Buckeye Firearms Association Seeking Donations To Buy George Zimmerman A New Gun

So many ad hominem on this thread!

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Wrong!

My argument says that he is being Victimized by the likes of you.

He has been convicted of nothing.

You lack a Psychology Degree so I submit that you are talking out your @$$. You don't even have a common frame of reference as to what Crazy even is.

Any my arugment involving OJ is that he's being victimized by the likes of you. What's your point?

Do you truly believe that everyone that has been acquitted in a murder trial is innocent? Oh... you already answered that... OJ is a murderer in your mind... nevermind. And I think Zimmerman is a murderer.

You don't know what I lack... see how you've judged based on nothing? What you do know is that I have 2 Masters and am a PhD candidate. One of my Masters may be in Psychology.

reply to post by SilentKillah

What you do know is that I have 2 Masters and am a PhD candidate. One of my Masters may be in Psychology

Definitely Not.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Before you continue to insult my education and intelligence, please obtain two Masters and at least be working on a PhD. Secondly add 10 years of management both as a commissioned officer and as a civilian in DoD and Department of Treasury. Lastly, learn avionics and fly a fighter, coordinate with Tactical Air Control Party and Joint Terminal Air Controllers and successfully conduct air strikes on hostile locations providing air support for our ground troops. Once you have accomplished all of these tasks, you can criticize my education and intelligence all you want

Pictures or it didn't happen.

I honestly do not believe that at all. If that was really the case then you would not allow your ignorance to precede you. Zimmerman was found Not guilty. ANY educated man knows that.

Pics for what? So you can know my name? I think not... have you stalking me, instigating a fight, and killing me to claim self defense? You must be crazy.

I'm glad to have been of service for this country. I'm glad to continue to serve this nation in my newly appointed duties at the Department of Treasury. I will continue to serve just as many others do. Don't believe it... I don't do this for you. I do it for the country as a whole.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

What you do know is that I have 2 Masters and am a PhD candidate. One of my Masters may be in Psychology

Definitely Not.

And you'd be right. Nothing to do with Psychology. Still doesn't mean I'm not intelligent enough to understand that PTSD is serious and episodes can occur undiagnosed.

reply to post by SilentKillah

I don't do this for you. I do it for the country as a whole

Ya do?

You do all that for the country, but, a man who is not convicted of anything deserves to have his rights taken away?

Surely you are kidding.

For someone who says they are so educated should not have a problem answering these simple questions. .. .

Do you believe in "Double Jeopardy"? If so please explain.

Do you think that it is acceptable that the Department of Justice continues to pursue a civil case against George Zimmerman even though he was acquitted by a jury of his peers? If so please explain.

Are you For having your rights diminished for the sake of one person that you do not agree with? If so please explain.

Do you believe that gun laws should be changed? If so please explain.

Do you believe that those freedoms guaranteed to every US Citizens should be re-written for the sake of this case? If so please explain.

Originally posted by riffraff

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by riffraff

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by n3mesis

 

I think you missed the point.

It is Not about the dollar.

It is about those Freedoms that WE as U.S. Citizens are guaranteed based on the doctrines set forth by Our Forefathers.

How noble. So if somebody guns down someone you love and gets away with it using a bogus law, we'll be sure to use that as a platform to express our Right to bare arms and restock the murderer with a new gun and bullets.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)

That would be true except for one glaring disconnect in your logic. Zimmerman didn't murder anyone. Now that you've been educated please stop propagating agenda driven lies.

Interesting. What agenda are you referring to, and what lie am I propagating?

edit on 22-7-2013 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)

The agenda is to get the public to think that guns are evil and white men are hateful racists.
The lie you are propagating is that Martin was murdered for looking suspicious while minding his business.
The truth is that Martin was killed in self defense while committing assault and battery.
I will not debate this fact. The jury already debated and decided.

edit on 22-7-2013 by riffraff because: (no reason given)

That's not an agenda and I never said anything about guns being evil and I was not debating anything with you. I stated my opinion, and it remains the same.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

Are you sayingt that you will Deny the Exact same right to him that have been granted to you?

He was acquited. He is not a murderer by any stretch.

What do you have to gain by denying him his rights?

