Some Mormons Search the Web and Find Doubt

reply to post by sulaw


Hahahaa. Hovering! I love it. I was so high, I was constantly hovering, smothering..discovering. This is a new one for me, but it wouldnt suprise me. I think its a sad thing when you gotta come up with things that are not breaking the old fashioned rules, but still trying to stay within them while being immoral. Or something to that flavor. My Dad is a high priest, my little sister still attends. Got to ask them about this.

snakebit fact: I was baptized Catholic and LDS. My dad grew up Mormon and married a Catholic (my mom). My brother and I both hold the Aaronic & Melchizedek Priesthoods, and have stepped away from church when we became adults (18).

Joseph Smith was a Mormon... Dumb dumb dumb da dumb

Originally posted by snakebit
My point was "mormons" are not sitting in church plotting on how to de-value another denominations beliefs.

Despite some negative experiences I have had in dating Mormons one thing I have some praise for is they generally don't run around as a group or individuals disrespecting other people's Christianity.

When other churches do this is reinforces Mormons and new converts to believe that there are only two churches: Jesus's church and the devils. And I believe that is probably true. But when other churches disrespect Mormon's Christianity it deceives new converts into believing what the missionaries in the Mormon church are saying, despite all the failures and inconsistencies in Mormon whitewashed history which exists but is never taught by missionaries.

It's like the opponents of Mormonism are working with the missionaries by confirming Mormon teachings by disrespecting their claim to Christianity. Because ultimately by disrespecting Mormons Christianity they achieve the opposite effect of pulling people out of Mormonism into normal theology they drive them to Mormonism. Which is not a public service or benefit to people researching Mormonism and considering adopting it into their lives.

If other churches conducted themselves as Mormons do in respecting another persons claim to Christianity they would help a lot more people avoid Mormonism and avoid conversion and baptism into the Mormon church. Mormons aren't antagonistic. And non-Mormons will do this fairly regularly with potential Mormon converts and with their antagonism to honest questions will drive a new convert in the opposite direction they should be going.

They work together. Mormons saying two churches. Others being antagonistic. And I believe that both are working together in ignorance of how dark spirits work together on both sides to convert people to Mormonism. I really believe they are both part of spiritual Babylon otherwise both sides wouldn't in ignorance work to accomplish the same goal of converting new people to a false religion, despite Mormon congeniality.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Gee you think! Lol effing mormons are so ignorant to believe without question a historically false story. So are Christians for that matter.

Originally posted by th3dudeabides
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Gee you think! Lol effing mormons are so ignorant to believe without question a historically false story. So are Christians for that matter.

Well there is a rational explanation for that.

1. People raised in it from birth. No reason to question your parents or community who love you, treat you well, buy you Christmas presents. They don't drink. Beat their wives. It's a good lifestyle if you like sexual repression.

2. Potential converts. Who are never exposed to the questionable aspects of Mormon church history by the missionaries anymore than people raised in it are. And when you have outside antagonism that supports the missionaries saying these other people are hostile it confirms it.

3. Once you are in accurate outside information is off limits. And you will get in, especially in a small town where Mormons are payed close attention to and counter-proselytizing efforts that include coming to your door uninvited with anti-Mormon literature and hostility. It's one of those things in addition to listening to Oral Roberts say God needed 7 million dollars or he was going to bring Roberts back home to heaven in a Divine extortion attempt that makes me think I would never raise a child in this country even though I believe in the Bible I think you would be better off raising a child in a Buddhist Asian country with no Christian representation. Because the Christians here compared to some respectful Asian Buddhists I have met are completely wacky compared to non-Christian Asians. Christianity in this country is dangerous and unhealthy. Speaking in tongues, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, dancing with snakes, inter-denominational disrespect.

But of course one of the major definitions that cults share in common is limiting information.

While late Hitchens covered Mormonism and Joseph Smith in his book 'God is not great' to great details, and that should be enough to sane person to conclude how dangerous religions are (all of them are drugs for masses), his friend, Richard Dawkins, sometimes still talks about it...

Richard and Krauss on Mormonism

If something like this happened in less then 200 years and people still believe in story of lost golden plates, no wonder people believe in impossible stories in older religions including the one that earth is only 6 thousands year old, even we have settlements that date back to 15,000 years not to mention any other findings...

Miracula

For whatever difference it makes, I am an agnostic. I don't have a dog in this fight.

That said, I don't see why a Nicene Christian would care how a Mormon missionary would spin the observation "LDS is not a Christian church."

Where English is spoken, nobody calls Muslims "Christians," without some explanation, even though Islam teaches that the historical Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah (the Christ) who was promised to the Jews, and Islam venerates Jesus. That attitude shares much with being "Christian," but it isn't what the phrase "is a Christian" means in everyday usage.

There is, without question, some antagonism between particular Nicene Christians and particular Muslims. Ditto particular Mormons. But how people use a word has nothing to do with any such antagonism.

