Obama: Trayvon 'could have been me'

Originally posted by Kali74
I know what he said to the 911 operator. I know that he had a history of being overzealous. I believe George Zimmerman put himself in a situation that he did not need to and was advised not to. As an unofficial neighborhood watchman, did he not know that teenage males lived in the community? Was he unaware how teenage boys dress? I doubt it.

I didn't know you needed to be ordained to be a neighborhood watchman; maybe we should start requiring some type of certification.

Let us clear some things up though: Zimmerman's story is that he was advised to return to his vehicle in which he did according to sworn testimony (I know, you don't believe him and I cannot convince you otherwise; your mind is made -- Zimmerman apparently woke up that day looking to kill a black kid in your mind).

Here are some questions for you though: Could it be a "wrong place, wrong time" situation? Maybe Zimmerman was aware that teenage males lived in the community but this one was acting suspiciously; he did after all, call the police (kinda goes against the whole "he set out to kill that night" and why the 2nd degree charge was a farce don't you think?) Maybe he was unaware how people dressed; do you know otherwise? I know many people who are not "hip" on the latest fashion...maybe they should be arrested just in case they might "profile"...

Get over myself?

It has nothing to do with me.

Apparently it does because you are allowing your own emotions to dictate how you perceive this case. You think because YOU fell Zimmerman is guilty, that HE should be. So yes; get over yourself.

It would be nice to have a dialogue, an honest one. Not one where one side denies reality because it makes them squirm in their seats.

Likewise, lets discuss the known evidence....bet I win....

I know you respect and admire law. I agree the jury had no choice to acquit by Florida Law. I don't believe anything was wrong with the trial. I do believe that law is flawed and not blind.

Now that our tit-for-tat is up there, here is a real question. How is it flawed? I do agree that it isn't always blind, but in reality the law itself isn't the one that isn't blind; it is the people; black, white, Mexican, rich, poor, that side of the tracks -- this side of the tracks. It is flawed because it has human interaction, we are not a perfect People.

Tell me this, is a nation that increasingly turns to private prisons motivated by justice or corporate quotas?

Not part of the discussion but I don't wholly disagree with private prisons but I also don't agree with them. Question right back though: Given your statement above, do you think Zimmerman was acquitted because he wouldn't be serving time in a 'private' prison? His chances of walking would have been slimmer if he were slated for a "private" one, rather than the County lockup?

Tell me that same system doesn't capitalize on perceptions of thugs and who fits that label. Tell me that those perceptions aren't fueled by mentality exhibited in this thread and every single thread on this forum relating to race.

Goes both ways. We are human. What is your point? I'll be the first to admit that I would much more suspect a man (regardless of color) walking aimlessly with a hoodie drapped over his head than say someone in a suit or casual clothes. Could that bite me in the rear? Sure but I bet statistically my first inclinations are more than not -- correct.

Your implication that I'm high on myself isn't going to change how I see things nor silence my reaction.

I would have thought by now you would have figured out that I never seek to silence anyone here. I will hold my view, just as you will regarding this case -- but would never say you should "shut up" or "go away" or some derivative thereof. If our debate is to be contentious, so be it, but debate we will have.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Obama, Jackson, Sharpton et al are assclowns. They have a perfect opportunity to calm people and urge restraint and peaceful dialogue yet they poured gasoline on a fire. If people die because of these protests and riots blood will be on their hands.

There's no goddamn fire to pour gasoline on. People are upset about this case, yes... but there have been no riots over it, there have been a handful of idiots smashing cop car windows but those same idiots would do such if the wind blew in a direction they didn't like. Haven't even heard much from the morons in the NBPP since the verdict. Your racist assumptions that black people are inherently more violent than any other people have you holding your breath and waiting for the violent riots that simply aren't coming.

I'm sure, POTUS will Defend Himself:



Awaiting his response!

Originally posted by Johnathanandheather

Didn't this Zimmerman get picked up for an impersonation of a police officer charger
A couple years back. It seems like from that to his over zealous watch captain bit he has some identity issues and abuse of power. I highly doubt he will stop now. Maybe a break but now he is introduced to te prison system and maybe even confident he can get away with it next time.

i'm not knocking you, just trying to clear up what seems misconceptions about just what he has been charged with
and what have only been allegations.

The three incidents took place in Orange County, Fla.
In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.

