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Disclosure - is it possible and to what extent?

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posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 06:24 PM
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Since the dawn of Ufology we observe a strictly specific movement on its boundaries. This movement is called the need for disclosure. Since the first documented contact cases there were many comments uttered by some researchers and loosely affilaited UFO affectionados that called for "letting people know". This movement has grown in popularity since approximately late 80s when the giant surge of ET activity was well documented and reported. The BBS and after them the Internet became a platform for people to voice their opinions about the subject. And they evolved from loose calls for disclosure to more or less coherent "disclosure movements" we know today.

Such people voice their concerns for the fate of the planet and humanity as a whole in a very straightforward and naive way. They think that letting society know the entire truth about the UFO phenomenon is the only way the subject should be treated by the authorities.

Are they right or wrong?

Let us assume now, for the sake of this discussion, that the government of USA (for example) took an active role in researching the phenomenon. There is little doubt that if the phenomenon is real it must've attracted governmental and specifically military attention. The reasons for this are obvious and numerous evidence points out that such research was and is carried on.

So now we got one truth - that government began researching UFOs. Where did they go from then?
There were several possible roads to take from there. If they managed to contact the extraterrestials, they might've created some sort of agreement with them, whose details we don't know. they might've contacted the extraterrestials and the contact ended in confrontation leading to hostile relations. Or thye didn't contact them and had to gather data about them the hard way.

Either way, the government has put a lot of resources into getting as much information about the ETs as possible. First of all, such beings are an evident threat. They surpass us in all fields of technology and science so they can easily circumvent any possible restrictions and invade our sovereignity with impunity. that does not sit well with military. Second, their presence makes the entire social and political structure useless - and if they're related to our evolution as some researchers think, they could single-handedly obliterate our entire worldview. Such an event would be of unbelievable proportions, causing entire planet to fall into total chaos.

Now, let's us be honest for a while. Neither us nor the aliens are "benevolent" per se. Every being in this universe pursues its own agenda. The entire wide-eyed view of space brothers descending from heavens and solving all of our problems is good for 5-year olds, not grown men. If the aliens are there, they have their own very real reasons and very real agenda. More probably than not they're more interested in well being of their own species than ours. Funny thing is, our governments think the very same of them. It is a very real, very life-like scenario where we've got two parties, one on a definitely shaky ground (our govenrments) and the other standing firmly on their Mount Olympus of technology and psychic and scientific skills.

So is the disclosure possible in such a scenario?

Not likely.

From government's point of view, things are way too far. If there was disclosure, lots of dirty secrets would have to be shown publicly. From MILABs to testing alien technology and covering up the tragedy of abductees. The government has way too much to lose here. They would have to explain several decades of lies and outright fabrication. That is the so-called "ethical" part. Here comes the "pactical" part: The aforementioned breakdown of order. The governments of Earth are none to happy to hear that their grip on power might be loosened or completely shattered. Power is like a narcotic. Potent and subversive, it takes control of you until nothing more than it matters. This can be exploited and probably is by the opposing party (the aliens). These beings know full well, that the government is trapped. They would practically cause the entire society to fall apart by disclosing their coverup. Also they would instantly lose all credibility forever. And they would lose power and influence. Bad business.

