Putting the final nail into modern science's coffin

Op... I think you set yourself up with this sentence.... in that, the Xtrian Inquisitor is the one who doesn't understand the principles of Science.

But to add even more insult to injury, they also adhere to these old, out-dated, terribly deficient and embarrassing concepts.

I liked this analogy of apples and bullets...

Originally posted by Maxatoria
Perhaps what we should remember is science is the knowledge of what we can prove...we can say that if you have two apples in one hand and two in the other then you have 4 apples and you can test it out as many times as you want and the number will never change....and for the bible belt if you have 2 rounds in a clip and add another 2 then you will have 4 rounds and it doesn;t matter how many times you repeat the experiment, pray to jesus you will have 4 which means its a scientific fact that 2 of something added to 2 of something will equal 4 every time

This made me think... let's take it up a notch into the next dimension/or forward in time, so to speak... You have 4 apples, within the average apple is 5 seeds... hence 20 seeds approx. Plant these 20 seeds and you're guaranteed to get a variety of different apples with the probability of entirely new varieties of apples. In each apple seed is a multifarious orchard of possibilities.

Hhhmmm... damn shame bullets don't grow on trees.

This might sound a stupid question, but couldn't ionised plasma, or electromagnetic energy effecting the universe on a sub-atomic scale be the 'Dark Energy' that science is looking for? It could be that both Newtonian physics and EU are both occurring, but on different scales....

reply to post by Wyrdnews


No. EU is not scientific. There are factors in play we don't understand yet, EU isn't it, might as well claim it's magic.

reply to post by CircleOfDust


"I know of two things that go to infinity. The universe and the stupidity of man.

I'm not to sure about the universe ".

Albert Einstien

Originally posted by Evil_Santa

Originally posted by CircleOfDust
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

And who decided that he was wrong on both counts? you? Einstein? Nobody has arrived at his genius to stand in judgment. Electricity does travel faster than light, and mass and energy are not interchangeable. E=mc2, how can you just pick a big number like the speed of light arbitrarily?

Uhm, Electricity travels faster than light?

Wow, and to think that fibre-optic networks (ya know.. they use light to communicate, instead of electricity) are 100x the speed of traditional electric networks. You really need to bring this to the attention of the IT world, ASAP, because right now most of the IT world is switching over to FC (Fiber-Channel) NICs (Network Interface Card) because their testing shows that light is faster then electricity.

Oh, yeah. Just to make sure that you understand what's written above, allow me to translate into your native tongue of moron.

HURRRRRRRRRRDURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

edit on 23-7-2013 by Evil_Santa because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-7-2013 by Evil_Santa because: (no reason given)

Are you serious? You're comparing throughput and bandwidth to speed?

Originally posted by SwissMarked
Just wondering (for the sake of stirring the pot) does the electricity generated by a bolt of lighting travel slower than the light that is produced...

I think you'll find just by doing a search on the net that the speed of an EM wave in a vacuum is the same as light. It's all dependent upon the medium. They admit that the speed of light isn't constant. And where is there a real vacuum? Nowhere. The universe hates a vacuum.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by CircleOfDust
That the stark realities of our world show the complete opposite of a progressively upward worldview of evolutionists should be embarrassing enough.

But to add even more insult to injury, they also adhere to these old, out-dated, terribly deficient and embarrassing concepts.

Don't you follow the bible?

Are you serious?

reply to post by Reaper2137


First, this isn't a religious discussion. It's in Science, so stop with the religion crap.

Second, if you want me to play at your game, I'll remind you that the Bible says judge not lest ye be judged. And so if you judge someone else, you are being a hypocrite. And who did Jesus despise above all else? Sinners? No. Hypocrites.

Originally posted by Wyrdnews
This might sound a stupid question, but couldn't ionised plasma, or electromagnetic energy effecting the universe on a sub-atomic scale be the 'Dark Energy' that science is looking for? It could be that both Newtonian physics and EU are both occurring, but on different scales....

You're absolutely right.But they'll never admit it. Don't listen to O's Razor. He doesn't know a thing.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by CircleOfDust

 

"I know of two things that go to infinity. The universe and the stupidity of man.

I'm not to sure about the universe ".

Albert Einstien

Ha! Perfectly put.

reply to post by CircleOfDust


This is where we separate the physicists from the mathematicians. I am both.