In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

In December 2006, Zimmerman was charged with speeding. The case was dismissed when the officer failed to show up in court.

the above is from,
Zimmerman accused of domestic violence, fighting with a police officer

as i have posted this time and time again, i feel i have to point out one more time.

the first charge and the second charge his lawyer address,
the first charge came about at the age of twenty yrs old, he was at a bar with a underage friend, god forbid that someone 20 yrs old hangs out with someone say 17 to 20, the cops were doing a underground drinking sting, something they do quite frequently, here in florida, and they dragged his friend out of the bar. they were in plain clothes and their badges were not showing, GZ went to help his friend because he didn't know they were cops.

the second one came from a fight he had with his ex-fiancee after she caught him on a web dating site.
ever had a fight with a girlfriend/boyfriend, were they the vindictive type. she filed he files tit for tat.

the thrid well that speaks for it's self.

everything else is just allegations and hearsay nothing has been brought to prove them. no other charges have ever been filed.

but now he is introduced to te prison system and maybe even confident he can get away with it next time.

ever been locked up, most people that have will go out of there way to avoid it. and being " confident he can get away with it next time." would not be a way to avoid it, actually it would be used against him and he would more than likely wind up in prison

Originally posted by Vasa Croe

The president delivered extensive remarks during a surprise appearance in the White House briefing room. He underscored the role race may have played in the case, saying that if a "white male teen" were involved "both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different."

Does he not understand that there were no whites involved in this at all? Trayvon is black and Zimmerman is Hispanic. The lengths the administration is going to in order to push racial tensions and distract from real news is ridiculous. Someone was shot and killed...happens EVERY day in Atlanta and numerous cities around the US.

Ironically, Obama is the man effectively pulling the trigger in .... say; just how many women and children has this creepy-azz half-wit murdered now??

How many Trayvons has Obama killed?

Originally posted by Kali74
There's no goddamn fire to pour gasoline on. People are upset about this case, yes... but there have been no riots over it, there have been a handful of idiots smashing cop car windows but those same idiots would do such if the wind blew in a direction they didn't like. Haven't even heard much from the morons in the NBPP since the verdict. Your racist assumptions that black people are inherently more violent than any other people have you holding your breath and waiting for the violent riots that simply aren't coming.

You don't count pedestrians shutting down an Interstate and terrorizing drivers to be a "fire"?

While this might not qualify as the '92 riots, these protesters are posing a serious terrorist threat to ordinary Americans. And they are being egged on by Obama & Company.

When talking about someone else, Obama always falls into the "I .. I.. I ..me.. me.. me" mind. He's a total narcissist.
This is just a smoke screen. Rabble rouse and pretend racism is still an issue, then when he finally gets called on the carpet(it must be going to happen soon) and can't worm his way out, he'll claim its all about racism. Some will believe it.

reply to post by ownbestenemy

I didn't know you needed to be ordained to be a neighborhood watchman; maybe we should start requiring some type of certification.

That's a huge from what I said. Are we going to pretend there weren't complaints against Zimmerman's methods of 'patrolling'?

(I know, you don't believe him and I cannot convince you otherwise; your mind is made -- Zimmerman apparently woke up that day looking to kill a black kid in your mind).

Ouch you're full of assumptions today.

As it happens, I don't think Zimmerman meant to kill anyone let alone set out to do so. What I think is that he's a little on the cracked side, he saw Martin and knew there had been break-ins. He made a snap judgement aka profiled Martin and began following to ensure that "these assholes, they always get away" wasn't going to happen this time and he called 911, ignored their advice not to pursue and provoked the altercation between them, got scared and drew his gun and fired. I believe he would have been found guilty of manslaughter in any state that doesn't have SYG laws, even though SYG wasn't invoked as his defense.

Apparently it does because you are allowing your own emotions to dictate how you perceive this case. You think because YOU fell Zimmerman is guilty, that HE should be. So yes; get over yourself.

As I said I think in other States he would have been found guilty of manslaughter. So I don't need to get over myself.

Likewise, lets discuss the known evidence....bet I win....

We can if you like, but that's not what this thread is about. My post was about the all too frequent assumptions made about young black males, like the assumptions Zimmerman made about Martin. "These assholes, they always get away", in Zimmerman's mind Martin was already guilty, his actions were dictated by that assumption.

How is it flawed?

Specifically SYG laws allow for way too much wiggle room for vigilantes.

Given your statement above, do you think Zimmerman was acquitted because he wouldn't be serving time in a 'private' prison?

As I said, based on Florida law the jury had no choice but to acquit. I said nothing, never have regarding the subject about false convictions. Never said that the higher rate of arrest or conviction or heavier sentences for black men were all false charges and false convictions. But studies have shown that black men are more likely to be arrested for minor offenses than any other group, black men are more likely to be found guilty than any other group for similar cases, black men are more likely to receive maximum penalties for convictions than any other group, so yes flawed.

What is your point? I'll be the first to admit that I would much more suspect a man (regardless of color) walking aimlessly with a hoodie drapped over his head than say someone in a suit or casual clothes. Could that bite me in the rear? Sure but I bet statistically my first inclinations are more than not -- correct.

If I were frightened of hoodies I would be jumping out of my skin every 5 minutes and crossing the street just as often, I also see people walking aimlessly as well as doing it myself, all the time... especially if they're on the phone.

