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NY food stamp recipients are shipping welfare-funded groceries to relatives in Jamaica, Dominican Re

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posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


If you have a group of say 10 Haitian/American family's in New York, pooling their legally attained food stamps and buying food in bulk, which is illegal, and they find that they actually have a surplus of food, so that they can send bags of rice and beans to Jamaica, that is civil disobedience, not fraud.


If they obtained the assistance using false pretense en mass, it's not civil disobedience, it's mass fraud, and theft, and quite a few other actual charges.

If they obtained the assistance legally, and got back to a point where they didn't need the assistance and continued receiving it, it's theft and more.

Government assistance is NOT meant to be anything more than you need to survive, YOU, not your family (not counting children when I reference family). If your family also needs assistance here in America, apply for it, that's what it's there for. If your family is overseas and YOU send them YOUR assistance, you don't need the assistance and are stealing




posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by KnowledgeSeeker81
 


Dude, you are totally missing the point, furthermore, you don't understand the problem.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by windword
 


I think I do though. Do you like Obama as president?



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by KnowledgeSeeker81
 


well i don't think welfare is a fraudulent program. i also think poverty (and alternatively, too much money) can lead to genetic abnormalities. and over generations, can actually handicap whole groups of people, such as feeding people GMOs enmasse, can lead to genetic abnormalities, that over generations (or even a few months) can lead to serious mutations. or not educating people for generations can lead to a new dark ages.

now consider the inner cities have been deliberately isolated pockets of horrific violence, drug lord infiltrations from other nations with backwards ideas about human worth, systemic poverty and generational survival of the fittest forced on to the them as a result of lack of compassion and love for these people, we should all get off our duffs, and with as much food and clothes we can spare, descend enmasse on our inner cities and give these people back hope. cause the guy they voted in, has given them no other option than violence, and that has been part of the problem from the get go.

i mean 2000 years ago, jesus said we should do away with slavery. 2000 years ago. let me repeat that, 2000 years ago. and today, we are having to go thru this craziness as a nation because 1700 years later, we still hadn't solved the issue. now we've finally solved the issue and yet no one could understand the impact of such a life style on the people and their descendants. i am willing to bet, every single man woman and child in the inner cities of our nation are suffering with massive, systemic, generational PTSD!


edit on 23-7-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by KnowledgeSeeker81
reply to post by windword
 


I think I do though. Do you like Obama as president?


Why don't you address the issue that I addressed here? www.abovetopsecret.com...



edit on 23-7-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by KnowledgeSeeker81
 


well i don't think welfare is a fraudulent program. i also think poverty (and alternatively, too much money) can lead to genetic abnormalities. and over generations, can actually handicap whole groups of people, such as feeding people GMOs enmasse, can lead to genetic abnormalities, that over generations (or even a few months) can lead to serious mutations. or not educating people for generations can lead to a new dark ages.

I didn't mean to refer to welfare in general as a fraudulent program, my apologies. I was using the term to generalize the misuse of it. I agree, with your opinions of GMO's, we didn't need them in the past, we don't need them now.

See I'm not so unreasonable


Originally posted by undo
reply to post by KnowledgeSeeker81
 


now consider the inner cities have been deliberately isolated pockets of horrific violence, drug lord infiltrations from other nations with backwards ideas about human worth, systemic poverty and generational survival of the fittest forced on to the them as a result of lack of compassion and love for these people, we should all get off our duffs, and with as much food and clothes we can spare, descend enmasse on our inner cities and give these people back hope. cause the guy they voted in, has given them no other option than violence, and that has been part of the problem from the get go.

Won't argue this much other than do you think anything we do could/would change their voting opinion? Could you offer them the same as what their vote would?


Originally posted by undo
reply to post by KnowledgeSeeker81
 

i mean 2000 years ago, jesus said we should do away with slavery. 2000 years ago. let me repeat that, 2000 years ago. and today, we are having to go thru this craziness as a nation because 1700 years later, we still hadn't solved the issue. now we've finally solved the issue and yet no one could understand the impact of such a life style on the people and their descendants. i am willing to bet, every single man woman and child in the inner cities of our nation are suffering with massive, systemic, generational PTSD!


edit on 23-7-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

I am not religious in any way shape or form, I don't mean to stir any pots but religious aspects simply do not apply to me. I am, however a good person in nature. As far as the PTSD thing, they only suffer that because it is shoved down their throats by the people they vote into power.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by KnowledgeSeeker81
 


what options do they have, when the newspapers, music and internet forums, re-inforce the ideas they've been brainwashed with -- that everyone else is their enemy, based on skin color. the only way to solve this is for everybody to become the defenders of the poor, inner city or out. not just because they are poor but because they need to know other people care about their plight. you would want to know that someone cared about you if you were surrounded by people who were so abused themselves they didn't have any energy left to spare on your behalf. it's a vicious cycle.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by windword
What an unchristian, disgusting and disappointing thread, except for the rare sanity and empathy injected by a few good people.


