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Zimmerman juror calls for change in self-defence laws

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posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by snarky412
 

regardless the charge, the prosecution could not and would not meet the burden of proof.
as for 'involuntary manslaughter', do tell, which part of Zs actions reflect an accidental or unintended fatality ??




posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by snarky412
 

regardless the charge, the prosecution could not and would not meet the burden of proof.
as for 'involuntary manslaughter', do tell, which part of Zs actions reflect an accidental or unintended fatality ??


Me personally, I watched the trial from the beginning and I agree with the verdict.

Self defense all the way.
The only one I saw that was aggressive and used a racial slur was TM.

I was merely repeating what some of the quarterback lawyers on TV were claiming for those that didn't agree with the verdict.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by snarky412
 

likewise, from the autopsy report onwards, i foresaw either aquittal or hung jury.
i am glad the result was an aquittal.

i just asked because your post appeared to favor the involuntary charge as potentially provable and i'm curious why.

had his shot exited TM and killed a bystander, i'd totally agree.
just wondering why or how 'involuntary' would even be considered.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by snarky412
 

likewise, from the autopsy report onwards, i foresaw either aquittal or hung jury.
i am glad the result was an aquittal.

i just asked because your post appeared to favor the involuntary charge as potentially provable and i'm curious why.

had his shot exited TM and killed a bystander, i'd totally agree.
just wondering why or how 'involuntary' would even be considered.


I believe it was on FOX, they are the only ones that has 2 guests with opposite views regarding the case.
CNN is clearly for TM, so they are only one sided.

I believe it was either during the jury deliberation or after, but one lawyer had mentioned that had they put involuntary m.s. on the table, then maybe he might be found guilty--maybe. The way they were lacking in evidence, most predicted an acquittal.

I always believed him to be innocent.
I never fell for the MSM race card, never do.

Also, the special DA Angela Corey, is actually in the hot seat for withholding evidence that could have helped the defense. Plus delaying turning over what they had to them.
Politics at it's worst......



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by snarky412
 


Actually, I did not mean to reply to your post, sorry. But, I don't live in a city and this case has made me wonder. What if I had a teenage son in a place like Sanford. Our town is more focused on sexual predators, we don't have high rate of theft or murder crimes. How would I advise him to handle a situation like that, a stranger following you and staring at you. Should he run, should he confront, should he let the stranger know where he lives, does the stranger have a weapon, does the stranger identify himself as a law officer. I don't know about other parents but sexual predators are what we taught our children to look out for.
edit on 23-7-2013 by MOMof3 because: gra



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by snarky412
 

fair enough.
i have purposely kept away from the political baiting ... just the facts ma'am, just the facts.
i have seen news about the subsequent protests but the verdict should have been expected by anyone actually paying attention. i certainly wasn't surprised.

however, this juror is only fanning the flames with such ridiculous statements.
it is a shame to realize that even after having the facts delivered and dissected, she still fails to comprehend that 'assault' is a crime and self-defense is a natural right.

i do wonder what she would have done on the receiving end of a beat down ... i know i would have shot him sooner.

either way, i have a hard time accepting that anyone believes a 1st encounter between strangers should involve a physical assault ...

when exactly did that happen ???



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by MOMof3
reply to post by snarky412
 


Actually, I did not mean to reply to your post, sorry. But, I don't live in a city and this case has made me wonder. What if I had a teenage son in a place like Sanford. Our town is more focused on sexual predators, we don't have high rate of theft or murder crimes. How would I advise him to handle a situation like that, a stranger following you and staring at you. Should he run, should he confront, should he let the stranger know where he lives, does the stranger have a weapon, does the stranger identify himself as a law officer. I don't know about other parents but sexual predators is what we taught our children to look out for.
can i answer this with one question ? ... since TM had an active cell phone ... why didn't he call the cops and report this 'stranger danger' ????

oh yeah, cause he was busy profiling George with another, younger, teenager ... and how'd they put it ?? ... something along the lines of ... that 'creepy cracka who's prolly a pedophile or molester or worse' - per testimony, not hearsay.

although i could be wrong, i'm pretty sure you wouldn't give'em that advice, would you ?

in a gated community, why would either automatically think and profess the other was trouble ???
perhaps that is the real question we should be addressing.

i would also tend to think that if child predators are the common denominators in either situation, perhaps children shouldn't be travelling alone ... although, a group attack would simply mean more dead kids ... maybe, just maybe ppl should try communicating with their words BEFORE their firsts or pocket rockets



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by MOMof3
 


I was always told 'Never get yourself in a situation that you can't get out of'.
I'm 47 and still live by that rule.


