Would an Atheist Pray If..

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

Can you say for a fact that it wasn't God who answered my prayer? No, you can't. As for the milk example, all I can say is "God works in mysterious ways"

You have no reason to believe it was a deity though. You have no reason to believe any conscious entity heard your prayer and decided to favor you out of millions of believers.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Come on bro, we can go back and forth like this all day. You have no reason to believe that it wasn't some kind of deity do you? Geez, if you wouldn't pray in a such a situation then just say you wouldn't and keep moving like a good atheist should. There is nothing you can say that would prove to me that my prayers weren't answered by God. And there is nothing I can say to you that would prove that they were answered by God. So leave it at that.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

You have no reason to believe that it wasn't some kind of deity do you?

I do, actually. My reasoning goes like this: if it happened, it's because there was a natural process by which that outcome could possibly occur. Otherwise, it would an unnatural event. As such, there was at least some chance of it happening without the intervention of some divine power. And if that chance existed, how do you know that chance didn't prevail?

In short, you choose to believe it was a deity that answered your prayers because believing that you gambled with your hope and the gamble paid off just isn't quite as inspiring.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
reply to post by windword

 

What does that have to do with this thread?

Don't deflect!

You said:

Man is the one keeping people in misery, not God. If man weren't so selfish and greedy the world wouldn't be in such bad shape. You can't blame God for the choices man makes no more than you can say "devil made me do it". In the end they will get what they deserve.

I replied

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Does a child deserve to die from cancer or any other ill?

reply to post by windword


Well how did they get this cancer or whatever ill your talking about? I thought cancer was genetic or is that a myth to? No one deserves to die (well some maybe) but it's apart of life. Some die early some die late.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


And how do you know that the chance which came into play was not put there by some kind of divine power. I believe God opens doors which can make things like this possible.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

And how do you know that the chance which came into play was not put there by some kind of divine power. I believe God opens doors which can make things like this possible.

Because I have no reason to suspect such a thing took place. Just because something is a possibility, does not instantly make it probability. And it most certainly doesn't bring it even close to an actuality. Evidence determines actuality. Evidence determines whether or not something actually did happen and this is how we know.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


But you can't provide evidence that it didn't happen through power of a divine being now can you? I guess since you didn't see with your own eyes then it's not possible. If that's the case, then everything you have learned about history which happened before you were born you may as well throw it out the window.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

But you can't provide evidence that it didn't happen through power of a divine being now can you? I guess since you didn't see with your own eyes then it's not possible. If that's the case, then everything you have learned about history which happened before you were born you may as well throw it out the window.

What reasoning do you have for believing that a divine entity answered your prayers? Why was it a divine entity and not just random chance?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


My reasoning is simple. "Ask and you shall receive" I asked, and therefore received. Maybe Jesus was telling the truth after all. I don't care if you believe it or not, you can't prove otherwise.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

My reasoning is simple. "Ask and you shall receive" I asked, and therefore received. Maybe Jesus was telling the truth after all. I don't care if you believe it or not, you can't prove otherwise.

And you have no objective or independent reason to believe as you do, other than you want to.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


And you have no reason to deny other than the fact that you want to. So what does that tell you?

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
reply to post by windword

 

Well how did they get this cancer or whatever ill your talking about? I thought cancer was genetic or is that a myth to? No one deserves to die (well some maybe) but it's apart of life. Some die early some die late.

Then, what good is prayer in the example that you put forth in your OP?

reply to post by windword


Be more specific.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

And you have no reason to deny other than the fact that you want to. So what does that tell you?

I have to have a reason to believe one thing or another. I don't have a reason to believe a divine entity is influencing my life in any way other than through people who choose to act as a result of their belief in that entity. And I prefer "I don't know" over "it was God" because "I don't know" is a much more honest answer than persisting on ascribing significance to an event that you feel deserves it.

Inspiration is not a good reason to make any kind of assumption.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


But your inspired by not knowing. It's the crown of all atheist. "I don't know" and their right, they don't. Yet magically they know believers are wrong. Yeah, it's a silly assumption.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
reply to post by windword

 

Be more specific.

From your OP:

Your child has just been in a major accident which has placed them in critical condition and on life support.

Switch the word "accident" with illness.

You said:

Man is the one keeping people in misery, not God. If man weren't so selfish and greedy the world wouldn't be in such bad shape. You can't blame God for the choices man makes no more than you can say "devil made me do it". In the end they will get what they deserve.

Then you said:

Well how did they get this cancer or whatever ill your talking about? I thought cancer was genetic or is that a myth to? No one deserves to die (well some maybe) but it's apart of life. Some die early some die late.

So, if a child with cancer "gets what they deserve", and "some die early", it's a part of life..............What good is prayer?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

But your inspired by not knowing.

No, I'm not. I just find greater honor in admitting it. If a man cannot admit his own ignorance, how is he supposed to amend it?

It's the crown of all atheist. "I don't know" and their right, they don't.

I wouldn't say "crown". You don't wear something you're surrounded by.

Yet magically they know believers are wrong. Yeah, it's a silly assumption.

In all of this discussion, you haven't given me one solid reason on which to base your belief that a god grants your prayers. That's telling.

reply to post by windword


I like you win, but come on now, is it or is it not possible for you to answer this thread in an honest fashion?

reply to post by windword

What good is prayer?

God works through WORDS.

“He who made you without you, will not save you without you.” ~ St. Augustine

"...the divine plan truly would not be accomplished without our prayers, not because God needs our prayers but because he has willed that our prayers would be incorporated into his plan."

newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com...

St. Augustine said:

“Who created you without your cooperation, will not save you without your cooperations.” (This quote is from St. Augustine’s Sermon 169, 13 and is included on p. 247 of Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott.)

Here is another translation of the same quote: “But he who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but He does not justify you without you willing it.” (The Faith of the Early Fathers, Volume 3, p. 29, excerpt #1515, compiled by William A. Jurgens)

Here is the whole quote: “He was handed over for our offenses, and He rose again for our justification (19).” What does this mean, “for our justification”? So that He might justify us; so that He might make us just. You will be a work of God, not only because you are a man, but also because you are just. For it is better that you be just than that you be a man. If God made you a man, and you made yourself just, something you were doing would be better than what God did.

But God made you without any cooperation on your part. For you did not lend your consent so that god could make you. How could you have consented, when you did not exist? But he who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but He does not justify you without you willing it.” (St. Augustine’s Sermon 169, 13 as listed on p. 29 of The Faith of the Early Fathers) Source