From the aliens' point of view it's hard to tell. It depends on their motives. From what the researchers have gathered, their plans look rather sinister. These beings apaprently are not in a business of overt confrontation. Why? Because open invasions are a method of warfare and politics that lesser beings get involved in. They require resources and you risk losing some of your men and equipment. Moreover, you expose yourself as openly hostile, with no room to maneouver.
Real, professional invasion and takeover happens in such a way that the invaded party doesnt even know what hit them. Since the entire breeding and hybridization program points towards full scale "invasion" and exploitation of our species, it must be carried in secret. It's like you take eggs from the hens on your farm, only in this case the hens are slightly more aware and require more work and trickery to be deceived.
The aliens certainly are not afraid. Theyre superior to us technologically and psychically, and we already boggled ourselves in this mud by not disclosing everything when we had a chance to do so. We can't blame the leaders who didnt do it - after all, this might've caused an inter-species war or worldwide tumult the likes of which were never seen before, and no one wants to be responsible for that. It was simply an enormous responsibility with no event in history to relate to. Complete terra incognita. The aliens know that. They know full well, that disclosure wouldn't hur them that much. Or maybe they even plan for this to happen so they can overtly exercise power. But not now, not yet. Or maybe they struck a deal with our leaders: "You shut up and keep the fancy toys, and we won't turn this silly world upside down. We do our business, you do yours". This might even stay like this forever - them parasiting us and us keeping silent about it.

So what do you think? will that naive disclosure and confession ever happen on the part of our government?
Or will it always be like it is now?
And please let's not take FOIA into consideration. That was a great smokescreen. Throw bunch of non-sensitive docs and let the public chew it. "Offfically that's all we've got. you could see the papers. We fulfilled our obligation to our citizens. Now get lost".
.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Jelonek because: corrections

edit on 21-7-2013 by Jelonek because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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A lot of good stuff in that post, mate.


These days, though, I'm leaning towards the theory that the government boys don't know any, if much more, than we do.

If an outside intelligence does exist--and I lean that way--I don't think they are only smart enough to fool us--the layman--and keep their secrets and identities to themselves, but they are probably completely capable of mystifying miltary intelligence as well. And if that's true, then it follows that our gubmint WOULDN'T admit that, eh?

If the gubmint does know more than we do about the subject, however, it might more easily explain their 50+ years of fascination and spending in fields related to electromagnetics would be my momentary "best guess."


edit on 21-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Jelonek
 


There will be disclosure if the government taps into a sort of time travel industry for the public.

In order to implement public time travel we've got to have even more restrictions than we currently have regarding travel and crime.


There can't be disclosure anytime soon until everything is completely under the control of a governing body, immediate disclosure regarding time travel would carry severe global backlash at this current moment in time.



posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Jelonek
 




So what do you think? will that naive disclosure and confession ever happen on the part of our government?


Given that government knows more on the subject than it shares... and I do believe this to be so, to open a dorr for disclosure would indeed confess to decades of lying and cover ups. One step beyond, the public then moves forward to suspect that many other so-called 'conspiracy theories' may hold water.

From there, we see public sentiment already migrating away from a position of trust, gallop away en masse.

Not just UFOs, but JFK, MLK, RFK, 9.11...

Nope. In my humble opinion, I don't see government ever disclosing anything on this subject or any others.



posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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I don't think disclosure would happen until someone (ie ETs) forced the hand of the US Govt. In other words saying they would make themselves known whether or not disclosure happens first. I think something needs to happen to really push for it. At this point, the secrets have been kept for so long that I doubt anybody in the govt really wants to be the first to admit to the people how they have lied to us.



posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 07:23 PM
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A more valid question is "What is Disclosure?".

Many governments around the world have disclosed documentation relevant to the UFO phenomenon; from Photos, Videos, Testimonials etc etc.

Yet still people don't seem to think we have had any disclosure.

The US government itself has released documentation about this phenomenon, yet we still don't have disclosure.

So what do people want or expect?

Does disclosure only happen when the US president comes out and says "UFOs exist and have done for a very long time" (Do that in Obamas voice if you want).

Regardless of what happens, disclosure either doesn't exist or has already occurred.

Either way there will always be skeptics who will never believe in UFOs or Extraterrestrial beings; even if they were abducted, it's probably the government in ET suits.

For me? I've never needed disclosure, I've witnessed things with my own eyes, even if I never witnessed I still wouldn't need "Disclosure" because I have common sense and Logic to reason with!

Those are the only form of "Disclosure" that really exist.

ETA: So when governments come out and say things and release documents; AND you still have people asking for disclosure it means those still asking for it are skeptics who'll never believe.

