WHAT?? MSNBC host Ed Schultz blames Republican policies for bankrupting Detroit.

reply to post by neo96


I agree that white-flight occurred.

But what precipitated that?

Was it taxes?

Lack of jobs?

And if it was lack of jobs, what caused the lack of jobs?

reply to post by beezzer


Honestly the 'motor city' derived most of its income from American auto manufactures, with the rise of other auto makers in the rest of the world that created competition that took wealth elsewhere.

Compound that with American manufactures in Detroit not being able to adapt to the climate of the time designing, and producing things that were not so appealing.

Compounded by the rise of the unions wanting more and more as more cash and benefits were given to the workers less cash was being taken in, more and more other automakers were increasing their market share.

Of course taxation, and regulation also played a part in that role, law makers corruption also played a role, and the last part of all that was 'racial politics'.

Recipe for disaster as we are currently seeing in the rest of the country.

As the rest of the world develops more wealth and jobs are going to be lost as the same process over time as we have seen in Detriot, and other places like California, seen on a national scale across the country.

People can wish for all the stuff they want, when the money is coming in but as those policies, and the id of ' I want' increase more than the revenue taken in?

IT is DETROIT CITY!.

That is my opinion others will vary.

Originally posted by beezzer
To add, blame republicans, blame democrats. . . . unless we get our collective butts in gear, AMERICA will look just like Detroit!!!!!!

We don't have collective butts. We have finger pointing, agendas, belligerence, hateful rhetoric, and lies.

America will continue to slide down the tubes because no one really cares about AMERICA any more; we are divided along so many ideological lines that it would be humorous if it wasn't so damn sad.

I submit as evidence....this thread.

reply to post by neo96


Thank you, sir.

Well said.

Originally posted by olaru12

Originally posted by beezzer
To add, blame republicans, blame democrats. . . . unless we get our collective butts in gear, AMERICA will look just like Detroit!!!!!!

We don't have collective butts. We have finger pointing, agendas, belligerence, hateful rhetoric, and lies.

America will continue to slide down the tubes because no one really cares about AMERICA any more; we are divided along so many ideological lines that it would be humorous if it wasn't so damn sad.

I submit as evidence....this thread.

I did ask a sincere question.

We can finger point and SAY republican this, democrat that, but what policies were put in place AND BY WHOM, will tell the tale of the death of Detroit.

reply to post by beezzer


From the beginning I have leaned toward the fault of the left, because those automakers have business in other countries, and the only reason they leave this country is because it is cheaper to go elsewhere.

Like always the left shoots themselves in the foot, and cry how it's the rights fault.

I'm gonna get flamed for that.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by olaru12

Originally posted by beezzer
To add, blame republicans, blame democrats. . . . unless we get our collective butts in gear, AMERICA will look just like Detroit!!!!!!

We don't have collective butts. We have finger pointing, agendas, belligerence, hateful rhetoric, and lies.

America will continue to slide down the tubes because no one really cares about AMERICA any more; we are divided along so many ideological lines that it would be humorous if it wasn't so damn sad.

I submit as evidence....this thread.

I did ask a sincere question.

We can finger point and SAY republican this, democrat that, but what policies were put in place AND BY WHOM, will tell the tale of the death of Detroit.

So if we find out the answers to your questions....then what... will AMERICA change into a cooperative country to keep it from happening to other cities? I think your first assessment was the correct one; everywhere will look like Detroit. No money for infrastructure...only wars and corporate bailouts.

reply to post by olaru12


In order to avoid the mistakes of the past, we first must learn what they were.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by olaru12

 

In order to avoid the mistakes of the past, we first must learn what they were.

Since when have we ever learned from our mistakes?

Constant war and ingrained corruption rampant in all economic structures. Same as it ever was....

The American "problem" has progressed way beyond politics; if it ever was a political problem. Neither party can solve what is basically a cultural malaise.

Have a great time with your star and flag circle jerk. Don't listen to me I'm just a ........ "people like you"

Republicans didn't cause Detroit. Democrats didn't cause Detroit. POLITICS caused Detroit's implosion and Politics has both a left and a right side, at all times. It took all and both sides of them to pull off the conversion of one of America's powerhouses of manufacturing into Beirut in the North.

Whatever decisions either side made at whatever points over the many, many years it took to do this terrible thing to that city, EITHER side could have grown a pair and stood up to STOP it. Neither side did or cared enough to try beyond token effort to brag on come election day. Meanwhile, a city has crumbled and collapsed.

Bickering, Partisan fighting and general overall B.S. caused Detroit and it's in various stages of it across many many other cities as we sit here. We're just going to let it happen again and again, too.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Business moved because the salary and massive pension plans are not competitive as other place due to unions demand and democrat complicit for votes. This is clearly the unions fault!

How is this Republicans fault r u mad?

And I'm not even a Republican supporter, but the Democrats agenda is extremely dangerous.

