UFO researcher Grant Cameron says Col. Alexander confirmed MJ-12

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posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 09:53 AM
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Few UFO topics have been as widely debated and analyzed as the mysterious MJ-12 papers. Many believe the documents are not authentic, while some of those still maintain that the US has an MJ-12 type organization to deal with the UFO mystery.

Per this article from Cameron's website, Cameron indicates that Col. John Alexander has learned that such an organization does indeed exist.




Alexander wrote a book on his UFO investigations called “UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies, and Realities.” In the book Alexander pointed out that although UFOs are real, they are of no interest to the American government, and therefore there is no cover-up of the facts by American officials. Alexander is also well known in the UFO community for hosting a Top Secret – Special Access series of meetings in the mid-1980s to look at the UFO problem for a possible new government look at the problem. The group was called the Advance Theoretical Physics Group and interestingly had exactly the same “Top Secret- Restricted Classification” as the MJ-12 document.

In a June 15, 2013 interview with radio show host Nancy Du Tetre Alexander, Alexander suddenly announced that the MJ-12 group had existed.[ii] This sudden disclosure was strange. That is because the MJ-12 controversy is central to the whole government cover-up theory believed by most in the UFO community. Yet Alexander did not talk about the MJ-12 idea in his book which had as its basic premise that there is no government control group dealing with the UFO mystery.


So, what gives here? Alexander now indicates that he believes MJ-12 exists or existed, yet he said before that UFOs are of no interest to the government. Very confusing and conflicting statements.

Personally, whether it is called the "working group" or "MJ-12", I believe that such a group exists. Is this proof of its existence? Alexander is definitely connected, but I would be wary of disinformation from him. Thoughts?


edit on 22-7-2013 by Jchristopher5 because: Added link to MJ-12 documents
edit on 22-7-2013 by Jchristopher5 because: Fixed link
edit on 22-7-2013 by Jchristopher5 because: (no reason given)
edit on 22-7-2013 by Jchristopher5 because: (no reason given)
edit on 22-7-2013 by Jchristopher5 because: Clean up link (again)




posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by Jchristopher5
 





So, what gives here? Alexander now indicates that he believes MJ-12 exists or existed

Beware the Birdies ... or in this case the PENGUIN
Since The Gut brought the workings of the Aviary to light in This thread many things have begun to make sense to me in regard to statements made by certain ex military individuals , I believe this is another such case as Alexander has close links to the Aviary .

.

(Col)John.B. Alexander (PENGUIN), Ph.D. in Thanatology [Death Sciences], Col. (“Ret.”), U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), which is undoubtedly his military cover for the National Security Agency (NSA). He is a former Green Beret, and Army PSYOPS specialist.

British reporter Armen Victorian concludes that John B. Alexander is an active operative assigned to a covert military group “specializing in dissemination of disinformation,” collectively known as the “Aviary.” In a recent interview, David Morehouse, author of Psychic Warrior, (St. Martin’s Press, 1996) reports that “Alexander was a Special Forces officer in Vietnam who commanded a Montagnard battalion. Others say he was a member of the Phoenix Project [the notorious CIA assassination program]. When he came out, he worked with the intelligence community and he never left.
realizethelies.com...


Tweet , Tweet ....


edit on 22-7-2013 by gortex because: Edit to edit



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by Jchristopher5
 





So, what gives here? Alexander now indicates that he believes MJ-12 exists or existed

Beware the Birdies ... or in this case the PENGUIN
Since The Gut brought the workings of the Aviary to light in This thread many things have begun to make sense with regard to statements made by certain ex military individuals , I believe this is another such case as Alexander has links to the birdie house .


(Col)John.B. Alexander (PENGUIN), Ph.D. in Thanatology [Death Sciences], Col. (“Ret.”), U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), which is undoubtedly his military cover for the National Security Agency (NSA). He is a former Green Beret, and Army PSYOPS specialist.

British reporter Armen Victorian concludes that John B. Alexander is an active operative assigned to a covert military group “specializing in dissemination of disinformation,” collectively known as the “Aviary.” In a recent interview, David Morehouse, author of Psychic Warrior, (St. Martin’s Press, 1996) reports that “Alexander was a Special Forces officer in Vietnam who commanded a Montagnard battalion. Others say he was a member of the Phoenix Project [the notorious CIA assassination program]. When he came out, he worked with the intelligence community and he never left.
realizethelies.com...


