Swiss woman gang-rape: 6 accused awarded life imprisonment

Originally posted by poet1b

Hindu's don't have these kinds of sexual hangups.

Codswallop!

I assume that you are implying that the perpetrators are Muslim males. If so, provide evidence of such, have some courage in your convictions if that is what you want to say. Tish tosh and poppy cock. Seriously? Rapes happen every single day, and a very small minority of those are committed by gangs, and of that minority, a percentage are Muslim. Get real. Rape is a problem in every demographic.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
both her and her assailants should have been killed.

Right on!

Jesus is always right!

All of them! Killed and then to the eternal abyss! The victim should know better than to get assailed!

reply to post by KilgoreTrout



frontpagemag.com...

One distinctive aspect of Islamic theology is its prescription of rape as a punishment – a punishment usually imposed upon some innocent female to avenge a crime committed by a male relative. In another 2011 piece, Ejaz cited a Pakistani village court’s recent decision in the case of a young man who’d been “seen with a young girl from a tribe superior to his”: it ordered several of the girl’s male relatives to gang-rape the guilty party’s sister, Mukhataran – who afterwards (as if the gang-bang itself weren’t enough) “was paraded nude” through the village. Sharia justice of this sort is commonplace in the Muslim world; the only thing special in this instance was that Mukhataran complained to the authorities and argued her case all the way up to the Pakistani Supreme Court – which, in the end, freed five of the six defendants, even as a chorus of prominent media figures and government leaders expressed sympathy for the rapists and dragged Mukhataran’s name through the mud.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

Very well said. While castration may diminish sex drive, it does not prevent erections, and as you say, rape is not about sex drive, it is about power.

Rapists rape for several reasons, physical satisfaction being the least of those reasons. It's definitely about power and compulsion...it's about sexual sadism for those whom enjoy causing others pain and having complete control over another human being, for some it's about using rape as a release for frustration in the rapist's life, etc etc etc. It all comes down to some form of sexual psychopathy and every form of it is related to power and control, whether it's over the offender's victim(s) or the offender himself/herself.

Every human has a sexual nature...trying to turn a gay person straight or vice versa is not possible and rapists' sexuality is dangerous by definition and cannot be stopped or changed through threat of castration (physical or chemical), threat of harsh punishment (life in prison, "eye for an eye", or death penalty), or any other method. Punishment is not a deterrent because these individuals will always give into their urges because they'll justify their actions by believing they can get away with it, castration in any form will not deter them because they will find any way to satisfy their urges (rape by object is one example of method of rape not requiring present or fully functioning genitalia), recidivism is inevitable if they are given the opportunity and it's a tragic fact that these crimes will never be fully eradicated. The only way to cut down on these crimes is personal vigilance and community vigilance, and a hard line stance on offenders for life in prison to eliminate their opportunity for recidivism.

Mandatory life sentences for rapists, molesters, and sexually violent criminals is the only option that seems reasonable to me. Most murderers aren't serial killers or spree killers or even have a compulsion to kill, they're generally one time offenders that took a life/lives in scenarios such as crimes of passion, relationship specific crimes, lesser crimes that escalate into murder, etc etc etc. We imprison people for life as a punishment for taking a life and in the name of protecting us from the "danger(s) to the community" even though the statistics on recidivism of released murderers (specifically regarding reoffending by murder/manslaughter and excluding other lesser offenses such as parole/probation violation) is low. In contrast, rapists, molesters, and sexually violent criminals act out through their crimes a profound and unchangeable part of who they are on a basic level which cannot be rehabilitated or changed. Their crimes are never accidental in any way and they are as fully to blame as any serial or spree killer or perpetrator of a premeditated murder. They are the definition of danger to society and as I've stated, their recidivism rate is so high that it's essentially inevitable if they're given any opportunity to do so. If we incarcerate people for life who have committed murder whose projected recidivism rates are nonexistent, why aren't we incarcerating people for life who have committed violent and/or pervasive crimes of a sexual nature whose projected recidivism is essentially guaranteed? The only logical answer to the problem of these crimes and their perpetrators is life imprisonment with no chance for parole.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Given China's human rights record in the past, not the best example, and still my previous point remains, mistakes can and have been made. Innocent people have been unjustly imprisoned and executed, taking that into consideration, and tend to consider what would happen if that were me, or mine, I'd want all the due process in the world. Wouldn't you?

I didn't say no due process.
I specifically stated plenty of time for due process.

As far as China goes, their efficiency in ending a life has no reflection on the decision to do so.

We waste too much time and money on behalf of violent criminals, rapists and murderers. They need to take a back seat instead of being political capital.