Infinity does not exist in reality. It's not even a number in the physical sense. At best it is a cardinal number. But in physics it is an abstract mathematical tool that is used with blatant disregard to mathematical principles. When we use the term infinity, what we mean to say is arbitrarily large quantity, or in physics, large enough so that the system in question is negligibly effected by changes in the quantity.

If you want more proof, consider that you were the size of an electron, just for hypothetical purposes. Your height, weight, stride, everything about you was scaled so that you thought you were the same as you are now. In your lifetime, and anyone of your predecessors lifetimes, you would not be able to traverse what we call a mile in the macroscopic world much less a continent or travel around the world, to the moon, or anything of a reasonably large magnitude. To you these would all seem like infinities. The question is are the magnitudes of these distances well-ordered? Yes we know that they have order. But you would not. To you they are infinite. Saying one infinity is greater than the other is pure nonsense. Many physicists will usually say at this point that there are different magnitudes of infinity because they have heard some mathematician say it at some point. But these are not the same kinds of numbers as the real numbers that you use in physics. No infinity is a real number because you can never get to it.

Now by definition, the universe is the totality of existence. Lets assume that it is expanding...

I want you to think of your computer hard drive which has a finite capacity. To your computer anything beyond that finite capacity is infinite. Lets say you fill it up, your computer will tell you it's full and you go buy another hard drive and hook it up to your computer. Even though the new capacity is larger than the old capacity, the computer now thinks that this larger capacity is finite. This would seem to contradict what I just said. But it doesn't. Your computer is now in a different state than before. This is because in reality, infinity lies beyond what exists in the current state. The same is true for an expanding universe.


It's called logic... I wish some physicists would learn to use it, or at least learn to use the mathematical tools that they throw around with blatant disregard as to whether or not these things make any sense.

reply to post by grey580

This is absolutely the way it should work. However in some cases many scientists are slow to accept and at times even deny things in the face of fact. I guess no one wants to go out and relearn everything they know.

couldn't agree more, there are those who linger much longer than needed, but really, that's a good thing, if every new idea was just seized upon, where is the impetus to actually thoroughly test it?

The problem today is people are ignorant of how science actually works, many of the arguments might have made sense oh, say, in the 1600s. not today, today we require evidence, proof, experiments. Ideas make the world go round, but they are just ideas. Theories are ideas with a plan, but until they are tested, they remain theories, really good ideas at best.

But once you start to experiment, and produce data, you get results that convert theories to facts.

The OP is a perfect example. They are clearly ignorant, at even a basic level, of most of what they are talking about. The assume that scientists just dream up ideas and call them true.

There's always going to be that one guy who just doesn't want to sign on. Einstein for example, HATED quantum theory, hated it's guts. Hated it with a passion. And went so far as to edit parts of his theory to make it work with the experimental data, but never acknowledged that it was related to quantum mechanics.

Dark energy or dark matter, it sounds ridiculous. Yet, the math only works if we include it, and when I say the math, I mean everything. Galaxies, the expansion of the universe, nothing makes sense when we look at the data, it tells us 97% of the universe is missing. If we include that dark energy in there, boom, everything works.

I believe the best proof and example of the effects of dark matter would be galaxies colliding, but good luck spotting that, or living long enough to see it change.

Blackholes were a fringe theory, a crazy idea that couldn't be true, but bam, there they are, all over the place, including super massive ones at the cores of galaxies, including our own, driving us like an engine.

The simple quantum fact displayed in the double slit experiment, for example. Here's a crazy idea. A photon, a single particle of light, only acts like a particle when we measure it, if we don't, it acts like a wave.

According to the DATA, not theory, this is hard factual data, that particle will choose a single slit to enter while being monitored, but if not being monitored, it will travel through both, and interfere with itself, creating an interference pattern that shows it acted as a wave.

It's a completely ridiculous idea, yet, the data smacks you right in the face, it's happening, and not just with photons.

Now look at the age of science and how slow new ideas were adopted up until the 20th century. Now look how fast things become "mainstream". Quantum theory is less than 100 years old, but very few would be arguing against it at this point.

The only ones who would, would be doing so at god's behest.

Originally posted by CircleOfDust
Here's one bit to chew on though. Take one end of a jump rope. Move it up and down slowly, like a wave. then do it faster. Does the wave go the same rate, or does it travel faster?