He can buy an army load of guns for all I care. That wasn't my point.

Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by jimmyx

 

because you know exactly what is going to be done with your donation

That is right. Like it says. They will be getting him a new gun.

What were you thinking that they were going to do with the money?

The point he's making is if they receive $25,000 worth of donations, I doubt they'll give his $25,000 woth of guns. They're going to pocket the rest. Don't be so naive.

You figure they will eh? You figure they'll commit felony fraud in fundraising under false pretenses in a case SO high profile and SO high visibility, the President of the United States himself is directly following events? Hell.. If they are that brave, foolish and just plain ignorant ..maybe they'd deserve the money as a gift of pity. They'd sure have earned such pity after such unthinkable levels of stupid as to play games on this one.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

I don't do this for you. I do it for the country as a whole

Ya do?

Yes.

You do all that for the country, but, a man who is not convicted of anything deserves to have hios rights taken away?

Yes. He killed someone whether he was convicted or murder or not.

Surely you are kidding.

No I am not.

For someone who says they are so educated should not have a problem answering these simple questions. .. .

Do you believe in "Double Jeopardy"? If so please explain.

I never said he should be tried again. I'm arguing the fact that he should not be permitted to own a gun.

Do you think that it is acceptable that the Department of Justice continues to pursue a civil case against George Zimmerman even though he was acquitted by a jury of his peers? If so please explain.

The DOJ (if I understand correctly) is pursuing a case against his actions profiling and stalking a black teenager. This is a civil rights violation, not a murder sharge. I haven't been following up on this, so I'm not sure. I don't even care to look into this honestly.

Are you For having your rights diminished for the sake of one person that you do not agree with? If so please explain.

Am I for this?.. well it depends on how I look at it. If you're talking about Constitutional rights, no. If you're talking about Florida's "Stand your Ground" law which is not applied equally in the first place, then yes.

But... how are your or anyone else's rights being diminshed? Because it is thought that Zimmerman should not own a gun affects you how?

Do you believe that gun laws should be changed? If so please explain.

Yes. The laws of owning a gun no. The laws determining the circumstances in which a gun can be used, yes. In Officer Training School, I was taught to meet force with equal force. Shooting and killing someone who is unarmed during a fight may be self defense, but it is not appropriate self defense. I fear my life every time I get in a car, does that mean I should be able to shoot at other drivers?

Do you believe that those freedoms guaranteed to every US Citizens should be re-written for the sake of this case? If so please explain.

Those freedoms? There's only one that applies... the second ammendment. It is already poorly written, nobody truly knows what's meant by a militia today vice 222 years ago. The guns are today are unimagineable compared to the single shot, 30 second reload guns in that time. Yes, I believe this ammendment needs to seriously be looked over and modernized.

For the sake of this case? No... for the sake of this, Columbine, Sandy Hook, and many other gun crimes involving children.

I'll bet if there were talks about re-writing or abolishing the sixteenth ammendment you wouldn't be complaining one bit. Re-write it if it benefits us, leave it alone if it doesn't is the mentality.

reply to post by SilentKillah

The DOJ (if I understand correctly) is pursuing a case against his actions profiling and stalking a black teenager. This is a civil rights violation, not a murder sharge. I haven't been following up on this, so I'm not sure. I don't even care to look into this honestly.

No.... That wouldn't be understanding correctly. The FBI investigated THAT aspect of it before the state even filed charges on this case for what would eventually go into a court room and see him 100% and fully acquitted. The Justice Department found there was zero basis for pursuing anything on racial grounds. So, this is a different theory of violation to civil rights and race is not necessarily related to civil rights cases on any level. That's just one factor.


I have a serious question though on the last part there. If you don't care to look into this, why spend multiple PAGES as one of the more outspoken fighters on ATS right now for it? I mean, isn't there a term for folks who fight while giving no real care or concern for the topic or specifics of what the fight is about? I couldn't help but lock on the statement there. it's SO hard out of place, given these pages of debate.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by jimmyx

 

because you know exactly what is going to be done with your donation

That is right. Like it says. They will be getting him a new gun.

What were you thinking that they were going to do with the money?

The point he's making is if they receive $25,000 worth of donations, I doubt they'll give his $25,000 woth of guns. They're going to pocket the rest. Don't be so naive.