Tweet , Tweet ....


Thanks, that is very interesting. I was a bit wary of anything from Alexander, as his previous statement that "UFOs are of no interest to the United States government " just doesn't make sense, in light of official documents and actions of the government over the past 66 years.

So, trying to back into what this means. Is Alexander's admission intended as disinformation, or is it part of the evolving disclosure process. In other words, give the "sheep" some green grass to chew on, and see where it takes things?

I am personally sick and tired of the UFO games that these individuals apparently play. A movement is needed, a real movement, to demand the truth.
edit on 22-7-2013 by Jchristopher5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Jchristopher5
 





Is Alexander's admission intended as disinformation, or is it part of the evolving disclosure process.

I think its intended to muddy the water , to cause doubt and ultimately to dis-inform .
I have a feeling that the MJ12 documents are real but only in as far as they came from official sources , I believe they were a creation by the army or just as likely the Aviary , whether there's any truth in them is anybody's guess but it is said that many a lie contains a grain of truth .

edit on 22-7-2013 by gortex because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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UFOs are real, they are of no interest to the American government

Of course Col.Alexander!
Advanced Propulsion Systems are of no use
for the US-Gov.
edit on 22/7/13 by D0MiNAT0R 1OOO because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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Jack Brewer asks some very good questions and presents some interesting information in the following article:

John Alexander, Contradictions and Unanswered Questionsddrs

You might also find his website interesting.

John B. Alexander, Ph.D.

Under ARTICLES on his website, if it's still there, is one that I believe was co-authored with his son about the lessons learned in the Mid-East and how our U.S. Police Forces are, should, and would continue to Militarize. Very NWO feel to it, and Alexander has prepared papers for the Council on Foreign Relations and such.

Should it still be there, and should you dare to click it, you might get the same pop-up I did that said something to the effect of "If you choose to read this article you give the DOD (Department of Defense) consent to full access to your computer harddrive!"

Something like that anyway. Froze my computer screen.

He really dislikes those he considers "conspiracy theorists." You can tell from his newest book and various writings available online. He's pretty rude about it actually.

Probably because some of those "conspiracy theorists" have penetrated his "cover" and have laid bare some of the rather unsavory things he's been up to. That's my opinion of course, we'll not just mine, a lot of folk who've researched him actually. I'll bring some more of that here if anyone is interested.



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


TG, great stuff. Please do being more on Alexander.

So what is our opinion, considering that Alexander is probably a CIA operative, about this MJ-12 comment?

Is Alexander intentionally disclosing something as part of the slow disclosure process? Or is it just more fiction to throw us off the scent, so to speak?



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Jchristopher5
...So what is our opinion, considering that Alexander is probably a CIA operative, about this MJ-12 comment?

Is Alexander intentionally disclosing something as part of the slow disclosure process? Or is it just more fiction to throw us off the scent, so to speak?

Well, that's a little more complicated...but not impossible to come to some strong conclusions on.

For now, let's consider that in his new book, forwarded by Jacques Vallee, that Alexander leans towards something like the Interdimensional Hypothesis as opposed to the ETH. So, for starters, if there were some truth in the MJ-12 stuff--which I now wholeheartedly doubt--and he was part of some official "slow" disclosure...where does any of THAT show up in the MJ-12 stuff? It doesn't.


I'll be back with some more. Thanks for this thread.



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by The GUT
For now, let's consider that in his new book, forwarded by Jacques Vallee, that Alexander leans towards something like the Interdimensional Hypothesis as opposed to the ETH. So, for starters, if there were some truth in the MJ-12 stuff--which I now wholeheartedly doubt--and he was part of some official "slow" disclosure...where does any of THAT show up in the MJ-12 stuff? It doesn't.



Very interesting point and an astute observation.

It does bring up a point. I don't know if anyone was even writing about the IDH in the forties and fifties, when most of the MJ-12 documents were supposedly created. Maybe that is the reason IDH is not mentioned? However, I agree that the documents we have seen appear to represent physical beings.

Also, note that Alexander doesn't authenticate the purported documents that we have all seen, so they could still be fakes. He seems to only be acknowledging that a committee like MJ-12 exists.



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 02:43 PM
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here is some stuff.


