Can whites be victims of racism?

Of course anyone can be racist to any other culture by the technical meaning of the term. But only a fool would draw an equivalence between white and black or white and hispanic racial experience in the US. And that means that non-whites are by circumstance and history more apt to be racially stigmatised, and that the tools to do so are nearer to hand.

There is a disturbing need in the US to appropriate the language of prejudice - to suggest that black people are the sole "actual racists" and "race baiters". That since everything is a level playing field now (a laughable assertion) it's black people who are in fact engaged in prejudice - and a form of entitlement - when they suggest that racially prejudiced structures still operate in America. This is an oversimplification based somewhere between fear and privilege, I guess.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I would like to know if I can accuse my indian manager of racism if that is indeed what it is. I work on weekends with him solo and I am a frontline supervisor.my co workers are both african american and I am the only white person at the frontline. On weekends whenever I want to take tea I am being screamed at that I can not take my tea or lunch,and if I did,when I come back,I get screamed at again!he never does this with the other two colleagues of mine. Sunday afternoon past 12:00 I clocked out as usual to go take a tea break,my first of the day,and when he saw me go out he shouted at me again and said that if I leave the store I shouldn't even think of coming back, I can just stay away.he did this on the floor in front of customers,but because it was really loud in the store nobody could really hear it. My other supervisor had by then already taken tea. That evening I posted on facebook that he threatened me and I was not allowed to go eat something in my tea time.i also said he was a racist,but I did not name anybody in the post. Now I am being subject to a hearing over the differential treatment I am receiving from a manager. I did try at a previous occasion to tell the store manager about the unfair treatment I a receiving but he took the assistant manager's side over mine.can anyone help with advice please?it would be appreciated a lot.thanks

At work ive been subjected to racism in my own country, from foreigners, and iam white and am fed up with the animosity i get from these people,their insults and bad attitude ! if i retaliate iam a Racist ! they come to my country with an obnoxious ME FIRST attitude, and if they dont get a job promotion they apply for, they scream racism then get the promotion ,they rort the whole system with workers compensation with fake injuries etc ,im sick of them ,they want all the overtime ,and if you do any,they accuse you of being money hungry and greedy ,white people these days are guilt tripped into shutting the F..k up, OR ELSE !!!!!!!!!!!! im fed up with it ! and them, and the Political Partys that grovel to them especially the fake refugees that get put up in expensive Hotels ,big money handouts, when they are playing us and the country for gullible soft fools ,if there ultimately isnt a backlash ,we ourselves will have to find another country to live in and fat chance of finding one by that time will be too late

a reply to: Krazysh0t



Dude, I have had this discussion like 100 times with a variety of friends and social justice activists. I agree with 100%. Racism is totally possible against White People.

And you are also 100% correct that if you and I say that, a checklist of diversions are offered:
1) "Racism" only means institutionalized oppression, and because whites have more power therefore minorities cannot be racist." Unfortunately, this is not true, because racism is ALSO defined as interpersonal or intergroup prejudice based on race even without power.
2) "Certain minority groups have experienced far more racism, through slavery, institutions, Jim Crow, etc. Therefore you Whites need to stop playing the victim and we don't want to hear about prejudice against Whites." The second most commonly trumpeted deflection, it fails because it is a binary magnitude argument, that because one group has experienced more that the other group (whites) haven't experienced any. Logically fallacious
3) "Because we don't have power and oppressive ability, prejudicial or hateful statements we make towards whites can't count as racism and it's okay. Deal with it." Fundamentally ignores how harmful and divisive interpersonal racism can be. Tries to give license to bad behavior on the part of some minority people because some of their people have been harmed by racism. Two wrongs don't make a right.
4) The absolute worse possibly: "You disagree with us that Whites can experience racism only because a) you are ignorant of history and racism b) you are a closet racist c) you are deluded by 'white privilege. These are the only reasons you might disagree with the narrative."

Unfortunately, this entire narrative and the way in which these conversations unfold are making me want to bow out and stop engaging. Me, a person very serious about ending racism, and one who has worked professionally in social justice for almost 10 years.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

Heh just thought of a new logical fallacy. Appeal to race fallacy.

But yes you are right, there is no such thing as reverse racism. To even call it that suggests that it is a different type of racism and therefore subject to difference rules and stigmas. All racism is the same and all of it should be spoken out against.

This is the main point that the people who say "minorities can't be racist against Whites" or "You are deflecting and minimizing 'real racism' by bringing up racism against whites" don't get.