I happened to catch a quick glimpse of radio talk show host Leslie Marshall saying she believes it would be a good thing to bail out Detroit.

ahuh so the line seems to go ... it's Republicans fault Detroit went belly up(even after the auto bailout) and now we need to bail out the whole city.

sheesh

Tax the crap out of companies and they will go to another state...

Create unions that pay a guy dumping trash 70 bucks an hour and a company will not be competitive....

Make every other job in the city a "Government job" and there will be no taxes to pay for those jobs, oh and pay 3 times the value of those jobs and you only make things 3 times worst.

Ya these are all Republican ideals... lol

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Point your finger and blame either Democrats or Republicans as much as you want - the rest of the world shakes it head in disbelief and say 'America let this happen" .

From the outside - though it may be wrong - it looks like decades of domestic finger pointing is to blame for a LOT of Americas problems. When at any given time roughly half the political establishment is in disagreement with the other half, and is so by default, it seems as no wonder that no long term solutions to lang standing problems can be reached.

If you insist on searching for the arsonist before you put out the fire every time a house is burning, then someday all of you will run out of shelter. Just saying.

reply to post by DupontDeux

Point your finger and blame either Democrats or Republicans as much as you want - the rest of the world shakes it head in disbelief and say 'America let this happen" .

I can't speak for the rest of the world. Should I just forget that Democrats have controlled the city since 1962?

Just completely ignore that fact of the equation? That would be absurdly irrational.

Originally posted by mikell
reply to post by Indigo5

 

The fact is the autoworkers retirement fund is not linked to Detroit. Get your facts right the UAW and Detroit pension fund are not related.

Correct...not the autoworkers fund...city employees.

The Police and Fire Retirement System and the General Retirement System and its 20,000 retirees filed a lawsuit in Ingham County, Mich., court last week that argues that Detroit's bankruptcy filing must be withdrawn because it violates the Michigan Constitution's protection of public employees' pensions.

www.usatoday.com...

Originally posted by TheWrightWing
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Detroit is the perfect example of the Democrat Utopia they are turning the country into. It's what "Running out of other peoples money" looks like.

The state-run White House mouthpiece MSNBC must turn itself inside out to deflect from this fact, but how?

Simply shout "Republicans did it!" Lather, rinse, repeat. Like they leftists do.

The advantage of being fact-free leftists is, the only ones who will callenge you are Racist, Bigoted, Extremist RWNJ's...

In other words, fascism at its purest will preserve The Current Truth as it always does.

right, and if you want the TRUTH, always listen to republicans. they only want to help out the middle class and poor.....geez...I thought everyone knew that.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Just how stupid does MSNBC consider it's fan base to be?

Answer - Pretty dang stupid.

Unions and left wing give aways destroyed Detroit.
And no ... we shouldn't bail it out. It doesn't deserve to be ....

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by olaru12

 

In order to avoid the mistakes of the past, we first must learn what they were.

Here is one interesting take with a nugget of truth, but certainly open to debate...a shrinking tax base resulting from shrinking population and a downward spiral...

“In the case of Detroit, the reason that the tax base has become so small is because a loss of population, right?” she asked. “So folks move out, they are not there to pay the taxes on the homes, and the kind of deterioration is what you see in the numbers you’ve suggested.”

“But this lack of tax base is also exactly the thing that many Republicans would impose on us, even when our cities have sufficient populations, even when our communities have sufficient populations,” she continued. “This is what it looks like when government is small enough to drown in your bathtub, and it is not a pretty picture.”

Read more: www.washingtontimes.com...
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now...the leap here is that Anti-Gov conservatives push for less taxes, less spending on public services etc.

But how much of the shrinking population of detroit can be linked to people fleeing a city with little in the way of public services or upkeep.

And how much of that reduction in public funds available (tax base/population) is a result of financial crisis, jobs outsourcing vs. conservative reduction in spending or taxes.

At the end of the day...we have a shrinking city, leaving behind abandoned homes...crime...and dramatically less funds to police the streets and keep up infrastructure.

Detroit's population lowest since 1910..this means tax dollars, infrastructure, services, fire, police, quality of life etc. etc.



So the question is Chicken or the Egg?


If "Big Government" restructures Detroit...infuses funds to improve City Services, tear down abandoned buildings, build parks...Will population return? Will Industry return? Will Jobs return?

Or "Drown Government in the bath tub"...we let the economic pressures follow thier course of collapse...and Industry will either one day return taking the risk and tax dollars will follow with jobs and industry...or industry will not return and detroit will continue to constrict and collapse, more crime etc. over the comming years.

If a hurricaine had destroyed Detroit vs. economic pressures, outsourcing and "free" trade etc. it would be a sightly easier debate.

Either way....whatever the answer...a lot of demolition should be done...many abandoned homes and rotting buildings are crime havens and fire risks.

If we are looking to let Detroit shrink under the free market, we need to prune the deadwood. Maybe build parks or at least leave empty land/lots for future development.

Sad..

reply to post by NOTurTypical


gotta keep the propaganda going for the next election cycle,

How stupid can the viewers be, pretty stupid, they believe what they want to believe, no amount of facts or evidence to the contrary will be enough to sway minds, brainwashed.