In his book, Out There,(Out There: The Government's Secret Quest for Extraterrestrials ) the New York Times journalist Howard Blum refers to “a UFO Working Group” within the Defense Intelligence Agency. Despite DIA’s repeated denials, the existence of this working group has been confirmed to me by more than one member of the group itself, including an independent source in the Office of Naval Intelligence. The majority of the group’s members are senior members of the AVIARY:

» Dr Christopher Green (BLUEJAY) from the CIA
» Harold Puthoff (OWL), ex-NSA
» Dr Jack Verona (RAVEN), DoD, one of the initiators of the DlA’s Sleeping Beauty project which aimed to achieve battlefield superiority using mind-altering electromagnetic weaponry
» John Alexander (PENGUIN)
» Ron Pandolphi (PELICAN)

The mysterious “Col. Harold E. Phillips” who appears in Blum’s Out There, is none other than John B. Alexander.


source: rosettasister.wordpress.com...
edit on 22-7-2013 by RUFFREADY because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by Jchristopher5
 


Yep all the MJ-12 stuff started right after WW2. With just a little imagination you could conceive of a new Nazi regime operating in the new world, North and South America. Rocketry would only be part, the 'public face' of the 'paper clipper's' mandate, their flying discs would be the secret, and if some kind of MJ-12 organisation is true you can easily understand why publicly they 'had no interest' in flying saucers. That Germany itself was a miracle rebuild after WW2 with allied help, and the Nazi purloined wealth pouring in from South America meant that a rebuilt Germany could not fail, and that the secret project was kept ongoing.
Some say that the Fuhrer did not perish in Berlin, but lived on in South America and he had henchmen organising the money flow back to Germany... So did he perish?





posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by RUFFREADY
here is some stuff.


In his book, Out There,(Out There: The Government's Secret Quest for Extraterrestrials ) the New York Times journalist Howard Blum refers to “a UFO Working Group” within the Defense Intelligence Agency. Despite DIA’s repeated denials, the existence of this working group has been confirmed to me by more than one member of the group itself, including an independent source in the Office of Naval Intelligence. The majority of the group’s members are senior members of the AVIARY:

» Dr Christopher Green (BLUEJAY) from the CIA
» Harold Puthoff (OWL), ex-NSA
» Dr Jack Verona (RAVEN), DoD, one of the initiators of the DlA’s Sleeping Beauty project which aimed to achieve battlefield superiority using mind-altering electromagnetic weaponry
» John Alexander (PENGUIN)
» Ron Pandolphi (PELICAN)

The mysterious “Col. Harold E. Phillips” who appears in Blum’s Out There, is none other than John B. Alexander.


source: rosettasister.wordpress.com...


Hiya, Ruff!

A quickie from a Popular Mechanics interview with Col. Alexander on the Advanced Theoretical Physics Group:


Q: Why was the Advanced Theoretical Physics Group organized, and what did it accomplish?


A: We thought there was probably a black program on UFOs somewhere in government, and those involved would probably be willing to work with a group that had appropriate clearances and could help disseminate information. What we found out, of course, was that there was no program and that information collection was pretty much ad hoc.


www.popularmechanics.com...

Some of the group sometimes try to make the ATPG sound sexier and more connected, but it certainly seems to have no real relation to any sort of MJ-12 group.

Was the group all about UFO disclosure as Alexander claims now? Probably not.

To understand Col. John B. Alexander requires an understanding of his "baby" the misleadingly titled Non-Lethal Weaponry. It's such a large part of who he is and what he does.

Now, jchristopher brings us this:




In a June 15, 2013 interview with radio show host Nancy Du Tetre Alexander, Alexander suddenly announced that the MJ-12 group had existed.[ii] This sudden disclosure was strange. That is because the MJ-12 controversy is central to the whole government cover-up theory believed by most in the UFO community. Yet Alexander did not talk about the MJ-12 idea in his book which had as its basic premise that there is no government control group dealing with the UFO mystery.

Will the real Col. John B. Alexander please stand up? I mean I paid about $20 for his book and now he's suddenly pushing MJ-12 and refuting his own current work?

Does something smell here? These cats are up to no good, and they probably don't know anymore than we do about the phenomenon...they do know the intricacies of deception in the intelligence world, however.

One thing is for sure: The man's words are not to be trusted. Can I have my $20 back, John?