You figure they will eh? You figure they'll commit felony fraud in fundraising under false pretenses in a case SO high profile and SO high visibility, the President of the United States himself is directly following events? Hell.. If they are that brave, foolish and just plain ignorant ..maybe they'd deserve the money as a gift of pity. They'd sure have earned such pity after such unthinkable levels of stupid as to play games on this one.

Now we have an argument that I can agree with and say maybe they won't. But if they give him a gun and the equipment as stated leaving $18,000 left over, then they have not misrepresented their intentions. Furthermore, failure to disclose a fact (i.e. keeping any profit above the stated intentions) does not fit into false pretenses. Another common law... maybe, but I'm not sure what that law is.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

The DOJ (if I understand correctly) is pursuing a case against his actions profiling and stalking a black teenager. This is a civil rights violation, not a murder sharge. I haven't been following up on this, so I'm not sure. I don't even care to look into this honestly.

No.... That wouldn't be understanding correctly. The FBI investigated THAT aspect of it before the state even filed charges on this case for what would eventually go into a court room and see him 100% and fully acquitted. The Justice Department found there was zero basis for pursuing anything on racial grounds. So, this is a different theory of violation to civil rights and race is not necessarily related to civil rights cases on any level. That's just one factor.

An FBI investigation into an issue is not a jury acquitting him on racial charges. He can be tried for this different act. If that's not what they're trying to do, then, please enlighten me on to WHAT IT IS they are trying to do. I don't know... just listening to the radio leads me to think that's what it is.

I have a serious question though on the last part there. If you don't care to look into this, why spend multiple PAGES as one of the more outspoken fighters on ATS right now for it? I mean, isn't there a term for folks who fight while giving no real care or concern for the topic or specifics of what the fight is about? I couldn't help but lock on the statement there. it's SO hard out of place, given these pages of debate.

edit on 22-7-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

I don't care about looking into this NEW trial. I DO care about the verdict of the old trial and its possible impact on the future of people getting away with murder and claiming self defense. This thread is about giving Zimmerman guns... not about the NEW case. I'm not even sure how we got on this topic, but it's something I've been attemptin to avoid until ShadellacZumbrum insisted that I answer his specific questions that I have no concern for.

reply to post by SilentKillah


On the fundraising, I will agree with your point in one very key way. They are raising money to buy *A* gun. I don't think these well meaning but somewhat simple minded folks appreciated what that call might DO in this polarized nation at this moment in time for response.

They'll end up with far more than ever needed for 1 gun, to be sure. So what will happen to the rest? I'm as curious as you are. I'm just certain it won't be criminal or fraudulent. Not on this one and not when it's THIS high profile. After all, the friend of my enemy is my enemy too. Isn't that how the rest of the thinking goes on that enemy of my enemy nonsense our Government seems to function with these days?

So standing up to support Mr. Z will put them in the jackpot as much as he is for Government attention. I'm guessing they have more than one attorney and are following things to the precise letter. If not already, then they will be very very soon. They won't have any choice, I imagine.

reply to post by SilentKillah

An FBI investigation into an issue is not a jury acquitting him on racial charges. He can be tried for this different act. If that's not what they're trying to do, then, please enlighten me on to WHAT IT IS they are trying to do. I don't know... just listening to the radio leads me to think that's what it is.

You're absolutely right that the former investigation isn't an acquittal. However, the problem is, FBI is the Justice Departments enforcement and investigation division, so to speak. They are the investigators and they DID investigate this, in a serious and very intentional way, once before. They found no basis and nowhere left to go with it.

Now how rotten will it smell if the same people who, not that long ago, found nowhere left to go and nothing worthy to pursue ...SUDDENLY come up with a big case that somehow didn't exist the first time? They certainly didn't just not try hard enough the first time through. I am sure they did investigate with the intention of nailing him that time too.

Now since there doesn't seem to BE any Civil Rights basis, it's hard to know their thinking. However, on one legal analysis I read of this, the thinking is that they may go for Zimmerman denying Trayvon his Federal Civil Right of free movement and passage through public spaces...or some such thing. It's REALLLLY stretching, but then, this whole thing is, by definition.