Originally posted by jrod
reply to post by ownbestenemy V

 

You are failing to see my point. Yes the trial was about self defense. However the media and gun control advocates are using this to rally against Stand Your Ground. Both Holder and Obama said the law needs to be reviewed.

No doubt this has also been a distraction from major issues too.

But you can't waste your time catering to the ignorant. You have to set the record straight and keep the focus on the actual facts. You can't let people who are either ignorant to the truth or are purposely distorting the truth to dictate the dialogue.

reply to post by Kali74

This thread isn't about that though is it?

Sure we hear about it, and we write about it, blog about it, protest about it, get arrested over it. What's funny is that some people like to cry every time the President opens his mouth. Obama's drone wars have nothing to do with the fact that he can relate to a black kid that was murdered. His having said that doesn't make us clap and cheer and forget about the NDAA, NSA or FISA, drones... we haven't forgotten anything.

Everything needed to take this President down is right there, but certain other people can't seem to get the politicians they voted for to do anything about those issues so instead they opt for selective/manufactured outrage/scandals and hop and down, froth at the mouth anytime a pundit, elected official and most especially the President talks about racial issues. Says a lot about them, IMO.

I agree that the two incidents have nothing to do with one another, but I also understand that the NDAA and drone strikes are on a level of importance that far surpasses his poor wee wittle childhood, and the death of one young black man.

Trayvon Martin matters to the president because its a good distraction for folks to grab onto. That way, a lot of us activists feel like we're making a difference while protesting for Martin, while Obama is free to pass whatever he wants behind the scenes in the meantime.

You can't dismiss it as Oh, but this thread's not about that, now is it? Its a relating factor, and it helps one to understand the government's true objectives. So, alternatively, yes. This thread is about that.

You didn't know about the NDAA when you first replied to this thread, did you?

I'm the one who dug that up. I'm multi-tasking.

reply to post by Kali74

Your racist assumptions that black people are inherently more violent than any other people have you holding your breath and waiting for the violent riots that simply aren't coming.

You need to apologize, I never said anything about black people. And never implied anything to suggest I said they are more "violent" than other groups of people. And I'm certainly not holding my breath waiting or hoping for any riots. My desire is to move on from this, the verdict is a week old now, and go back to dealing with the big problems this nation currently faces.

Originally posted by juspassinthru

Originally posted by Kali74
There's no goddamn fire to pour gasoline on. People are upset about this case, yes... but there have been no riots over it, there have been a handful of idiots smashing cop car windows but those same idiots would do such if the wind blew in a direction they didn't like. Haven't even heard much from the morons in the NBPP since the verdict. Your racist assumptions that black people are inherently more violent than any other people have you holding your breath and waiting for the violent riots that simply aren't coming.

You don't count pedestrians shutting down an Interstate and terrorizing drivers to be a "fire"?

While this might not qualify as the '92 riots, these protesters are posing a serious terrorist threat to ordinary Americans. And they are being egged on by Obama & Company.

No I don't count that to be a fire, it's a common type of protest... it's been done thousands of times.

Serious terrorist threat?

lol. God help you if you ever feel motivated to redress your grievances with other like minded people.

No one is being egged on by anyone, that may be a difficult concept for the sheep mentality you exhibited, to grasp. Protest about this case is what drew the media and pols, not the otherway around.

Originally posted by Kali74

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Obama, Jackson, Sharpton et al are assclowns. They have a perfect opportunity to calm people and urge restraint and peaceful dialogue yet they poured gasoline on a fire. If people die because of these protests and riots blood will be on their hands.

There's no goddamn fire to pour gasoline on. People are upset about this case, yes... but there have been no riots over it, there have been a handful of idiots smashing cop car windows but those same idiots would do such if the wind blew in a direction they didn't like. Haven't even heard much from the morons in the NBPP since the verdict. Your racist assumptions that black people are inherently more violent than any other people have you holding your breath and waiting for the violent riots that simply aren't coming.

So... smashing cars, overturning dumpsters, and setting fires isn't rioting?

What is rioting, then?

You must have missed what happened in Oakland .....

Speaking as someone who went to an all-black middle school as a very WHITE kid, not that I'm basing this statement on race particularly, it IS a fair argument that the black culture incidentally absorbs quite a lot of violent tendencies from their media, television, music, etc... speaking from experience here, as someone who's been on the crummy end of the stick.

Martin activists have been flooding the streets in my area...

They're everywhere.

Like I said before, If I were to ask these protesters if they knew what the NDAA was, I guarantee the standard answer would be "no comment."

Obama:

Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago...

Never in a month of Sundays should Obama equate himself to a similar life experience as that of Martin, or any other African-American youths of Martin's ilk and status.