Better to focus on getting the ones who can salvage their lives back out into the world.

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
both her and her assailants should have been killed.

Right on!

Jesus is always right!

All of them! Killed and then to the eternal abyss! The victim should know better than to get assailed!

I do not know whether Jesus is always right, I do know though, as I pointed out in my previous post, that there are numerous contradictions in the reputed sayings of Jesus depending on who's version you read. If you look at the Torah, the Masoretic text, rather than the Septuagint, it does differentiate between consensual and coerced sexual acts, so either way, you are incorrect in this matter. One way or another, if only the law of the Ten Commandments were followed, by all, no extrapolations would be necessary, which is what I consider all subsequent detailings of 'law' to be, and even then, I consider only one or two of those to be entirely necessary, on the personal level, in order to render all other laws moot.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

frontpagemag.com...

One distinctive aspect of Islamic theology is its prescription of rape as a punishment – a punishment usually imposed upon some innocent female to avenge a crime committed by a male relative. In another 2011 piece, Ejaz cited a Pakistani village court’s recent decision in the case of a young man who’d been “seen with a young girl from a tribe superior to his”: it ordered several of the girl’s male relatives to gang-rape the guilty party’s sister, Mukhataran – who afterwards (as if the gang-bang itself weren’t enough) “was paraded nude” through the village. Sharia justice of this sort is commonplace in the Muslim world; the only thing special in this instance was that Mukhataran complained to the authorities and argued her case all the way up to the Pakistani Supreme Court – which, in the end, freed five of the six defendants, even as a chorus of prominent media figures and government leaders expressed sympathy for the rapists and dragged Mukhataran’s name through the mud.

How does that apply to this case? I cannot see anywhere in that that the convicted men in this case were Muslim.

Originally posted by badgerprints
I didn't say no due process.
I specifically stated plenty of time for due process.

It is the due process that takes time and money as the sums I linked to on the previous page affirm. Justice costs money, from paying for the police on the streets and scientific evidence processing, to keeping the prisoners once convicted in a environment that prevents them from doing further harm, which should include their doing harm to each other, but seldom does. To exacerbate that, white collar crime, and organised crime, has the power to corrupt justice, financially, as well as in other ways. Police officers and judiciary have to be paid significantly large enough salaries, otherwise they are vulnerable to corruption and bribery. I did not think that you were advocating a lack of due process, merely reiterating the reasons for it in relation to the costs involved.

Originally posted by badgerprints
As far as China goes, their efficiency in ending a life has no reflection on the decision to do so.

Yes, that is why I said that it was a poor example.

Originally posted by badgerprints
We waste too much time and money on behalf of violent criminals, rapists and murderers. They need to take a back seat instead of being political capital.

Better to focus on getting the ones who can salvage their lives back out into the world.

Agreed, in part, we should do far more, and invest greater sums in preventing crime. Such as providing equal access to education and opportunity, protecting children from abuse and exploitation, ensuring that policing and justice are delivered even handedly, eliminating poverty. We spend far, far too much money on the short term goal of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. In all aspects of life, we treat the symptoms of the disease instead of attacking the disease itself.

reply to post by jcutler12888


All excellent points and not a single thing that I disagree with there. Good post

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
reply to post by jcutler12888

 

All excellent points and not a single thing that I disagree with there. Good post

Thank you!

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


It proves that there are large numbers of Muslims who see rape as something men have a right to do to women, as was my original point.

Because of the attitude Muslims have on rape, it is most likely they are the ones committing these gang rapes, and the use of political correctness to hide these perpetrators is extremely wrong.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

It proves that there are large numbers of Muslims who see rape as something men have a right to do to women, as was my original point.

Because of the attitude Muslims have on rape, it is most likely they are the ones committing these gang rapes, and the use of political correctness to hide these perpetrators is extremely wrong.

No it shows that some Muslims are rapists, and it does not in anyway apply to this case. There is absolutely no information to suggest that these six men are Muslims. To promote the idea that only Muslims commit gang rape is not only deluded but it detracts from what is a very serious problem in India, and has been for numerous years, and if you study the information available with regard to rape in India you will perhaps be able to understand, instead of just propagating a hate filled myth aimed at distracting from that very real problem. Let's face it, if the convicted men were Muslim, this case would have got far more publicity than it actually has, because people like you want to believe that.

