The Secrets of Heaven

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posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:08 AM
I want to look here at a system for the subdivision of the Heavens that pre-date our current practise of sub-dividing the Heavens into 12 sectors, in terms of the constellations.

The system to be considered is that of 10 sector division, were accordingly there would only be 10 months in the year. This system can be seen to pre-date and overlap with the develoment of the 12 sector division.

The 10 sector division will be looked at as relating to the Queen of Heaven (Venus), and the system that displaces this, as relating to the King of Heaven Marduk (Jupiter)

Below a reconstruction of the commonly understood system of 12 stars dividing the Heavens into 12 sectors across three bands from Mesopotamia

However an earleir system of 10 stars sub-dividing the Heavens can be sourced;

The Prayer to the Gods of the Night is the earliest surviving evidence of a 10-star tradition The use of 30 stars of Enlil, Anu, and Ea would appear to show a 2nd-millennium BCE tradition of listing stars in groups of 10 (i.e., 3 x 10; 10 stars each in the paths of Enlil, Anu, and Ea). That is a division into 30 individual sectors comprising 3 concentric bands (rings) each divided by 10 radial lines. These would be important - not monthly - stars.) Both BM 55502 and HS 1897 preserve catalogues listing 30 stars - 10 stars each for the three paths of the sky. This scheme was later replaced by a scheme of 12 stars for each of the three paths of the sky (3 x 12 = 36). (One star for each country/path and each month. The paths of Ea, Anu, and Enlil perhaps derive from the stars of Elam, Akkad, and Amurru.) However, the 30-star tradition scheme existed alongside the later 36-star scheme for circa the millennium between HS 1897 (late 2nd-millennium (early middle period)) and BM 55502 (late middle period).

The 10-star version of the Prayer to the Gods of the Night (preserved on tablet AO 6769) matches the Sumerian version of the bilingual menology in Astrolabe B, Section 1. In 10 of the 12 months the first item noted in the Sumerian-language version of the menology is the month-star for that month. The Prayer to the Gods of the Night listing 10 stars/constellations anticipates the 10-star astrolabe tradition. This 10-star list refers to Ištar, Sîn, Šamaš, and Adad bringing judgement.

Mesopotamian Star Calendars

Prayer to the Gods of the night

The next piece of evidence to consider is reconstruction of the ancient Egyptian system of 'terms' in astrology, this is quite complex and can be read here;

Reconstruction of Major Egyptian Years

Input Data:

five sums of rising times of the zodiac sectors assigned to each of the five planets

the division of the zodiac onto 12 or 10 sectors; the correspondence of planets and sectors for duodecimal division is known, and the correspondence for the 10 sectors division is not known.

It is required to find optimal:

latitude of a place for calculation of rising time of the signs distance between the beginning of the zodiac and the vernal equinox point

for 10-sectors division: a relationship between sectors and planets

For 12 sectors the acceptable solution does not exist.

For 10 sectors there is an optimal solution:
25°10' of northern latitude
distance of vernal equinox point from the beginning of the sidereal zodiac -- 29°02'

Saturn rules 1st and 10th sectors and obtains 57.51 years
Mars--2nd and 9th--65.62 years
Mercury--3rd and 8th--75.04 years
Jupiter--4th and 7th--80.48 years
Venus--5th and 6th--81.35 years

Thus, we obtain the dating and precise geographical place of fixation of the Egyptian system of terms, passed to us through the Greeks: Thebes, Egypt, 17th-15th centuries BC.

I think his re-construction is good and he can't believe what he is seeing, that there was a system of ten sector division of the Heavens, and that this was governed entirely by the five planets in positive and negative aspects.

Main conclusion that follows from the received reconstruction is the necessity of complete recalculation of system of major years and system of terms individually for each latitude, as the primary system was constructed for Thebes and is applicable with relatively small errors (less than 2 years) in a very narrow range of latitudes--approximately from 22° to 29° of northern latitude only.