I'm not religious, but I'm also a good person


Originally posted by windword
You know what else is illegal to do with food stamps? Cooperative kitchens. Yeah, that's right. It's against the law to use foodstamps to go in with your sister's family and/or your church friend's family to go to Costco and buy in bulk and/or use that food to cook multifamily meals, and/or divide the food up for consumption of more than one family! NO SOCIALISM ALLOWED!


It's not socialism, it is free money provided by the government to allow an INDIVIDUAL survive. If the whole group or family is on food-stamps there is nothing wrong with it. However, I would REALLY question the intentions of that family if they were ALL on food-stamps. It also is not wrong or illegal to contribute YOUR portion of said meal via food-stamps to a collective meal.


Originally posted by windword
Health departments around the USA are trashing privately own farms, killing animal, destroying milk and cheese, forcing neighborhoods to destroy gardens, all in the name of health. NO RAW MILK FOR YOU!!!

UPDATED: Nevada Health Dept Raids Private Organic Picnic: Cited "Food a Biohazard"


A private picnic was raided. Veggies grown on an organic farm and organic meat certified in Utah, had to be thrown away and covered with bleach to prevent it from being fed to pigs.


Mayor Bloomberg is disallowing food donations to the homeless shelters because there might be too much salt or fat content!? NO BAGELS FOR THE HOMELESS!

I'm all for civil disobedience in these cases, including the one the OP's so upset about.

Really!? You guys really need to wake up.

Don't get me started on Bloomberg, we'll become friends quickly, the guys an idiot. As far as the link, I haven't looked at it yet, ATS isn't the only thing I'm doing right now, but I'll certainly check it out.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


But the said people have become defenders of their territory through government assistance. They won't sacrifice that free ride for a change for the better. I've heard "I voted for Obama because he won't take my benefits" more than once, and in several outrageous instances at that, but that's not for here, I've never heard someone say they would be willing to lose their benefits to make a change. Most likely that person would NOT lose their benefits, but they are so scared into believing so that their opinion cannot be swayed.

Change is hard, nearly impossible to happen on an individual basis in America currently. While you may touch a few, thousands more will be swayed by your opponent, you can never democratically win. While the government is busy with divide tactics, we are busy arguing on the internet about what is right or wrong. The benefits provided by our government need a serious upheaval, or a serious outcry in wrongdoings. Egypt of recent comes to mind.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 03:28 AM
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reply to post by ZeroReady
 


Monsanto.. scientifically engineering the natural world for control and green.. that's what people should be up in arms about.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by KnowledgeSeeker81

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by KnowledgeSeeker81
reply to post by GrantedBail
 


Actually quite to the contrary I am one that can speak volumes on this. Currently I am starting my own business, as a direct competitor to a nation-wide large company. I'm doing this on a fast-food managers salary. I'm taking business from this large company, soon I will start employing people myself. Why? Because I am giving everything to this.

I also have been near homeless, and myself applied for government benefits years ago. I got approved the same week I got a job, yea a fast-food mcdonalds type job. I bought myself one weeks worth of groceries, called the welfare department and told them I'm employed now and don't need help. I stuck with my crappy job and was the best and most motivated employee I could be. My crappy fast-food job promoted me.

Now years later through hard work and dedication I am becoming my own boss. The entire time I was struggling, I was paying for others struggling who didn't try. I had/have the determination to SURVIVE in general, and the yearn to always pursue greater things. It's not my fault nor burden to support those not willing to try.


And, if your hard work and wise decisions make you successful, you will transform into the "evil, underserving, selfish, exploitive, wealthy."

You have no idea who I am or the kind of person I am, or what success will or will not make me. Think about that before passing premature judgement.


I apologize if you misunderstood. What I said was a bit of sarcasm directed at those who want to tax and penalize success...the type of people who think that you don't deserve your success and should be taxed more. I thought putting those comments in parenthesis would get that point across, but alas, sometimes things don't translate well on an internet forum.