In recent years, women, girls, even infants have been raped by Hindu men, who according to you don't 'have those sexual hang ups'. Many of those rapes have been carried out by law enforcement, military and paramilitary officers, numerous rapes have been carried out by husbands and other male relatives, a proportion, reflective of population percentages, much as in the case in Europe, have been carried out by Muslims. India is a patriarchal and a caste society, and as such, women do not have much value, especially once you get out of the city, where the majority of those women belong to lower casts. Sex trafficking is a huge problem, as is female infanticide. Your delusional belief that Hindus don't do this kind of thing is based on sheer ignorance of the magnitude of the situation. Men everywhere, of every colour and creed, and religious persuasion commit rape, especially if they are able to get away with doing so. And, up until this case, and the Delhi Bus rape, where the rapists were all Hindu, they have been able to get away with it. Hopefully though, things are changing.

Your ignorance is alarming and downright lazy. Yes, Muslim men rape, but ignoring evidence that other men, proportionate to race, nationality etc, also rape, shows your racism, and has absolutely nothing to do with my political correctness.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


What I proved is that Islamic cultures actually promotes rape.

The people in the village actually demanded that this mans innocent sister should be raped because he was seen with a woman he was not supposed to talk to.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

It proves that there are large numbers of Muslims who see rape as something men have a right to do to women, as was my original point.

Because of the attitude Muslims have on rape, it is most likely they are the ones committing these gang rapes, and the use of political correctness to hide these perpetrators is extremely wrong.

umm well what about the catholics and their raping of children and pedophiles in the church ... it's not just a muslim problem .. what happened to the priests who raped children what punishment did they receive. yet still the sheep still follow and hand our their earnings in support or the church in quiet support.

so what are you getting at besides bashing muslims .?

ETA hell the majority of western police really even don't care much about women and kids raped here and hardly pursuit anything on the topic.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

What I proved is that Islamic cultures actually promotes rape.

The people in the village actually demanded that this mans innocent sister should be raped because he was seen with a woman he was not supposed to talk to.

That may be the case, but in India, that is not the problem. I am not for one minute ignoring the fact that in some countries Muslim women suffer incredible inequity and terrible sexual crimes. Ignorance is rife in many Islamic countries, and women and girls are the primary targets of that ignorance. Afghanistan, for example, is the most dangerous place in the world to be female, for the very reasons that you point out. However, in India, the problem is different, and no less serious. To imply otherwise, is to detract from the crimes committed by Hindu men against Hindu women and girls, as well as this Swiss woman. Further to imply that all gang rapes are committed by Muslim gangs is downright irresponsible, and again, it detracts from a much wider problem, that of the increase in rapes in general.

The vast majority of rapes, globally, occur in the victims own home, and are committed by someone they know, in India the situation is very different. Most happen in the open, in public places. It is not safe for women in India to go about their daily business, to be educated or to work, because of the threat of rape. India is responding to the problem, but much of that is due to the women themselves rallying and calling for the situation to be addressed, because they want freedom, and that is being denied them because of the threat of rape. While I appreciate the information you present, I do not appreciate why you feel it applies here, to this case. There are plenty of threads on ATS that deal with rapes that occur in Islamic countries, FlyersFan posted one about a Norwegian Woman who was raped in Dubai earlier today for example, but the sexual inequality that exists in some countries due to Islam is not relevent to this case in India other than as confirmation that some men, in every demographic, in every nation, no matter the religion of that nation, feel so inadequate and disempowered that they express that through sexual violence towards others, predominantly women. This is by no means an isolated problem.

How the hell did a thread about a swiss woman getting gang raped and her attackers getting life imprisoned for it turn in to :

Jesus and Islam ????

I see a lot of trolling to be honest:

But my contempt here goes to Rapists who deserve a harsher sentence than they got.

Originally posted by poet1b

Most likely this gang rape problem in India is advanced and perpetrated by a wide spread group that doesn't value women, looks down upon women, and thinks gang rape of a woman is gods work.

Hindu's don't have these kinds of sexual hangups.

Most likely this is the actions of the same groups of people doing these things in Europe and the rest of the world.

this has nothing to do with religion.

Your comment just shows how narrow minded and ill informed people like yourself operate on this site.

remember the 23 year old girl that was raped on a bus last December ?

www.thehindu.com...

She was raped by a gang of Hindu men.

Rapes in India are a cultural "phenomenon", they are commmited both by Muslims and Hindus

Stop poisoning every thread with your hate and propaganda.

reply to post by ArtooDetoo


Don't bother reading thread contents eh?

The Religious garbage started way back here on the first page

reply to post by freedomSlave


I don't care for Catholicism either. All these religions with major hang ups about sex also turn out to create cultures were rape and abuse of women is prevalent.

Islam just happens to be the worst.

reply to post by ArtooDetoo


Your link states nothing about Hindus being the perps.

Gotta laugh at posters who can't even read the links they post, and then comment on the ignorance and bias of others.

Thanks for confirming to me that I am on the right side of this discussion.