This fact completely explains why the Egyptian system of lifetime determination doesn't work at all in the latitudes outside the mentioned interval, including Alexandria--the center of the Greek astrological school.

Other important conclusion is that the ancient Egyptian astrologers used 10 signs zodiac closely connected with system of decanes.

The third important conclusion is that the rulers of the signs of the zodiac were only the planets--wandering stars

As shall be seen, this would not seem so surprising in China or India...

As can be seen 10 sector division is related to the pentagon, and it can thus be surmised that as it is the planet Venus that was understood as describing such in the Heavens, then Venus was the principle ruler of such schematics; a Queen of Heaven.

Venus has an eight-year rhythm, which formed the subject of the world’s oldest astrological text, a Venus-tablet from Nineveh. It was part of a series called Enuma Anu Enlil, the ‘Book of the Gods of Heaven and Earth’, and was dated to the 17th century BC. It effectively recorded the five synodic periods of Venus, giving a series of ten omens over the eight-year cycle through the pattern of Venus’s appearance and disappearance from view.

Venus traces a pentagon shape in the sky over ten meetings with the Sun; it does this by moving, between each ‘inferior’ conjunction, exactly 1.6 times around the zodiac, and the time it takes to do this, 584 days, is its synodic period

Venus the Rose and the Heart

As was seen the five planets were seen as having positive and negative aspects, positive and retrograde, the potential for good and evil spiritual aspects, from this developed the tradition of Lucifer being seen as the negative aspect of Mercury, Satan for Saturn and Lilith for Venus etc

And the grouping of the five negative aspects into one caboodle;

It can also be seen of course that in this system Jupiter was simply one of the five planetary aspects

Great Queen of the Horizon and the Zenith,
The Anunna have prostrated themselves before you.

You are known by Your heaven-like height,
You are known by Your earth-like breadth

It has to be said that the adoption of a system based upon Jupiter is a much simpler affair;

Jupiter's 12-year orbital period corresponds to the dozen astrological signs of the zodiac, and may have been the historical origin of the signs. That is, each time Jupiter reaches opposition it has advanced eastward by about 30°, the width of a zodiac sign

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:08 AM
So Jupiter is the natural ruler of our current system, first formulated as relating to Marduk;

Cuneiforms of the Babylonian epic Enuma Elish or Tablets of Creation refer to Jupiter in the Fifth Tablet as the marker of the signs of the Zodiac . . . "He (Marduk - the Creator) founded the station of Nibir (Jupiter) to determine their bounds. . ." To the Babylonians, Nibir was the special name for Jupiter when the planet appeared directly opposite to the Sun and thus shone high and brightly in the midnight sky over the fertile valley of the Euphrates. Since Jupiter travels around its orbit once in almost 12 years, the planet each year moves eastward to occupy the next constellation of the Zodiac. Also, as a result of the relative motions of Earth and Jupiter around the Sun, the faster moving Earth overtakes Jupiter and thereby causes the planet each year to trace out a third of the Zodiacal constellation, i.e., 10 degrees of arc, in a westward, or retrograde, direction relative to the stars


In the Near East and Europe the system based upon Jupiter goes on to completely displace the former Venusian model, this relegated to the status of occultic concerns, but in the Far East and India this didn't happen, they harmonized the two systems;

Formed with twelve spokes, by length of time, unweakened, rolls round the heaven this wheel of during Order.

Herein established, joined in pairs together, seven hundred Sons and twenty stand, O Agni.

The Father with five feet and twelve forms, they say, dwells in the higher half of heaven full of waters.

Revolving on this five-spoked wheel all beings stand. Though it carries a heavy load, its axle does not over heat.

From of old it does not break its ancient laws.

The undecaying wheel (circle) together with its felly (circumference), ten yoked to the upward extension carry it.

The eye of the Sun moves encompassing the region. In it are placed all beings.


It can also be noted in a system involving a ten month 'year' then a natural cycle for such would have been 60 months, correspondent to five of our years, and thus concern with a numeric system based upon 60 would have been a natural derivative of involvement with a 10 month system.