* My bad on the second part. I misread your meaning and admit my mistake. Sorry about that. Believe it or not, some actually have argued pages like this and then, like a Scooby Doo ending, revealed themselves to basically have been trolling for the hate and discontent with little more to have motivated it. Really...my bad on that, given your clarification.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

On the fundraising, I will agree with your point in one very key way. They are raising money to buy *A* gun. I don't think these well meaning but somewhat simple minded folks appreciated what that call might DO in this polarized nation at this moment in time for response.

They'll end up with far more than ever needed for 1 gun, to be sure. So what will happen to the rest? I'm as curious as you are. I'm just certain it won't be criminal or fraudulent. Not on this one and not when it's THIS high profile. After all, the friend of my enemy is my enemy too. Isn't that how the rest of the thinking goes on that enemy of my enemy nonsense our Government seems to function with these days?

So standing up to support Mr. Z will put them in the jackpot as much as he is for Government attention. I'm guessing they have more than one attorney and are following things to the precise letter. If not already, then they will be very very soon. They won't have any choice, I imagine.

I guess that they are taking a page from the book of those that oppose them.

From their own website.

Buckeye Firearms Association seeks to maximize your rights by endorsing and electing pro-gun candidates on the city, county, and state level, including mayors, sheriffs, legislators, and governor. We also work to defeat anti-gun legislation, pass pro-gun bills, and reform existing laws to benefit all Ohio citizens.

Unlike many anti-gun groups, we do not get our funding or support from wealthy activists or big corporations. We are a non-partisan, all-volunteer organization. Officers and supporters donate their time and skills to the pro-gun cause. Not a single dime from donors is spent on salaries or wasteful overhead. In fact, every penny is used to support political campaigns, influence public opinion, and advance gun rights around Ohio.

It all sounds good but I won't be giving any money to this particular campaign, and am thinking about giving up my membership because of it. It's a money grab. Nothing more, nothing less. Other organizations are doing the same.

reply to post by TDawgRex


For what it's worth? I'm not sending them a dime, either. It's a principle thing that started with me after 9/11 and seeing the "most trusted" National and International charities rip off the nation like it was a sport and then argue with indignation against anyone who questioned their theft of donated money to other causes. Hurricane Sandy funds are now, likewise stolen/diverted or otherwise made off with.

If the BIG ones can play people like fools and then smile at our ignorance in thinking we could complain? I don't trust the outcome of smaller ones to spit for. I don't think this one intends to break any laws ...but legal and ethical can be different, huh? It WILL be interesting to see what they do when they have xx thousands of dollars and ONE gun can only take so much of it, even with maximum money wasting effort. lol

* They could go buy a genuine John Wayne firearm or some other item to eat the money in one shot, I suppose..

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Before you continue to insult my education and intelligence, please obtain two Masters and at least be working on a PhD. Secondly add 10 years of management both as a commissioned officer and as a civilian in DoD and Department of Treasury. Lastly, learn avionics and fly a fighter, coordinate with Tactical Air Control Party and Joint Terminal Air Controllers and successfully conduct air strikes on hostile locations providing air support for our ground troops. Once you have accomplished all of these tasks, you can criticize my education and intelligence all you want

Pictures or it didn't happen.

I honestly do not believe that at all. If that was really the case then you would not allow your ignorance to precede you. Zimmerman was found Not guilty. ANY educated man knows that.

While I may not agree with everything that Silent has said, everything he has presented was clear and did not "smack of retardation" as you so eloquently put it.
So, instead of constantly trying to put other peoples opinions down by calling them ignorant or trying to insult their intelligence, perhaps you should take a page from Silent's book and debate your points in a more mature manner.

Believe me, insulting others does nothing for your arguments.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Charities can be and often are a rip-off, same with the PAC's. I'm a member of the BFA, NRA, GOA, VFW and American Legion. I pay my dues and that is it. Unless I can actually see where my money is going.

The two charities that I do donate to are Puppies behind Bars, and the Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind. I looked up their stats and they are above board.

People need to research and think before they just emotionally donate.

But as PT Barnum said. "There's a sucker born every minute."

reply to post by Visitor2012


Bogus Law??

self defense in not a bogus law