If racism/prejudice/hate is bad, and harmful, and wrong, then it needs to be called out in every direction. It doesn't magically become okay because it is against whites.

And for those who think its okay, whether out of their own anger or out of ignorance, I would ask if they really understand why racism/prejudice/stereotyping/hatred is wrong?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
reply to post by caladonea

 

Wow what a story. I feel for you. That would be a very tense situation for anyone. The sad thing is that if the skin colors were reversed, that story could gain widespread attention and those individuals would be tracked down and sentenced to some race related crime. Yet because you are white, no one cares. I bet if you went to a media outlet and told your story you'd be laughed right out of the building too.

This double standard is a small tumor growing in our midst. If it keeps getting deliberately ignored or downplayed, eventually it will grow into a very dangerous tumor. All big social issues end up that way do to neglect and kicking the can down the road. Widespread hatred for blacks didn't spring up overnight, small bits of racial intolerance were compiled over generations until it was so ingrained that you couldn't call it anything but hatred. It took over 100 years to tackle that issue and the ramifications of that hatred still effect many today.

Exactly, these stories, and especially where a white person actually gets jumped, show that minority on white racism isn't just magically innocent or harmless because "institutions are not stacked against whites." If our friend in the story had been stabbed, does it not matter because housing policy isn't biased against them or because his/her ancestors did not experience slavery? lol.

I agree 100% that this double standard is absolutely horrible. As I get older, more and more it is becoming very frustrating and divisive to me.

And, the prevailing social justice community refuses to admit that it exists. They will mock you or ostracize you if you bring it up in public. I have had that happen to me by white, black, and hispanic activist friends in the context of this EXACT discussion.

For me, I too experienced people of other races say hateful things to me a couple of times. I also went to a school where half of the kids were bussed in from East Palo Alto, CA, one of the worst ghettos in the US. All of the time african american kids would push around white kids and call them cracker, little white boy, etc. I've also seen people do hateful things as grown ups. One time I was dancing at a club with friends and some people of another race clearly and audibly said with a sneer: "Look at little white boy trying to dance." I was furious. It still makes me mad.

This helped me to understand a little how bad it feels to be treated with prejudice, purely based on race. It makes me want make sure I don't do it, nor put up with others doing it. This conversation COULD be an amazing opportunity for people of various races to understand each other, a learning moment. Instead, too many people refuse to acknowledge that it goes both ways.

originally posted by: polarwarrior
"Can whites be victims of racism?"

At the moment no, not in the same way as blacks.

But if blacks rose up tomorrow and enslaved the whites, used them to get rich and build a country, then even when they let the whites go they still segregated, oppressed, and lynched them. Then after decades of oppression whites had a civil rights movement and tried to reach equality, but afterwards there was still segregation and oppression. And then even decades later when the first white president since bush made it into power, whites still overwhelming made up the lower class while blacks still made up the majority of the upper class. THEN the blacks would be racist in the SAME way whites are now. Then things would be equal.

Considering the background as context, the n-word and c-words are NOT equally hurtful.

It is our duty to be sensitive to the oppressed race's past and if putting up with a double standard is the worst thing we have to endure then whites are getting off extremely lightly here. If I was black I'm not sure I could forgive and forget so easily - many alive today lived through jim crows etc.

But playing the whites as victim in all of this (like so many ats threads are doing now) is really twisted.

Even trying to paint whites as equally victimized by racism is America is just wrong, I'm really getting sick of the sob stories about white oppression.

Eh, but you failed on the dismissal of the entire thread. Note my post several up on common deflections used to stop such conversations. You used one of them just now: "Because African Americans have experienced more oppression and institutionalized racism, therefore racism against whites can't exist and we cannot discuss it at all."

Do you not understand that this is either really deflective or even manipulative.

I for one know 100% about the oppressive history, racism, classism, you name it, in this country. I fight actively against racism against minority groups AND work in poverty and non-profit work with many people of those groups.

This is NOT mutually exclusive with my or the thread discussing the fact that sometimes, some white people DO experience racism at the hands of SOME minorities. Is it equal in power to what the minorities have experienced? no. Does it magically make prejudice against whites okay or us unable to discuss it? NO NO NO. Do you see the difference?

Can we just get to the part where the civil war ends? I'm beginning to hate myself for hating others. I can't be a victim of racism. I refuse to give it power. I'll change the outcome in my favor. The victim mentality is a sickness. I'll never become the victim. I can't change anyone else. I wouldn't want to change anyone. I know it's in your best interest to rid yourself of the victim mentality. It will be easy to control you when the time comes if you don't. Check out history. Victims lose period.