Unlike many other calendars, the Chinese calendar is not infinite but repeats every 60 years. This repetition is a combination of the 10 “heavenly stems”, tian gan, [which correspond to one of five elements repeating in Yang/Yin pairs: Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal and Water] and the 12 “earthly branches”, dì zhi which correspond to the Buddhist animals. The 12 earthly branches [Rat through to Pig] repeat five times through the 60 year cycle, and the heavenly stems six times in the form of five pairs of Yang/Yin element doublets, also known as "Elder Brother" and "Younger Brother". An element only matches with an earthly branch once in the sixty year cycle

The early emperors of China were not only masters of earth lore. They also observed the skies, charted the course of the stars, and encoded this knowledge in the calendar system. Legend says that Huang-ti ordered his celestial ministers to study the stars. A primitive calendar system named chia-tzu was invented. Several hundred years later, during the Hsia dynasty, another, more sophisticated calculation of the sun, moon, and constellations was made and the calendar was revised. In the Shang period (between the eighteenth and twelfth centuries BCE), a sixty-day cycle was used. The movement of the constellations was now organized into the Ten Celestial Stems and the Twelve Terrestrial Branches. Each day was designated by a combination of one stem and one branch taken in serial order. The sixty-day cycle was then applied to the year, making six cycles per year of three hundred and sixty days.

In the Chou dynasty (twelfth–third centuries BCE) the Celestial Stems were matched to the five elements (metal, wood, water, fire, and earth), and the Twelve Terrestrial Branches were applied to the twelve solar months. By about 600 BCE (the time of Confucius and Lao-tzu), twelve animal symbols were attached to the Twelve Terrestrial Branches.

Mathamatics of the Chinese Calendar

The tradition of the ten month year did continue into the classical period and is evidenced from Greece and also Rome, were it can be noted the months formerly numbered only ten and ended in December, the tenth month.

he original Roman calendar was said to be invented by Romulus, the first king of Rome, at around 753 BCE (Before Common Era). The calendar started the year in March (Martius) and consisted of 10 months, with 6 months of 30 days and 4 months of 31 days. The winter season was not assigned to any month, so the calendar year only lasted 304 days with 61 days unaccounted for in the winter.

Roman Calendar
edit on 23-7-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 10:50 AM
The "Egyptian" astrology is actually misleading... it should read "Egypt at the time of the Ptolemys (300 BC)." In the older Book of the Dead (Amduat), the night is actually divided into 12 hours:

In general what he presents is from that time period and not from an older time period in Egypt.

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:24 PM
I presume you don't believe that the twelve lunar months within a solar year had anything to do with twelve zodiacs?

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:34 PM
reply to post by Byrd

It is seemingly difficult to contextualize this with the normative Egyptian divisions of the sky and calendar, but looking at what Timashev says regarding the Egyptian system of 'Terms';

he lord of the terms, the planet or sensitive point falls into, is considered as the limiting factor of manifestation of this planet or sensitive point. In this way, if the planet is in its own terms, it's like a man among his relatives--on the one hand he is surrounded by his people, but on the other hand certain restrictions and obligations are applied to him. Obviously, the position of the planet in the terms of another planet is like a man in someone else's family, that he is something obliged to.

and what Joanne Conman is concerned with here;

In the Egyptian language, the word "At " means a "moment/ instant of maximum force/ power." The word refers to a point in time when a person or deity reaches his greatest potency.

Egyptians understood gods (and sometimes people) to have a moment"when they appeared or manifested in a state or condition of being in which they are able to produce or to develop an activity."

The exaltation or hypsoma of a planet is its place of maximum potency, exactly like the moment of striking power....It has been proposed that the exaltations or hypsomata developed from what late Babylonian astrological texts refer to as "places of secret" of the planets.