IMHO, it seems that you worked your ass off and deserve any and all your success and no one has the right to say you don't deserve it.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by KnowledgeSeeker81
 





If the whole group or family is on food-stamps there is nothing wrong with it. However, I would REALLY question the intentions of that family if they were ALL on food-stamps. It also is not wrong or illegal to contribute YOUR portion of said meal via food-stamps to a collective meal.


You're right. It isn't wrong to for several families to collectively use their food stamps to buy in bulk and make multi-family meals and distribute the bulk food to each family that contributed. But it is illegal.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


If you have a group of say 10 Haitian/American family's in New York, pooling their legally attained food stamps and buying food in bulk, which is illegal, and they find that they actually have a surplus of food, so that they can send bags of rice and beans to Jamaica, that is civil disobedience, not fraud.


You can't redefine fraud. If person A says "Hey government, I need food to survive". And government wants to help so gives person A free food that's a good thing. If person B says "Hey government, I need food to survive". And government wants to help and give person B free food, yet person B doesn't consume that food to survive, but sends it overseas to someone else that person is committing welfare fraud. Claiming they themselves need benefits to live when they don't. They want the benefits for other people.

I'm not against person A who needs the food to survive. And I'm not for charity to others in foreign nations if someone wants to help them on their own dime. I am against receiving benefits under false pretenses which is fraud.
edit on 23-7-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by undo
 



well i don't think welfare is a fraudulent program.


Then you have never stood behind someone in line at the store buying a cartful of red meat and using several EBT cards to pay for it.

You might want to check out the CBO report about the rampant fraud in the welfare programs.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by KnowledgeSeeker81
 


what options do they have, when the newspapers, music and internet forums, re-inforce the ideas they've been brainwashed with -- that everyone else is their enemy, based on skin color. the only way to solve this is for everybody to become the defenders of the poor, inner city or out. not just because they are poor but because they need to know other people care about their plight. you would want to know that someone cared about you if you were surrounded by people who were so abused themselves they didn't have any energy left to spare on your behalf. it's a vicious cycle.



That is NOT the best way to help someone. Do you realize why they have "Do not feed the animals" signs in state and National parks??



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by KnowledgeSeeker81
 



It's not socialism, it is free money provided by the government to allow an INDIVIDUAL survive.


That IS Socialism. The redistribution of wealth. Where do you think than money comes from that the Government hands out? It has to take that money from another person. That's why there is a famous quote about Socialism that goes:

"Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money".



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


It's not fraud if those people legally qualify for food stamps.

"Feed my sheep"

But Lord, we only have 2 fish and 2 loaves of bread?

"I'll teach you how to multiply those 2 fish and 2 loaves of bread."

But Lord, the government has given us only enough food stamps to buy 2 fish and 2 loaves of bread. If you teach us how to multiply those food stamps, by families combining their resources to buy in bulk and plan meals for multiple families, we will be breaking Caesar's law!

If a family receives $300 in food stamps, and a family not on food stamps contributes $300 and the 2 families to go together and shop in bulk, then prepares meals or distributes the food equally among the two families, the government has deemed that illegal. It is just as illegal for 2 or more food stamp families to do the same, although tight knit communities do do that, all the time.

Because there may be surplus, due to collective cooperation, allowing the families to purchase more rice and beans to send to their elderly mother, or poverty stricken sister's family in another country, that doesn't mean that they don't need the assistance in the first place, and are committing fraud. However, it is patently illegal to share food purchased with food stamps, period!

If a child brings a food stamp purchased cheese sandwich to school, and trades it for a peanut butter sandwich in the lunch room, that is illegal too!
edit on 23-7-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


We cannot solve this issue,undo.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:58 AM
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notyourtypical and windword you both make very good points, yes we should help our fellow man according to scripture but like notyourtypical said not dishonestly

What would I do?
If I had a hungry family in another country, probably send them the food.

However, how about earn the money yourself, or take up donations, if possible.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 



Whoa, back up,


The practice is so common that hundreds of 45- to 55-gallon cardboard and plastic barrels line the walls of supermarkets in almost every Caribbean corner of the city.


I haven't read this thread so it has probably been asked,

Is this food going to starving relatives or being resold?

They actually sell the barrels too?

I'll be darn.

edit on 103131p://bTuesday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



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