More to follow.

edit on 22-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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BTW: Does anyone know if there's a link to the audio of the radio program that Grant Cameron mentioned? I wanna hear it for myself.

If confirmed, the Sloop John B just developed a serious leak that will probably be the turning point in illuminating some of Alexander's intentions. Seriously, if they wanna do questionable stuff and fool the masses for whatever reason...they should retire some of these guys. They are getting sloppy in their later years.



Col. Alexander, Gordon Novel, and Victoria Lacas-Alexander

John Alexander and Hal Puthoff with Mind-Bent Spoon

Col. John B. Alexander w/ Reading the Enemy's Mind



edit on 22-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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Let's look at how Col. John B. Alexander feels about a few things:


"Another category of concern is against whom non-lethal weapons might be employed," writes Alexander with his characteristically blithe understatement.

"Paranoia is running rampant in the United States. We have addressed the militia movements and surprising widespread support that conspiracy theories receive."

"Distrust of the government by not thousands but tens of millions of US citizens is confirmed in public opinion surveys," he continues. "The skepticism and controversy has been fueled by recent revelations that the US government has routinely lied to the people about such varied topics as human radiation experiments, withholding treatment in the Tuskegee prison syphilis experiments, the oppressive actions of the Internal Revenue Service, the amount and geographic area covered by fallout from nuclear testing, and even UFO sightings."

"Many of these conspiracy theory adherents believe that the government -- or some other supranational organization -- is attempting to take freedom away from the citizens. Some of them see non-lethal weapons as tools to facilitate those objectives. They believe that these weapons could be used to enslave them for some unstated nefarious purpose." Don't worry, says Alexander reassuringly, everything's under control. You just don't know how much.

"The fallacy of this logic should be readily apparent," he continues. "Sufficient force already exists to accomplish this task. Therefore no new non-lethal weapons would be necessary."

www.umsl.edu...


We'll speak a little more later on the author of the following article. Yes, his real name was Henry. Yes, he probably was guilty of bootlegging some flowers. Flowers mind you.

He was also a penetrating mind that Col. John B. sick'ed the international intelligence community dogs on. Like I said, more on that later, in the meantime:


The entire non-lethal weapon concept opens up a new Pandora's Box of unknown consequences. The main personality behind it is retired Colonel John B. Alexander. Born in New York in 1937, he spent part of his career as a Commander of Green Berets Special Forces in Vietnam, led Cambodian mercenaries behind enemy lines, and took part in a number of clandestine programmes, including Phoenix. He currently holds the post of Director of Non-lethal Programmes in the Los Alamos National Laboratories.

Alexander obtained a BaS from the University of Nebraska and an MA from Pepperdine University. In 1980 he was awarded a PhD from Walden University (20) for his thesis "To determine whether or not significant changes in spirituality occur in persons who attended a Kubler-Ross life/death transition workshop during the period June through February 1979." His dissertation committee was chaired by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross.

He has long been interested in what used to be regarded as "fringe" areas. In 1971, while a Captain in the infantry at Schofield Barracks, Honolulu, he was diving in the Bemini Islands looking for the lost continent of Atlantis. He was an official representative for the Silva mind control organisation and a lecturer on Precataclysmic Civilisations (21). Alexander is also a past President and a Board member of the International Association for Near Death Studies; and, with his former wife, Jan Northup, he helped Dr C.B. Scott Jones perform ESP experiments with dolphins.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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Robert Sheaffer has shared with me his own comments:



Before going ballistic on this, Grant Cameron should have read John Alexander's book UFOs Myths Conspiracies and Realities (NY: Thomas Dunne Books, 2011). It has an entire chapter on the MJ-12 "documents." Alexander examines the claims, and is generally skeptical of them. On p. 130, he suggests "COG - An Alternative Solution." He cites a 'confidential source' he trusts who tells him that "the topics the group was involved in studying had nothing to do with the Roswell crash in particular or UFOs in general." In other words, a group existed called "MJ-12," but it had nothing to do with UFOs. He speculates that it may have been involved with "continuity of government" following a nuclear war.


He has just posted a longer essay on the claim, here:

badufos.blogspot.com...
edit on 22-7-2013 by JimOberg because: add url



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by JimOberg

Okay, from Grant Cameron's article. This is the transcript of the interaction:


Alexander: I think that there actually was a group and they were created something known as COG – continuity of government – and it was to prevent nuclear decapitation of the United States. It was really super super sensitive.