In later astrological texts, the Babylonian places of secret for Mercury, Jupiter, and Mars match the Hellenistic exaltations exactly, except that the Babylonian position is given as the general region of a constellation, rather than as a degree of an astrological sign.

Unlike the Greek idea that particular places strengthened a planet's power to influence, the Babylonian notion was that if a planet reached its special place, it was an auspicious omen.

The Egyptian origins of Planetary Hypsomata

then one sees the tradition is valid at some point in Egyptian Astrology, whether the figures that puzzled Ptolemy do indeed date back to Karnak circa 1700-1500 BC requires second expert opinion, but i don't find the possibility improbable, and Joanne is certainly dating the development of the tradition back to earlier periods than the Hellenistic.

reply to post by Hanslune

Well it seems natural to us, but the Babylonians said it was down to Marduk (Jupiter), and some have obviously prefered a system of 10 months that self adjusted after 60 months/five i guess sometimes it's not anything for the easiest.
edit on 23-7-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:35 PM
very readable and nice presented thread as usual Kantz , s&f know, was pondering;
what, if the difference between 10-zodiac and 12
was because of "increase in understánding of the paths through heaven"?
so, a consciousness thing ?

- first, they saw the five visible planets, and created their 360 concept around them ;
but as they studied the heavens more, the 12 zodiac came into use

some, as you said, kept the 360-system
but after that, both systems appeared to have developed synchron as well in East as West



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:52 PM
Very good read. S&F

The earliest definition of heaven I could find put the word at meaning sort of like "a time of all in abundance" Back in those days it was heaven never to want of food I guess. According to this definition, most of us live in heaven but since we raised the goalpost, many still cannot get to heaven. If we would all be satisfied with simple living, our life would have less stress and we would experience more happiness. There is nothing wrong with social gathering and even social media, socializing is part of abundance. It is the vacations that drain every extra buck you have that makes life hell. People do not realize that a cheap walk in the park or a simple cheap bbq with friends and family is fun. No fancy super grills needed either. No overpriced anything. Everyone just bring some dogs and burgers and some homemade salads and enjoy heaven while we still can.

I'm not waiting to go to heaven, I'm starting to live within my means and making heaven here.

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 01:13 PM
reply to post by Lone12

There would have to be over riding religious concerns to have divided the Heavens into ten sectors, as Hanslune pointed out the most obvious is into twelve.

If as i suggest that was because of the division of the Heavens according to Venus, as Queen of Heaven, and establishing the secret places of the planets within this framework, then it would have required authority such as that represented by Marduk to challenge this system and change to the simpler.

Though this could not incorporate the secret places of the planets according to the division of the ecliptic into 10, and thus required constellations.

reply to post by rickymouse

Yes we should end the reign of Jupiter and revert to the ten month calendar..

edit on 23-7-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 01:44 PM
reply to post by Kantzveldt

Why not bring Jupiter and Venus together in sacred marriage so they can give birth to a new calendar?

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 06:23 PM
You should just go to decimalized time

There were twelve months, each divided into three ten-day weeks called décades. The tenth day, décadi, replaced Sunday as the day of rest and festivity. The five or six extra days needed to approximate the solar or tropical year were placed after the months at the end of each year.

A period of four years ending on a leap day was to be called a "Franciade". The name "Olympique" was originally proposed[4] but changed to Franciade to commemorate the fact that it had taken the revolution four years to establish a republican government in France.[5]

The leap year was called Sextile, an allusion to the "bissextile" leap years of the Julian and Gregorian calendars, because it contained a sixth complementary day.

The French Republican calendar
edit on 23/7/13 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 08:38 PM
Not a fan of modification.

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 08:39 PM
Just an interesting side note some argue that the Zodiac, and its use comes from the Jewish Mazzaroth, and the conquering of the Jewish people by the Babylonian empire.

