Violence erupts in France over police check of veiled Muslim woman

Double post

reply to post by Memnon


As conquerors, Europeans have been far kinder than the followers of Islam, or the rest of the world's conquering hordes. If you knew history, you would know this.

As far as culture is concerned, I guess you don't believe it exists, or is it just the French or the Europeans who have no culture, in your opinion.

My family fought the NAZIs, so no, I am not into swasticas.

The US was "brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal," to borrow from Abraham Lincoln.

www.abrahamlincolnonline.org...

That was pretty good stuff, so yeah I put out the flag on holidays.

While the US doesn't always live up to the ideal, every now and then, we do.

There are religions I don't like, Islam and Catholicism are among them. When nations dominated by these belief systems obtain a position of power over others, they are far more brutal than the non-catholic European nations. If you knew anything about history, you would know this.

I don't know anything about the Bedouin. If you could recommend a good book on the history I would be interested.

reply to post by Memnon


How am I xenophobic? If you are so unhappy living in a "racist" country then perhaps you should move. Radical thinking I know.....but it appears the only thing you are succeeding in is proving my point that immigrant Muslims will push their agenda regardless of the laws of the country they are moving to.

If they want to break the law, they are lucky that this is the only thing that happens to them. They should put them in jail, considering they are breaking the law. Here is the main issue: these people come to a country like France, and wish for everyone else to give in to their demands. Why should any government have to put up with such nonsense? If these people have religious beliefs that say one thing, then they should go to a country that allows them to wear veils in public. No one is forcing them to come to France, or to stay there. No one is forcing them to cover their head in public and therefore break the law, so why is there such an uproar.

France is NOT a Muslim country. If someone wishes for their Muslim beliefs to trump federal law, they need to move to a country like that. Yet most of these Muslims are probably immigrants who left a country where Sharia law is enforced very strictly in many places. So they left there to get away from the "law" of the land, instead of changing it, so why do they go somewhere else and try to change the law? I will tell you why.

They think these other countries with democracies are "softer." They wish to go there and basically take advantage of the system to get what they want. This is similar to what many Mexican immigrants do when coming to America. They break the law right off the bat by coming into the country illegally, and then they don't pay taxes because they work off the books, and then they of course don't have health insurance and clog up all the cheap and free clinics that are available, and then they often get whatever gov. assistance they can.

It is basically just immigrants taking over and taking advantage of the system, putting a drain on those who are in a country legally. They wish to go against the law when it serves their purpose, and they wish to use the law when it serves their purpose. There is no honor in that at all. And regarding Mexican immigrants, they pay thousands of dollars to a guide to sneak them over the border. IF they can afford to do that, they can afford to come into the country legally. So it is blatant disregard for the law when it serves their purpose, and then they use the law to their advantage to get what they want. Sickening.

Originally posted by Bluesma
The muslim man tried to choke a policeman because he simply wanted to see the womans ID.
The arab population is always causing total mayhem and violence over the simplest crap. The authorities are unable to do anything, and the country is being overtaken.


-And yes, I know, as usual, I will be accused of being a racist hysteric for saying that, by someone who doesn't live here. Oh well. Just watch and see. Christianity took over the world once, with violence, and now is the turn of Islam.
We say to ourselves that we have evolved beyond such things, but cycles turn and repeat regardless.

I don't see any problems here. I don't think everyone is thinking on the right wave length. What im reading when i see this is people not taking crap when an officer decides to *enforce the rah* as stated. Strip searches in Merica' and the sheeple do nothing. Oinkers try to take an inch and the muslims rip apart a mile.

If you ask me, Id rather the muslim world not be a push over. Makes it harder for the new world order to be established and human rights taken away if they are afraid to even check your pockets.
Anyone else catch my drift?

Originally posted by Unity_99
.

Um....there is no cycle that forces this upon the christians due to the past.

You misunderstood what I wrote. Sounds like you are refering to some sort of karma, or pay back, to the Christians?

That is far from what i meant. I was refering to a larger cycle of civilisation, in which certain ideologies and religions rise and become more powerful and widespread, then eventually fall as another takes it's turn. The way a country rises to become a world power at certain times, then descends later, as another takes it's turn.

This is looking at the physical world with a nonlinear type of view, a spiral perception of nature; in which there is not a beginning an end, but a perpetual turning of cycles.

Within this turning, individual sparks of consciousness evolve in a linear perception, but to make clear what I mean, consider the metaphor of a school yard. It may always be full of kids, and they are growing and moving out of it as other ones move in, but the school yard itself is not changing. The swings continue to swing back and forth, no matter who is in them, the merry-go-round continues to turn, despite the changing identities of the children on it.

There will always be major world religions, but not always the same ones.

The only thing i can think anymore when i see things from
religion is this:

“The first law of reason is that what exists, exists; what is, is, and that from this ineducible, bedrock principle, all knowledge is built...that is the foundation from which life is embraced... thinking is a choice...wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discover them... reason is our only way of grasping reality--it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking--to reject reason--but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see... Reason is the very substance of truth itself. The glory that is life is wholly embraced through reason. In rejecting reason one embraces death.”
― Terry Goodkind, Faith of the Fallen

I think it is a very good statement on the reality vs fantasy ideals
religion forces on others, i am sick of respecting something that
does not deserve respect at all, lies, anger, violence, forced
ignorance is just getting old.

Also to those who think a cultural right should be extended to this type
of behavior, i say that is complete BS, culture is not the freedom to
force others into your ideals, it is not the freedom to demean women,
to ignore that they are human beings with rights, that is tantamount
to saying that slavery in the US was just a cultural heritage and
should have been treated as such. You cannot give blanket immunity
for enslavement on the guise of cultural rights, human rights have
to come first.