PS: I've always been meaning to make a thread on this entire "Disclosure" topic and never did, so thanks for the thread and opportunity to express my views on it!




edit on 21-7-2013 by Chipkin9 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-7-2013 by Chipkin9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 07:29 PM
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Well if you mean something like a "full view" disclosure, yea that's going to be hard for them as they are the only ones that have and keep full view of a lot of things. Besides they still need the masses to keep looking to them for answers and protection so they keep the waters muddy mostly.



posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 07:52 PM
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Say, ETs are announced and at a press conference they wave their hand at stage left and shout, "And here they are!" Six little guys with big heads wander on stage and are immediately attacked by the crowd who pull at their clothing and limbs to be the first to get a "piece of history".

They would be pulled apart and the mess left over sold on Ebay to the highest bidder. Can't you order little pieces of the cross in the mail still? Don't they keep a little blood of Jesus in a vial in a church somewhere for people to ogle at?

Believe... (my eyes fog over... beleeeeve)



posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
Say, ETs are announced and at a press conference they wave their hand at stage left and shout, "And here they are!" Six little guys with big heads wander on stage and are immediately attacked by the crowd who pull at their clothing and limbs to be the first to get a "piece of history".

They would be pulled apart and the mess left over sold on Ebay to the highest bidder. Can't you order little pieces of the cross in the mail still? Don't they keep a little blood of Jesus in a vial in a church somewhere for people to ogle at?

Believe... (my eyes fog over... beleeeeve)


Oh god, lol, I can picture that happening so easily.



posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by Jelonek
 


Disclosure will likely occur on 9/16/2016 (the true annual feast of trumpets) when the last 1365 days (from 12/21/12) are complete. On this day, the rapture of the church will likely happen, forcing the Illuminati to mask the truth with "disclosure". The Jewish calendar is solar, not lunar. The mayan calendar is not complete, you must ad the last 5.25 days of the last 13 katuns to truely complete the cycle. They lied about 12/21/12. If the mayan calendar had been measured in back to back 360 day years, it would have ended in the 1950's. The so called aliens are demons (evil transdimensional beings). They are both physical and spiritual. They are playing humanity like a puppet show, dont be fooled by their parlor tricks.



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 02:38 AM
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Thanks for your opinions friends.

I would like to elaborate on that "disclosure happens but people fail to see it" angle.

We all know that the best thing to do is to hide truth in plain sight. I think there's something of this happening now - that is, we're fed truth (or truth mixed with lies), because the ones who do it know well that we won't believe it. The current stance of US Government(and most other govt's) on UFOs is as follows: "We do not monitor or analyze or research the unidetified flying objects". Please see that there's no "there's no UFOs" statement there. In other words, they openly ACCEPT the fact that UFOs are real. Go figure - Air Force, when asked about UFOs will tell you that they're not in their orbit of interests. Again, no outright denial of their existence.

How did the cover-up happen and in what way?
When US found out about UFOs, they were in a very, very dire situation. The Cold War was in full swing and America was so proud of their war effort. They had nuclear bomb, for God's sake. They began building jet planes. The dawn of Atomic Age was upon them. Future was bright.

And then they understood that it might not be as cool as it sounds.

The government, at one point in time, had to take an action regarding UFOs. They were blatantly showing themselves around, kidnapping citizens, making fun of the military. Theyw ere invading US borders with no effort at all. So the research was carried on. Probably one or more disks were retreived. Work began on tracking and engaging the objects (there is a lot of speculation whether Roswell crash happened because of the eletromagnetic impulses generated by the storm or was it intense radar impulse that brought the craft down). There was entire problem of silencing the witnesses and inventing cover stories. The cover was also needed because MILABs were to be carried out to find out what the hell were the aliens doing with our people, and to spy on the aliens by means of subversive mind programming and our own implants - and if the society found out that they were kidnapped by their very own military, the ramifications could be enormous and disastrous.