As it often happens in history ideas are built upon one civilization after another, to try to ascribe meaning to such a system really just comes down to whose viewing it at the time.
edit on 23-7-2013 by benrl because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 10:45 PM
I'm glad a mortal human understands the secrets of heaven. It's makes him superior to the rest of us, almost like Superman.

posted on Jul, 24 2013 @ 05:03 AM
reply to post by Hanslune

Yes that's the only drawback i wouldn't want the Metric system to defeat the Imperial entirely, though in ancient China that was the Imperial.

The Chinese ten-day week went as far back as the Xia Dynasty (2070–1600 BC). The law in the Han Dynasty (206 BC – AD 220) required officials of the empire to rest every five days, called mu (沐), while it was changed into 10 days in the Tang Dynasty (AD 618 – 907), called huan or xún (旬). Months were almost three weeks long (alternating 29 and 30 days to keep in line with the lunation). The weeks were labelled shàng xún (上旬), zhōng xún (中旬), and xià xún (下旬) which mean roughly "upper", "middle" and "lower" week.

reply to post by BlueMule

The two systems were harmonized by the Chinese and Indians, were 6x10=60 and 5x12 (Halving one factor and multiplying by the other), so thus the concern with numeric systems centred on 60.

reply to post by MadMax7

Well yes, the concern with the hyper is were we're at...

In the Egyptian language, the word "At " means a "moment/ instant of maximum force/ power." The word refers to a point in time when a person or deity reaches his greatest potency.

Egyptians understood gods (and sometimes people) to have a moment"when they appeared or manifested in a state or condition of being in which they are able to produce or to develop an activity."

The exaltation or hypsoma of a planet is its place of maximum potency, exactly like the moment of striking power....It has been proposed that the exaltations or hypsomata developed from what late Babylonian astrological texts refer to as "places of secret" of the planets.

Hence the traditional secrecy regarding the astrological Houses of the Planets within ten sector division.
edit on 24-7-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 24 2013 @ 05:19 AM
reply to post by Kantzveldt

There s another option though.

- that the original 360 model originated from a Former ecliptic horizon, in an era befóre the zodiac-12 became visible.

a former ecliptic horizon, where the Hinge wasnt Orion - like now - but Canis Major.

hence "Horus of the Two Horizons" could be possible - since the visible 5 planets were circeling that time, as well - that the construction of 360 was based upon a not-anymore-present yet still valuable consciousness.

[ see thread luna and real moon]

so, in other words: the common Subconsciousness remained by several kinds of human tribes about an old "order of things " [ like the 360 model was in Titicaca] while the néw , susceptible tribes, started to interpretate the Zodiac in the new situation - the zodiac, which Marduk said "he installed" : but he didnt in fact "install" nothing , but just had the knowledge and Rule about the NEW position which Earth had taken
[ that is: having become to face the 12 zodiac, after Earths tilt ] -

poorly phrased but hope its understandable...grin

posted on Jul, 25 2013 @ 06:56 PM
reply to post by Kantzveldt

Yes we should end the reign of Jupiter and revert to the ten month calendar..

Let's be reasonable. Not everyone understands Jupiter the same way. Here is an interview I conducted with a Heathen I know:

Interview with a Heathen

Pthena: When I say Jupiter what do you think of?

Heathen: The Sky Father, the visible manifestation of heaven, the One in whom we live and breathe.

P: And what about the planet Jupiter?

H: What about the planet Jupiter?

P: What importance or significance do you place in the planet Jupiter?

H: It's a planet. People could have named it anything they wanted to.

P: But do you think he rules the sky?

H: It's a planet. Planets are planets. How could a planet that isn't Earth rule the Sky Father of Earth?

P: Astrologers say that his path through the heavens cuts the sky, and ...

H: Look up at the sky, do you see anything cutting it up?

P: Well no, but the religions teach that ...

H: Fancy religions you mean.

I think there's something about Venus that I have missed. I will think about what that may be. In the meantime, consider this:

Most people are aware that 2+3=5
Few people stop to consider that "The sum of the first and second prime numbers is equal to the third prime number". That seems to make 5 unique.

