Religion & Vanity

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by dominicus
Yes, utilize Vanity to do whatever it takes at whatever cost to find out what the Absolute Truth is, to find out who you really are prior to the "program" that was forced upon you......when you find the original you, then vanity, "the program", and all illusion falls away, freeing you into something there are just no words for, but is the Truth

Close to what is but you cannot be sure you do not have a bit of previous "program" left.

There are states where there is no programming arising ..it is a rare occurence, but that is hardly enough people go within and reach the source of thought.....but it is there....a state prior to, during, and after all thought. A sort of first principal....

To be the truth it has to be very unspecific so it can encompass all that you do not specifically know and have not quantified yet.

Who says it has to be unspecific? It already does encompass all things and is everywhere, like the first principal to reality .....all of reality merely having its existence in the Absolute Infinite...

To know the truth is to know all that is and every view of what is.

There is such a place and there is access to it ...go within......find where thought emerges from, and hides into. Find out where the source of Consciousness is in you .....then you'll find exactly what you speak of

I am limited in my knowledge and do not even know all about the body I occupy.

Doesn't matter......it could take a whole lifetime to get to know all the depths of the body. I have just recently started to understand that I can communicate with each one of my organs, and each one is in a way, consciously animated, alive, and programmed to do it's task..... Some organs, like the heart, work tirelessly of their own accord. Yet if you spent time with the heart, with your awareness there, you can take control over it and slow it down or sped it up according to your own will........

But that's neither here nor there......it is more fruitful to find the source of Awareness, or of thought ...that will reveal the direct experience of exactly what you discuss.

Unfortunately, the majority are tuned outward, and what I speak of, requires a decent amount of time going inward.......for the ego, it's boring ........but once you get your first glimpse, ego is hooked

Mirror, mirror on the wall tell me who is more vane.
Those who believe in religions or those who do not.

Ok so my mirror did not give me an answer.

Can you LM?????

To be clear such evidence will allow Trillions of dollars to be taxed at a standard rate in every country throughout the world.

With evidence you could actually make the world economy much better.

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Astrocyte

As for prayer as praise, this is the type of prayer I feel compelled to engage in. I feel such tremendous love and awe that I cannot hold in the enormous feeling of gratitude I have: for living, for existing, for enjoying, for learning, for the mysteries and wonders and simplicities that fill up my day to day life.

So when you pray you praise something? Do you wish this something notices your praise?

I'm curious as to what your ritual is like, or how you pray. Also, I would like to know how you've come to understand how your particular ritual and praise is in any way received by that which you praise. I'm sure you've thought about it.

reply to post by Bluesma


Interesting. I've never researched quiteism.

Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
-Wittgenstein

I think when it comes to metaphysical or ontological explanations for things the best course of action would be not talk about them at all. Philo said God was ineffable, and I would have to agree with him. There can be no words for that type of idea to be properly circumscribed.

So I tend to look at religious practice in terms of physical and psychological tools, rather than spiritual transcendance. I think it may have some real utlility in some cases.

I am in agreement here. Religion cannot be removed because people need it. They need prayer, the structure, and the habits which actually have an obvious applicable use. I think it would be a danger if such an idea as the removal of religion, as happened in revolutionary Mexico and Albania with disastrous results, was actually proposed. I would fight that idea tooth and nail.

reply to post by jacygirl

Hi again LesMisanthrope,
Thank you for taking the time to go through my response. I would like to explain my thoughts.

Why did I liken church attendance to a concert? To discuss motive, I suppose. I believe that SOME people go to church because the entire experience makes them feel good. For them, vanity is not the issue.
It could be a church setting, a Coldplay concert, a group meditation...or a flash mob (lol). For some, the shared experience feels like a connection to others. It's not about what they're wearing, or who sees them there. It's personal...and makes them feel good inside.

Why do I politely ask for strength and ease of suffering? Do I think an individual is listening, or caring what I'm wearing...or performing a ritual? Well....I am polite out of respect to 'whoever' may possibly be able to pick up on my thoughts. What I'm wearing is never an issue, I often 'pray' in my pajamas...and there is no ritual, just intent.

I don't believe I am speaking to an individual. When I pray, I am basically speaking to the Universe. I don't know what/who is 'out there'. I don't know if anyone at all receives my message...but there is always that possibility.
I don't consider these to be acts of vanity, because there really is no end result. No closure.
I never know if I'm being heard, or helping anyone in any way. It is my small contribution of positive loving intent.
jacygirl

I like that idea. Although, you must know I would call your method somewhat naive, but perhaps maybe it is I who is naive to the strength and positivity you generate in your prayer. It's actually quite comforting to know that there are those who pray for the same reason you do.

Thanks for sharing.

You know LM there is a saying on the internet...

Opinions are like A******* everyone has one.

If it makes you feel better once I read the Op it gave me a chuckle.

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by jacygirl
I have questions...Do thousands of people gather at a music concert to be seen?
Or do they attend to savour the experience...personally? Perhaps both?
Is the basis for their attendance vanity? I would say no.

Do people attend church to be seen? Or do they attend because they get something more personal out of the experience? Maybe both reasons are true, but the motivation is unique to each individual.

I would say no.

At a concert, all attention is on the performer; no one is doing anything to 'steal the spotlight' for themselves.

So praying loud, speakng n tongues, doing the holy dance' are vey different from this type of experience.

Even in childhood, I had always felt like the 'religious performances' were just that...

OP, S & F

This is actually the way I have felt about 'religous performances' ever since my childhood. And in a way, they are mostly rehearsed; they are done out of tradtion only and people immitate what they have watched others do.

For example, I am a black woman who is surrounded by Southern Baptists...let's say I have a baby but chose to raise it in Asia, where Buddah is worshipped.

That black baby, even though he was born in the American South, going to now take on the rituals of Asian religions.

This very example is also why I dismissed the whole, "Who's God is better" argument that the different cultures and religions have.

The 'better' or 'true' god is always going to be the one in which you are raised with.

reply to post by ButterCookie

The 'better' or 'true' god is always going to be the one in which you are raised with.

It is no wonder that statues and paintings of Gods always resemble the people of the culture who worships them.

Thank you for sharing.

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Alas, the perfect audience! They wish to have the chance to appear spiritual in front of others, to appear spiritual to themselves—pure vain spirituality

You know this reminds me of faith healers and the people who follow them.

I once recall Oral Roberts saying that God needed to collect 7 million dollars or God was going to bring him back home.

Now God is an extortionist. He's the neighborhood bully who threatens to beat you up for your lunch money.

Can't help but think that if there is a devil faith healers and people who teach others that God is engages in financial extortion that they have already signed up with the devil.

I remember going to a church (back when I was religious) and the 1st lady (Pastor's wife) got on the stage ( and they call it a 'stage' for a reason) and went into a holy trance and spoke in tongues.

When she was able to speak English again (yea right), she said that God had told her that the magic aka 'holy' number was 200..menaing that anyone who brought 200 of anything ($$$) would be bountifully blessed..

And you should have seen the parishners run to the stage with their checkbooks and wallets...