowhawk biplane fighters. I don't know if they built the Observation aircraft. I beleive at least 2 of the three airships were lost in severe storms, killing the project.

It was resurected by the USAF at the end of WW2 to provide a very ugly and stubby little jet fighter for special B-29s called the Hobgoblin (experimental only) and tested in the late 40s and early 50s on specially modified Convair B-36 Peacemakers under the FICON (FIghter Carried ON) project using a specially modified Thunderjet Fighter....for the purposes of fighter escort on nuclear missions against the USSR in the 1950s.

In one of my books I have a couple of nice shots of the USN Airships, inclusing LA approaching the mooring mast at (is it) Lakehurst, NJ. There are also close up photos from the launch station onboard of them launching a Sparrowhawk during trials.

Sorry.Back on topic.

[edit on 12-11-2004 by craigandrew]

"It was resurected by the USAF at the end of WW2 to provide a very ugly and stubby little jet fighter for special B-29s called the Hobgoblin (experimental only) and tested in the late 40s and early 50s on specially modified Convair B-36 Peacemakers under the FICON (FIghter Carried ON) project using a specially modified Thunderjet Fighter....for the purposes of fighter escort on nuclear missions against the USSR in the 1950s."

Actually, it was the "Goblin", one of the early McDonnell Aircraft Corporation (later McDonnell Douglas, now Boeing) designs, which, like the post-WWII seaplane designs, died from lack of a mission caused by changing capabilities and conditions.

Interestingly enough, old Jim McDonnell (long since passed on to the Big Hanger in the Sky, although his widow is still alive) seemed to be very interested in the afterlife, which is why -- say some of the older employees who actually remember him -- he gave spirit names to many of his aircraft: Banshee, Voodoo, Phantom, etc.

Anyway, here's the Goblin:





[edit on 12-11-2004 by Off_The_Street]

Originally posted by jetsetter
I do not believe that the time will be moved as far back as you have stated.

I'm just going by what Lt. Col. Gregory Johnson, Deputy Chief of the JSF System Management Organization said at a meeting at Langley last week. His assessment was that the F-35's weight-loss program delayed the IOC by as little as 1 yr and as much as 18 months.
This is something that ACC chief Gen. Hal Hornburg has collaborated as well.
I hope you're right though, 'cause we need it operational ASAP.

[edit on 12-11-2004 by intelgurl]

I remember there were once proposals for nuclear-powered bombers with up to six parasitic fighters (much larger than the Goblin). With nucleonic (Hafnium) reactors, nuclear powered aircraft may become a practical reality once more. Unfortunately the site which hosted it, www.ufx.org... appears to be no longer in existence so I can't post anything for you folks.

However, I managed to rescue a single small image from the Google image database.



As for the F-35, I seriously am doubting whether it will ever become operational. Not with drones coming along the way they are, as well as other experimental or highly advanced black world stuff...

F-35 Update

I just hope all the money being spent on this beautiful jet that its not going to get-the-boot in the future.

The model, manufactured by Advanced Technologies, Inc., of Newport News, Va., is being used to measure installed antenna pattern, gain and phase measurements for the F-35�s Communication, Navigation & Identification (CNI) and Electronic Warfare (EW) systems.

F-35 tests