Is it possible that Venus is concerned with death and new life in a sort of anti-psychopomp way? Instead of taking a soul somewhere, she chops it up on the spot to be distributed in new life? She would have to work closely with the Earth then. Why is it said by the Greeks that she is born of air and water?

posted on Jul, 26 2013 @ 11:32 AM
reply to post by pthena

Well that was Neo-Paganism for you, i was of course joking about returning to a ten month calendar, but i did create this thread with you in mind, given what you've mentioned about Jupiter to me, and also you're asking me to show you Inanna, as it were, so here goes.

What i've outlined here is that as seen in Far Eastern cosmology and the Indian Sub-continent there is the tradition of the ten Celestial Stems or ten spoked wheel being the sub-structure upon which, or within which, the twelve spoked celestial order is reliant.

Such understanding was also at the basis of the Sumerian system, and can be deduced to also have been understood in ancient Egypt, in the context of secret astrological knowledge from which could be derived the Hypsoma of the planets.

The twelve sector division as the term Terrestrial Stems suggests was used in translating the Heavenly to the mundane, calendars, seasons, hours, tribes, Pantheons of worship, and Rex Mundi naturally assumed charge.

In terms of the planetary aspects lets consider Jupiter in his positive light, a benevolent ruler, responsible for good order within society, maintainer of sound system and function, at the Celestial and Terrestrial levels, we have the planet itself to thank for hoovering up much unruly space debris on our behalf.

But considering the negative aspects of Jupiter, we see much concern with this around these parts, in terms of the construction of an all embracing and oppressive system, the New World Order, that individuals are caught up within a system that seeks to monitor and regulate their every action, through Laws and Enforcement Agencies that dictate what they can say, how they can behave, increasingly what they are even allowed to short Jupiter can become overbearing and given to absolute authoritarian traits.

The Celestial aspect that can act as counter balance against this is Venus, she is capable of pulling the magic flying carpet from under Jupiter's feet, and for this reason she has been violated and suppressed, see here;

Whores of Babylon

As to qualities of Venus, she overcomes death by facilitating rebirth, though sexuality, there is the concern with continual flow and pattern, whether of air or water, and that flow is the continuation of life.

This is not direct linear progression, her ways are mysterious and tend toward the curvaceous, and will always seemingly defy Logic, in her absence would be the day the Earth stands still.

Once order has been established it is Jupiter's inclination to keep things that way, which can lead to repression of ideas and actions, to such an extent that natural flow is no longer seemingly possible.

edit on 26-7-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 26 2013 @ 01:41 PM
reply to post by Kantzveldt

If Jupiter is the order and control, then Venus the antithesis would be Chaos as a counter balance?

posted on Jul, 26 2013 @ 03:55 PM
reply to post by abeverage

It's a good question, normally the negative aspect of Saturn is seen as undermining Order, primarily through time, disease, decay, degeneration, disintergration, general disorders introduced into the host leading to internal collapse.

Venus is an underlying aspect of Order that can and should harmonize with Jupiter, otherwise the Garden of Earthly Delights becomes a little overgrown and wild and behavior within it most inappropriate, and when her roots start showing i guess that is what they call chaos.

Nothing but trouble as they say.

posted on Jul, 26 2013 @ 05:24 PM
reply to post by Kantzveldt

Well that was Neo-Paganism for you,

I started reading Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner back in the mid-90s. It seemed that everything was based on the number 4. Then I read a book about how Shamanism helped a girl who seemed to be clinically psychotic to regain her self and balance through becoming a Shaman herself. I can't remember the name of the book because I gave it away to someone I thought might be helped by it. It also seemed to be number 4 based.

I don't know how Neo-Pagans put significance to the pentagram. (spirit as a 5th element above the traditional 4). Venus as the definer seems more meaningful (8 year cycle).

For some reason, I'm 5 based, and I don't particularly know why. The Wicca use of pentagram seems more sentiment based than anything else. My apologies to the Wicca, You can just say I'm ignorant.

More later. Time to eat lunch.

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