So the best of the best people in field of psychology and psychiatry as well as sociology were put to work to create a shroud of plausible deniability. Contrary to what many UFO buffs say, it's not that difficult to uncover their methods. Problem lies in sifting through the material they provide and finding whats right and whats wrong.

Why is that so?

As you well know, the easiest way to lose trail is to add so many smells to your tracks that the dogs will lose their scent. The same happens here. The UFO research field is fed with information that is contradictory. The researchers are provoked to carry on vendettas against each other (that childish "he lies, I don't" debate), also there are a lot of government-sponsored agents that infiltrate the field and turn it upside down. They create lore, mix truths with reality and so on.

Now, at some point of this mishmash, when the research on UFOs is discredited enough and most of the society considers this to be a loony bin, they could've started to feed REAL, TRUE data into the grinder. Why? Because no one would believe it, thats why. If the field of your research is already filled with lies, deceit and smokescreens, you could be looking at truth laying in plain sight and you won't see it.

I think there's something of it happening right now. We've got enough bits and pieces to know that there's something very wrong going on. We know that there are extraterrestials - several races of them, in fact. We know that they're here for as long as we are or even longer. We know they might be carryingout an invasion and exploitation of our species. We even have some proof. But no one will believe UFO researchers. Why? Because of the aforementioned chaos and lunacy the UFO research was infested with.

In that case, we can say that partial isclosure has been going on for years. But no one will believe it.

What do you think?



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Jelonek
 


Work began on tracking and engaging the objects (there is a lot of speculation whether Roswell crash happened because of the eletromagnetic impulses generated by the storm or was it intense radar impulse that brought the craft down).

Right after WWII the area around where the Roswell crash occurred was a hot test bed for every captured German weapons system. V1 buzz bombs, V2 rockets, radar, guided missiles. It was a rapid development period of higher tech weapons systems. The TV guided missile technology the Germans first developed and used at the end of the war was being further developed.

I agree with you that this activity drew "unknowns" which may have been tracked and subsequently shot down by such a weapon. The Roswell site is supposed to really be two sites. One debris and the other crash, just like occurs when an aircraft is "impacted" by something and then crashes further down range.

Too bad we haven't gotten that bit of disclosure yet. If the US government laid a "trap" for one or more of these objects it would have for sure radar data and maybe photo or film evidence from the event. Letting alone a "crashed" disk for a minute, it makes sense that they would try to do this and the "Aliens" might be unaware that that technology existed. Until it happened.

Notice there has never been another story like Roswell since, i.e., a "crash"? All other stories that I am aware are of sightings and or landings which are seemingly not susceptible to even the most modern of "smart" weapons systems.

They got caught with their pants down... once.








There were also numerous surface to air variants of these being developed by the Germans but their deployment was limited at the end of the war. Can you imagine an American desert bristling with these two years after the war (1947)?



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by Jelonek
 


Only the mentally assisted need a disclosure. Those with a bit of common sense already know that extraterrestrial macro organisms exist in plenty numbers and diversity out there. Confirmation from any third party is irrelevant and worthless because of the potential manipulation of the truth to follow some agenda..



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by _damon
reply to post by Jelonek
 

Those with a bit of common sense already know that extraterrestrial macro organisms exist in plenty numbers and diversity out there.


Based on what? A couple movies and documentaries with hearsay?

Where is the evidence? And don't tell me to look at the sky or that they've "always been here".

Where is the proof we are not alone?

I can agree the possibility of ET out there, but what I don't agree with for the moment is that they are here enough to "Disclose".



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 02:45 PM
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To me the disclosure question is "Disclose What?"

We can start from a point that a number of Western nations have now released their UFO files. This is a very basic disclosure and may be all that there really is to know about the whole topic. I personally doubt that but it should be considered. There was most definitely a cover-up in the 1950s to dampen public interest but was this because 1st contact had been made or were the "Powers that be" as dumbfounded by it all as we are today and wanting to avoid panic?