It may be regrettable that most people speak with less precision than specialists, and use the noun "Christian" only for a particular kind of person who admires the Christ. But they do, and understanding that they do is part of what it means to say "I speak English." LDS is not a Christian church as real people of good will use the term. What the sentence means is the truth. How somebody else might twist the truth isn't a good reason to refrain from saying the truth.
-

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by AkhenatenII
The truth will set you free.

Exactly. And the internet is getting information to people who, in the past, were subjected to 'truth' via the propaganda of those indoctrinated by easily debunked organized religions. Now people can go look up historical fact and find out for themselves if what they are being subjected to is truthful or not.

The internet is organized religions worst nightmare!

It's important that no one take over the internet ... that the internet not be filtered ... that people have complete access to it.

Wooot...

Organized Religion.... Sounds ALMOST criminal.....

Maybe it should beeeeee

Organized Religion....

Sounds ALMOST criminal.....

Maybe it should beeeeee

Religion can be a beautiful thing or it can be a sheep in wolf's clothing.

So many religious groups are about control and money. One religion I'm thinking of in particular is, imo, nothing more than a publishing business with heavy real estate dealings that poses as a religion, thereby getting all the tax benefits of such.

All the while, their corporate headquarters prints monthly magazines and periodic low-quality study books and SELLS them to their congregations all over the world to use as study guides or to distribute to the public...easy money and guaranteed customers. They even use volunteer labor in their business and printing facilities!

They indoctrinate their flock by highly controlling EVERYTHING preached and discussed from the congregations' podiums. No deviation from the assigned topics is allowed! No room for unnecessary discussion that might lead to questions.

Their real estate wheeling and dealing gets real creative especially where the building of congregations is concerned.

And, yep...it's one of those "religions" that uses shunning to control and maintain members. They put their own little spin on just the right scripture to justify parents turning against their children and siblings cutting other siblings out of their life, not to mention life long friends now having to treat other friends that have chosen to leave as if they no longer exist. You talk about a mindf**k! If you dare to leave, that is what you might have to face, so many stay in and suffer in silence.

I would like to touch on something that I don't know if anyone else is picking up on. There is a sub-theme playing in this thread. This is what I'm getting:

ATS has a slew of individiuals from all walks of life. For me I noticed that there are many LDS who turned away like myself with very ironic similiar stories in regards to life, family and organised religion. I'm sure there are some that are still devot LDS and probably look at my post and similar as heretics of the said faith. Reversly, possibly not as being on ATS exposes you to "many" truths and we all know how the Church doesn't want you to ask questions.

Oddly enough, I thought I was alone on some of the matters that I dealt with in the church when I was active. It's nice to hear that I'm not the only one and others who "grew" up in said faith have the same feelings and view points on the church.

Just wanted to say thank you for that.

Originally posted by eight bits
"LDS is not a Christian church."

None of the Protestant, Mormon, or Catholic churches follow the Bible.

They all see a doctrine printed in black and white so easy to read and understand that a child can grasp the doctrine, and then throw it out the window and accuse other churches of not following doctrine.

Name a church and I will tell you which doctrines of the Bible they violate.

The only difference is that when Mormons fail to follow doctrine they don't tell other people they aren't Christian.

3rd Party observer here. I maintain no religious affiliation, nor will I. Because Christians in this country are rude.

I've studied most religions when I was in my mid 20's to try to find one I thought or perceived to be most accurate. Religion is man made, not God made. God does not subscribe to only one religion.

With that being said, obviously there are major flaws with the basis of the Moron religion. What normally makes a cultish type religion take off (as the Mormon religion did) is when they incorporate things all religions should do, such as taking care of their own financially if they are in need.

I worked with a woman whose husband left her for another woman. She had 2 kids and never worked a job in her life. The Mormon church she attended paid for her household expenses and her college education. She received a master's degree in counseling thanks to her church. This is how society/churches should be.

The Mormon church also helps people with disaster planning, as well as teaching their congregation how to can food, preserve food, etc. I think these are important in daily life.

Most (not all) religions have elements of God. I think it's a persons path on which religion he/she chooses, or how they are brought up in life.

I would never become a Mormon, but some of the qualities they possess I admire.

reply to post by sulaw


No doubt boss. Same here.

It seems to be a consensus around here that Mormons are nice. Maybe I just catch them at their worst, but pretty much every woman who ever stabbed me in the back was a Mormon.

Maybe I just have bad luck, but I sure can't agree they are nice.

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by eight bits
"LDS is not a Christian church."

None of the Protestant, Mormon, or Catholic churches follow the Bible.

IMHO They are all christians. Catholics. Protestants. Mormons. Christ-ian means someone who tries to follow Christ. They ALL try to follow Christ as best they know how. They ALL interpret the bible as best they know how. I understand that the main stream christian religions (catholic/protestant) reject mormons as not being Christian. But I reject their rejection. If someone is TRYING to follow Christ as best they know how .. then they are Christian.

That being said ... back to the topic .... this story is important because it shows that freedom of information on the internet can free people from the false statements that happen within their organized religions.

Examples ... using the internet and freedom of information ...

- Mormons find out that their religion is based on an easily debunked lie. They are all still nice people and mean well and are trying to follow Jesus .. but the truth is that their founding was a lie.