Nancy Du Tetre: Well let me ask you this. Does MJ-12 as far as you know exist today?

Alexander: I don’t think so. I had someone whisper to me that it had existed. I didn’t think it had existed at all, but when I looked into it and asked if the names were correct, and they said yes and that should tell me what I need to know to figure it out. That’s how we came up with this particular occupation because most of them were into nuclear warfare. That was one common thread of all the people on the list, and much more so certainly than with UFOs.[iii]


Okay, John, you can keep your 20 bucks after all. Not that the book was worth it, imo.


edit on 22-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by JimOberg
 


I hope you checked for your cuff-links if you shook Shaeffers hand, he;s one of the the biggest BIlly BS artists in the UFO field. Another self appointed "expert" whose true knowledge and understanding of Ufology amounts to, slightly less than the reading matter on the spine of a box of cornflakes..



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Jchristopher5
So, what gives here? Alexander now indicates that he believes MJ-12 exists or existed, yet he said before that UFOs are of no interest to the government. Very confusing and conflicting statements.


It's quite simple really.

In the relevant podcast John Alexander makes it quite clear that he is saying (again, since he's said it before - e.g. in more detail in his book "UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies and Realities" at pages 130-132) that he's been told by an anonymous source that there was a group called MJ-12 but it had nothing to with UFOs.

Alexander speculates (after being pointed in this direction by Hal Puthoff) that the MJ-12 really was about Contintuity of Government.

I've included a brief extract below from the relevant discussion in Alexander's book for ease of reference in the hope that this resolves some of the confusion as to what Alexander is "suddenly" allegedly confirmed in the relevant podcast:



A reliable, vetted, and confidential source, who states he had access to MJ-12 material, indicated this was a real group. He also indicated that there would be no reports at the Department of Defense level as everything was controlled by the White House. However, he firmly acknowledges that the topics the group was involved in studying had nothing to do with the Roswell crash in particular or UFOs in general.

The following is speculation, but that clue caused me to think seriously about what such a body as MJ-12 might be involved in. It was Hal Puthoff who pointed me toward what could be the real answer—Continuity of Government ox COG. For decades this was one of the most highly guarded secrets in America. Formally initiated under President Eisenhower at the height of the Cold War, COG was designed to prevent nuclear decapitation of the U.S. Government. It would appear that some of those plans remain classified and have been adapted to current counterterrorism circumstances. The point is that in those early post-World War II days, nerves were frayed, tensions were high, and a plan for national survival was needed.

...

The alleged composition of MJ-12 was exactly right for the task of developing a plan to safeguard American leadership.

...
Certainly COG is a perfect fit. They were the right people, at the right time, involved in the right mission. That is, if they ever did exist.


It's this view which Alexander briefly expressed in the recent podcast, which can be downloaded from the link below:
hotleadscoldcases.podomatic.com...
edit on 22-7-2013 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 05:18 PM
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Koi to the rescue with relevant material yet again. I'm tellin' ya': Sir Isaac Koi is not a far-stretch in my opinion.


Having said that, I'll repeat what I've said time and again: Don't look to John Alexander for any bombshells about the UFO phenomenon, just some opinions.

No, nothing much from him worthy on UFOs...something like an NWO...that's a different matter. He got mad skillz.


It is somewhat interesting that Jim Oberg ran to his aid, but I'm not sure what to make o' that just yet...maybe nothing but setting the record straight...mebbe...

Now that we've cleared that up, though, is anyone interested in more material on Col. Alexander?

edit on 22-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by The GUT
Koi to the rescue with relevant material yet again. I'm tellin' ya': Sir Isaac Koi is not a far-stretch in my opinion.


Having said that, I'll repeat what I've said time and again: Don't look to John Alexander for any bombshells about the UFO phenomenon, just some opinions.

No, nothing much from him worthy on UFOs...something like an NWO...that's a different matter. He got mad skillz.


It is somewhat interesting that Jim Oberg ran to his aid, but I'm not sure what to make o' that just yet...maybe nothing but setting the record straight...mebbe...

Now that we've cleared that up, though, is anyone interested in more material on Col. Alexander?

edit on 22-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)


how about a thread?





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