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by Chipkin9
A more valid question is "What is Disclosure?".

Most people will only accept disclosure if it fits what they already believe. A few years back, the government said it wasn't aware of any aliens, and had no solid proof that aliens existed. Simple as that. That was the disclosure. But few people who cared believed them because it didn't match up with what they believed.

So, basically, if disclosure depends on corroborating what people believe, rather than the facts as they stand, then it's just a joke.



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 03:21 PM
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Thanks for your input guys.

A few things I'd like to address.

First, please take note that for the purpose of this discussion we added a sine qua non variable of extraterrestials being real and present on Earth. Therefore its not a discussion about whether they exist or not.

Second, I'd like to put that discussion in a perspective of the postulated "worldwide total disclosure" that some groups and many naive UFO fans propose. You might've misinterpreted me, but I know full well that "crawling" or "backyard" disclosure has been going on for years now.

Question is, would either party (i.e. Govt or aliens) try to do such thing? My bet is NO. It's childish, serves no purpose for either of the parties and worst of all it could crumple everything we've got. Some truths are not worth the price...or are they?

That is the question. Is it worth the price?

One of our friends here at the beginning of this topic proposed that maybe the government is in the dark as well. That is an interesting angle to work on. If they're really in the deep, black hole then maybe they're more desperate for answers that we are. Some of the governmental activity points towards that. MILABs and their frantic, often rushed character frequently mentioned by abductees show that the government is panically trying to keep up with the aliens. Or at least some part of the government does that. Some UFO reports that show planes trying to chase the UFOs might show that the military is trying in vain to enforce their way on our skies - to no success.

Did you read Corso's "Day after Roswell"? His take on the subject is very sensational and if true, might provide some input to why do we have fiber optics, super miniaturized integrated circuits, kevlar, stealth technology and some other things the miliary doesn't show for obvious reasons. Question is - is it a product of JOINT COOPERATION or LUCKY SHOT at taking and reverse engineering one of the crashed craft. This is a disclosure of sorts - the way the technology rapidly a ccelerated during latest half of a century is so astonishing one begins to wonder whether there's something more to it than sudden influx of genius minds in the think tanks.

Right now most of my fellow participants agree that:

1) The disclosure proposed in the way I asked about is impossible
2) The partial disclosure is happening all the time
3) There won't be probably any change in the "no talk" policy anytime soon.

edit on 22-7-2013 by Jelonek because: x



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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Disclosure isnt necessary any longer. The vast amount of historical-world wide evidence is proof all by a preponderance of that evidence.

You are way far off if you think we'll get one announcement by all the nations in the world standing together hugging each other on some mountaintop saying "Yes. They are here!!'...it will never happen like that. Never. Thats why there are wars over opinions, agenda, religions, and he-said-they-said.

We will never get any-one group to agree to annouce a single statement like that. It just wont happen. Someone, somewhere will put that "DISCLOSURE" into a site like ATS where it will be denied, detracted, picked apart and labeled a "false flag"...just like all major announcements are here now.



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 03:48 PM
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Id like to point out that I dont believe in disclosure. My posts should point into my conclusion. Im merely interested whether someone has another take on the subject and can show arguments why such thing would work.

Im an extremely down-to earth person and for me disclosure is impossible for reasons I mentioned. Question remains - can it be plausible in any extent? Many researchers hypothesized how such an event would look like and whether its necessary or not.



posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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Cable TV shows, DVDs, Books, Newspapers, internet have already disclosed information. Most people choose denial. Children, older persons (such as my 71 year old mother) could not handle the truth. She wont even discuss the idea and gets angry. It would cause anxiety, not panic. Anxious people are not productive. I think we are observed with extreme caution. Humans are violent, greedy, germy and less intelligent. Even college level thinkers probably would find the truth in reality difficult to understand.



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