- Catholics find out that their religion pushes Onanism (no artificial birth control) but if a Catholic looks up the bible quotes that supposedly back Onanism, they will see that the Church didn't get it right in it's interpretation. It's a scam to make more Catholics.

- Fundamentalist protestants are told that Catholics believe the Pope and Mary are to be worshipped by Catholics. The internet provides everyone with access to the Catholic Catechism and shows that those are lies that are said against the Catholics. That Catholics believe that worship belongs to God alone and that Mary and the pope are not God.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by HairlessApe
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

If ONLY this worked on all religions.

Well start typing the dirt,or are you just assuming you know something you dont.
If ONLY this worked on all atheists.

What are you even trying to say?

reply to post by snakebit


You could not be any more wrong, mormans have numerous teachings that contradict Christianity as taught in the bible.
Here are two examples,
Mormons believe you are saved through works and temple practice. This is false and pagan practice according to the bible. The bible clearly state you can only come to god through Jesus and acceptance of his sacrifice on the cross for your sin. You were already save on the cross and nothing other than acceptance is required of you.
Mormons believe God was once a man and man can become god, also grossly antichristian and a pagan belief. The bible clearly states that god is, has always been and will always be god. The scripture reads “there has been none before me nor will there be any after” if I recall correctly.
These are two cornerstone teaching of Christianity in the bible and anyone who would go against them cannot in good faith call themselves Christian.

Originally posted by eight bits

That said, I don't see why a Nicene Christian would care how a Mormon missionary would spin the observation "LDS is not a Christian church."

I don't think a potential convert who is raised in a secular fashion would have any idea what that means.

I think the only thing they can understand and relate is politeness.

Educating people with politeness on where Mormonism deviates from the norm is understandable, and its the very thing that I saw three professional ministers didn't do when I was curious about Mormonism having served with a guy in the Coast Guard who was Mormon along with his wife.

These three guys when you presented them with rational logical questions became disrespectful and that behavior played right into the hands of the Mormons missionaries saying "Hey, these guys are hostile, they cannot educate people about their disagreements with Mormonism without becoming emotional, hostile, and disrespectful"

Therefore definitions of what Nicene means have no bearing on the fact that non-Mormon Christians who get emotional and hostile work for the Mormon church by confirming what they are saying even though Mormonism is a false religion.

And if you can expect that from clergy what can you expect from representatives of other religions what can you expect from the people in their congregations. Worse behavior I assure you. And even if you don't pursue them they will come to your door uninvited while you are attending college and renting a house because they saw the Mormon missionaries who you did invite and who acted politely.

Originally posted by eight bits

That said, I don't see why a Nicene Christian would care how a Mormon missionary would spin the observation "LDS is not a Christian church."

I don't think a potential convert who is raised in a secular fashion would have any idea what that means.

I think the only thing they can understand and relate is politeness.

Educating people with politeness on where Mormonism deviates from the norm is understandable, and its the very thing that I saw three professional ministers didn't do when I was curious about Mormonism having served with a guy in the Coast Guard who was Mormon along with his wife.

These three guys when you presented them with rational logical questions became disrespectful and that behavior played right into the hands of the Mormons missionaries saying "Hey, these guys are hostile, they cannot educate people about their disagreements with Mormonism without becoming emotional, hostile, and disrespectful"

Therefore definitions of what Nicene means have no bearing on the fact that non-Mormon Christians who get emotional and hostile work for the Mormon church by confirming what they are saying even though Mormonism is a false religion.

And if you can expect that from clergy what can you expect from representatives of other religions what can you expect from the people in their congregations. Worse behavior I assure you. And even if you don't pursue them they will come to your door uninvited while you are attending college and renting a house because they saw the Mormon missionaries who you did invite and who acted politely.

Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, statutory rape of 14 year olds, dancing with snakes, drinking strychynine, preaching for money when the Bible says the hireling careth not for the sheep, accusing the Mormon church of not being Christian but using hostility and disrespect to confirm that the Mormon missionaries say that other churches are hostile without refuting Mormon doctrine and inconsistencies with respect....

...it's why if I ever have a child I would advise against them having contact with adult Christians. Islamic people...no problem. Buddhist...no problem. Shinto...no problem. Just about another other religion because adult Christians in this country are dangerous. They are supposed to be the pinnacle of civilization and yet the are often less well behaved then children whose minds haven't even mature physically to develop self control as our minds do as we age.

Why? Because I think they are strangely enough while accusing other denominations of being evil and of the devil, that it is they who are what they claim others to be. Otherwise they wouldn't be dancing with snakes and using disrespect to prove Mormon missionaries correct despite the fact that God doesn't pull magic scriptures out of hats. But you can depend on non-Mormons Christians to attempt to prove the Book of Mormon correct even though neither they or I believe the Book of Mormon to be anything other than falsehood.

Most adult Christians are of the devil otherwise they wouldn't support ANY book that supports rape when it constitutes a felony violation of law, whether the woman is married or not. But the Chinese are evil because it is predominantly a non-Christian nation (sarcasm).