Originally posted by Memnon

Click here for more information.

Epic new member fail.

Maybe you should join a site that's more geared towards teenagers?

Just saying

Aaaaaaaaaaah

Again ?

I think you should reconsider thinking western version of Islam is Islam.

Even if it is implemented in Muslim countries.

You waNT TO BLAME iSLAM

let me help you



remember that the war on Islam is war on true Islam which will not allow oppressors , greedy invaders , wolves and hyenas in west take over resources of Muslim countries for free.

That is what western globalists are afraid of.

And they should be.

And these magnifying attitudes are to keep you in your long lasting hate , rage and terror to keep you ready for more war and more destruction.

And if truth hurts , put your fingers in your ears

reply to post by xavi1000


Those who are against the law of the country they reside in should be deported!!

reply to post by Menedes567


And with that kind of thinking, we would still be making black people sit at the back of the bus, and drink from seperate fountains etc etc.

Originally posted by TheMagus
LOL
i'm having a moment of "Sanity" here, so bear with me

perhaps the french authorities could allow muslim men who insist on having their women wear the veil a choice:
you may do so; however any woman who "chooses" to wear a veil is AUTOMATICALLY under house arrest.
they can choose having to keep their wives locked up at home or in jail; either way muslim men will then have to do all the shopping, taking kids to school, and other housewify things.

problem solved

ahhh "Insanity" returns...

...carry on with the two minutes hate disguised as concern with women's rights

Assuming you're a heterosexual male, what does your partner think about these"housewifey things" you've mentioned? Some fellow males strike me as quite primitive, considering this is 2013. But that also explains why you find it, I'm assuming, natural for women to wear veils while men obviously don't have to. Is that gender inequality disguised as tradition?

reply to post by TKDRL


I don't think that's a correct analogy.
But I do believe that meeting them halfway is probably the most viable solution.

reply to post by mideast


Islamic countries can do whatever they want in THEIR own countries. Don't come to another country and expect us to bow to your beliefs.

I agree, western nations should stay the hell out of the middle east.

For the life of me I have never understood the reasoning as to why the Muslim immigrants in particular, leave an oppressive regime/culture, go to another more relaxed liberal country and then immediately start the same oppression and middle aged cultural values all over again! Makes no sense to me whatsoever. You'd think they would be so glad to be out of that situation why create it in their new country?

I mentioned this to a Sikh friend of mine weeks ago and he said for a Muslim, leaving an Islamic country was tantamount to blasphemy so he personally believed that some if not all were "told" or "instructed" to leave to spread Islam as far as possible, in order to realise their dream of an Islamic world. Basically, he thought Muslim immigrants were infilrators and under orders from their Iman which is why these immigrants will not EVER integrate.

Dunno but suppose its possible with some religious zealots, spreading the ideal throughout the world like christianity did, isn't so ludicrous. Problem is they have some serious public relations issues and need a new pr man big time !!

When we go to a foreign country we have to obey their laws, pity those that come to our lands do not reciprocate the action.
Don't like the laws here please feel free to go somewhere where you do like the laws.
Whilst I understand peoples freedom of expression don't go around flaunting your rights at every given opportunity please.

Originally posted by Helious
I am highly conflicted on this story. On one side, I don't see where it is any of the governments business to pass and enforce such a law on what a person can and can not wear when it is non offensive or hurtful to others and I can understand resistance and civil disobedience from those who also see it as patently asinine. Not sure about choking somebody over it though.

Wearing a veil, is a "conceilment" of identity. And, that is usually identified with masked criminals, who do not want their identity to be known. The nature of it, is "to be not seen".

The sub-human treatment factor, is also a concern.

But all in all, this is a problem, that Europe has caused for itself ... and one, that is going to cause bloodbath in the future.

Put it this way, if some guy walked around in a major city in the US ... wearing ninja cloathes, conceiling his entire face and body. Try it, and tell me the cops wouldn't stop you for identity check ...

:-)

Has anyone read into this a bit deeper?

From the OP's source:

The anti-Islamophobia collective said in a statement that it was contacted by the veiled woman ticketed in Trappes on Thursday, and that she said the police officer yanked her by the veil and pushed her mother.

Police argue they are doing their jobs and that veiled women are breaking a well-known law.

If this is true, the husband may have been "morally" justified in trying to protect his wife and the community became outraged at the actions of the police.

If you read into a bit more, the police apparently have a reputation for being discriminatory against the French Muslim population....all because of stupid laws that ban veils.

Also, why do people keep saying Islam and it's faithful are violent? If you were in a situation in which your people and cultural traditions were victims of discrimination and violence by the police, wouldn't your community rise up as well?

There is a lot more context to situations like these that have to be looked in to before we just jump to rash, stereotypical conclusions.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by xavi1000

 

Why do European bend over backwards to appease Muslims, even trying their hardest to get Arabs to immigrate to their country. What benefit is that to their societies?

I frequently read on here, and sometimes in the British press, that the UK (and France) 'bend over backwards' to appease our new Muslim populations. I am yet to ever see any actual evidence of this, and certainly not with my own eyes.

I live in a city with a huge Muslim population, and lived in a largely Muslim area for seven years. Despite this, I was never asked or has it inferred to change my Western behaviour.

The only real complaint I can think of is that Muslims don't seem to understand the principle of queuing - one of the indiginous Brit's greatest skills!