It would seem to me that with this statement, Obama is cynically, and quite clumsily, seeking to court African-American opinion on him himself as President. Perhaps, as a white English guy, I am being cynical, when I suggest that Obama is looking at his ratings, and like a typical politician is none-too-sublimely using the case to further his own aggrandisement in the multi-coloured public's mind?

For a country that looks itself in a mirror and claims itself to be none-too-racist (as per another thread), there seems to be a rather large and convoluted 'hue and cry' over a case whose tragedy was not about race, yet is being debated as if it was. An Hispanic shot and killed a young African-American as they scuffled and fought each other, and yet, very little is said regarding Zimmerman's ethnic origin, but that the loudest shout is with regard to Martin's ethnicity. Could you imagine if Zimmerman was of white ethnicity? To be honest, it doesn't bear thinking about.

America is a vast multi-ethnic society, and one would expect race issues to always be at the fore. Ethnicity is a 'fault line' along which tremors of race will always occur, when you factor in each ethnic culture, the tremors become more substantial. Throughout all multi-cultural societies there is integration and non-integration occurring. Multi-cultural societies do offer a positive opportunity of breaking down ethnic divides, but not without severe abrasions, and certainly not without allowing compromise to be a guiding factor. Being a 'racist' pertains to being non-compromising with your own ethnic background, and you use that stance of 'no compromise' as a wall of self-applied apartheid, and is a very stagnating way to live.

To deny yourself the enriching experience of multi-culture, is to make your spirit impoverished and disenfranchised to global humanity.

Originally posted by Dutchowl
When talking about someone else, Obama always falls into the "I .. I.. I ..me.. me.. me" mind. He's a total narcissist.
This is just a smoke screen. Rabble rouse and pretend racism is still an issue, then when he finally gets called on the carpet(it must be going to happen soon) and can't worm his way out, he'll claim its all about racism. Some will believe it.

Because he knows that half the country still worships him.

If he throws himself into it, the emotional blackmail goes even deeper, and people start losing their ability to think logically... fluffy words like Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago do nothing but make his followers grovel in emotion.

Psychological attack, emotional blackmail, etc...

Obama's comments about people locking car doors when he walked by isn't sitting well with me.

I hate to tell him this but if it happened in Chicago, it's pretty much the norm.

I grew up south of Chicago in Gary, IN. When I got in the car I locked my doors. A man of any color walking by might think it was because of him/take offense but if he was anything like my ex-military Latino father he wouldn't care. My dad would think "smart girl" because it's simply the right thing to do in Gary, Chicago etc.

If I told my dad I was going to be more PC when locking my car doors, he'd say "I don't care if the president of the United States was walking by, you lock your damn doors."

I wonder what POTUS is teaching his daughters about personal safety? Probably doesn't even come up. They've got secret service they don't have to worry about offending anyone, agents will do that for them.

In Gary criminals came in all colors, it was hard to trust anyone. It's more about gender than skin color for me so I guess that makes me a man hater.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

I agree that the two incidents have nothing to do with one another, but I also understand that the NDAA and drone strikes are on a level of importance that far surpasses his poor wee wittle childhood, and the death of one young black man.

No one but the frothers are talking about little boy Obama. 35 years ago Obama would have been 17, the same age as Martin and by that age, yes Obama was fully aware how some people reacted to his skin color. And that matters because it's the same as today.

Trayvon Martin matters to the president because its a good distraction for folks to grab onto. That way, a lot of us activists feel like we're making a difference while protesting for Martin, while Obama is free to pass whatever he wants behind the scenes in the meantime.

A lot of activists protest more than one thing. Trayvon Martin matters period. Not much that Obama does get's past anyone.

You can't dismiss it as Oh, but this thread's not about that, now is it? Its a relating factor, and it helps one to understand the government's true objectives. So, alternatively, yes. This thread is about that.

I'm not dismissing those topics in the least, but the OP does because Obama said he can relate to a black teenager, stop everything Obama is race baiting again!

You didn't know about the NDAA when you first replied to this thread, did you?

I'm the one who dug that up. I'm multi-tasking.

You really should look up another members post and thread history before making such a damning accusation.

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Eight threads on the topic, and I'm pretty sure I've posted on every single other thread about the NDAA.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

You must have missed what happened in Oakland .....

Nope. Already addressed Oakland. Oakland has some awesome activists, they also have a handful of morons that "will riot if the wind blows in a direction they don't like".

Personally, I think he's "playing" the black community. I refuse to believe that someone who could order a drone strike in a populated area and kill more innocent people than bad guys, would give one flying fart about a kid that got shot in a street fight.

No, he has an ulterior motive. Insight a race war so that the U.N. can come in and establish order. That's why they've been stockpiling weapons and ammo, and that's why the U.N. troops are already here.

Dear Ruler: He does this to take away from the things at hand...... distraction!

This guy is a total tool .