Since it seems no one else has answered this question: The wave goes the same speed, but the frequency increases. I bet you haven't even tried the experiment yourself, which is why this thread doesn't belong in Science & Technology since the OP is only intent on discussing fantasy and not reality.

Will one of you pseudo eggheads please explain to us?

The mechanism which enables us to remote view?

The "speed of thought, in a vacuum?

Spooky action at a distance being as slow as light speed???(thought it was instantaneous


What the "new quark they just recently "found does and why haven't we realised this before in our modelling of the subatomic world.........obviously we are not even sufficiently grounded in our ``sciences
to be making definitive anything....

A little HUMILITY would be the requirement for further advances in any human endeavours.....would ease the transition from ignorance and intolerance of our fellows world views and thoughts.

Discussion seeks concensus.....group enrichment.
Argument seeks control.over others minds.ie power.....
The trick is groupseek instead of individual dictations.

In its purest sense.....................
Science is the admission of humanity we don't know everything.As well as a collection of what we have found to work most of the time for us.....
Science is the foundation of future searches for knowledge.....
It does not claim ultimate truth merely utilises the practical aspects of its discoveries to enrich humanity.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Why would I believe the IT guys, because they say so? Trust me, electricity is much faster than light.

I'm an IT guy.

The speed at which energy or signals travel down a cable is actually the speed of the electromagnetic wave, not the movement of electrons. Electromagnetic wave propagation is fast and depends on the dielectric constant of the material. In a vacuum the wave travels at the speed of light and almost that fast in air. Propagation speed is affected by insulation, so that in an unshielded copper conductor ranges 95 to 97% that of the speed of light, while in a typical coaxial cable it is about 66% of the speed of light.[1]

Source

This is why we're using fiber optics for major trunks, and is also why we're switching dsl over to fiber. We can use longer cables with fiber, because the signal doesn't degrade in the same fashion it does over copper. We can also cram a hell of a lot more data into each line than traditional dsl can.

The fact that it's faster is just a bonus really, but it is indeed faster, in some cases, 25% or more. It's the medium that slows it down, and light isn't slowing down. Fiber cables also are not affected by electromagnetic interference, so less shielding is required.

There, an IT guy told you, so you can believe it. It's true regardless of the source.

reply to post by stirling

The mechanism which enables us to remote view?

None, it's never been reliably proven to actually take place. Neither have out of body experiences, which is essentially what you are saying.

Spooky action at a distance being as slow as light speed???(thought it was instantaneous

spooky action IS instantaneous AND it's faster than light, figure that out:

In quantum entanglement, part of the transfer happens instantaneously.[8] Repeated experiments have verified that this works even when the measurements are performed more quickly than light could travel between the sites of measurement: there is no slower-than-light influence that can pass between the entangled particles.[9] Recent experiments have shown that this transfer occurs at least 10,000 times faster than the speed of light,[10] which does not remove the possibility of it being an instantaneous phenomenon, but only sets a lower limit.[11]

Source

But yeah, my bad, I posted facts with verifiable data and experiments, I must have an agenda.

What the "new quark they just recently "found does and why haven't we realised this before in our modelling of the subatomic world.........obviously we are not even sufficiently grounded in our ``sciences to be making definitive anything....

you mean the new Boson? The higgs? That was part of the original set of particles theorized to exist? Yeah, just because you don't know anything about it, doesn't mean it wasn't expected to be there, that's kinda why they spent years and billions of dollars looking specifically for the higgs.

As suggested in the theory, the higgs boson is the last "elementary particle" theorized. It creates a field that permeates through all of space/time. Objects moving through this field meet resistance from the field, like a boat moving through water. This resistance is what we perceive to be mass.

that's the theory anyway. The one created in 1964. They've been searching for it for 40 years.

Science is the admission of humanity we don't know everything

no, that would be reality. Science is the attempt to explain what we experience.

So history is false and science is not to be trusted.

I look forward to the OP's next thread, in which he will prove that multiplication table is all wrong and 2 + 2 = 138.

reply to post by cardicorona


Excellent, I wish so-called scientists could understand the difference between math and reality. Just like their propensity to divide by zero, which is the ultimate folly but have to do it to make Relativity work, black holes, and dark energy and matter. It's complete and utter nonsense.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Again, you or Tesla, hmmm, that's a toughie. Also, thanks for proving that Light isn't a constant.

reply to post by Junkheap


you must not have performed the experiment.