We were always told when in doubt, to run home or to a friend's house and call for help.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


The one thing that bothers me.....not one person has mentioned the fact that beating up a person is WRONG on so many levels.
And in ignoring this, it's like a green light for others with the same mentality to do the same.

TM was suspicious looking because of his actions, not his skin color.

I hate how it turned out, sad for his family.
But he was already going down a bad road by the sound of it.
Gun pictures on the phone, texts of buying/selling gun. Trouble at school, hence his suspension. I could go on but I won't.

It's a tragedy any way you see it.
But it's not about race.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by snarky412
 

i sure hope that "not one person" statement excludes me


i did say it, many times over and over.
apparently, to a deaf audience.

i wasn't there so i don't surmise what behavior was observed.
whatever it was, it was enough to get George's attention and interest enough to call the police.

my sole question still remains ... if TM was soooo scared, rattled, living a child's worst nightmare or any of the other statements made by so many, why didn't he call for help ???

cops, parents, brother, neighborhood watchman or anyone besides a younger teen who was intentionally (by her own admission) feeding his ego ?

is this really what we're teaching kids these days ?
has 'game theory' invaded our common sense so severly ?
since music, art and gaming have so often been villianized, why wasn't the impact of whatever game they were playing, all day, brought into the discussions ?

i'm no fan of the results either, however, for anyone to think a 1st encounter should involve a physical assault, better be an instructor at the local DoJo.


neither of their histories realy influences my opinion ... we've all done bad things at one point or another.

in this instance, it is the moment of contact that counts.
that moment of which we'll never know cause we weren't there.

what was revealed proves that Zimmerman did not physically attack Trayvon. he didn't even fight back.
the evidence proves that TM was the physical aggressor and that's on him and his, not Zimmerman or any other.

sure it's a tragedy and i am heartbroken that another life was lost but i cannot and will not blame any law or legislation.

ppl need to be responsible for their own behavior and the result it produces.

ETA -- on the note of 'blame', i will say this --
This type of tragedy is the best result the policy of "[color=amber]if you see something, say something" will ever produce.
edit on 23-7-2013 by Honor93 because: ETA



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by snarky412
 


I don't know. Like I said, I live in a small town, mostly white. You guys seem to want to heap a lot of blame on a kid, who no doubt has done dumb things like we all did. I am not sure he deserved to die for that or for crimes committed by other people. I was always taught adults know better and should be the bigger man. The men I know are not afraid of a fist fight or getting hurt by a fist. But then, they are loggers and construction workers and have had worse injuries on the job than Z had. It seems the natural and mature thing to do would have been to identify yourself as the neighborhood watch.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 10:12 PM
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What is going to be the reaction if they change the law (SYG) and a black person uses deadly force against a white person and is charged with murder when he could have retreated? Altho if you are on your back getting beat up then you cant really "stand your ground" (just "self defense" which is an inalienable right).



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by CosmicCitizen
 

fear not, the SYG law isn't going to change anytime soon.
even obama co-sponsored SYG legislation in Illinois.

why do ppl keep harping on SYG anyway ??
Cosmic, did you know that the black population have invoked the SYG defense more often than any other population ?

contrary to the propaganda of the day, no one is really in favor of repealing SYG.

as for without SYG, i would imagine more offenders would do jail time.
then again, that does seem to be a goal lately, so who knows ?

besides, who in their right mind supports "a duty to retreat" anyway ??
retreating just gets you blind-sided, ask George



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by MOMof3
 


Unfortunately, I've seen more than my fair share of kids acting just like him.
Ready to fight at the drop of a hat.
And when they do.....it's scary. The amount of ferocity that they let loose on the person that they are whaling on is unbelievable.
I do not condone that kind of behavior, to whip up on some one 'just because'. They do and they will.

And Zimmerman was not 'stalking' him. He was 'observing' him at a distance while reporting to the 911 operator and when told that it was not necessary to keep following him GZ said 'okay' and headed back to his truck.
But he did the same thing any security guard at a business would have done, to keep an eye on TM.
It was his clothing attire and his suspicious activity that caused alarm, not his skin color.



posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 
The media is going to milk this thing for all it's worth, that should be obvious to all that this is their usual tactic.Let's never forget that the media is all about ratings, careers, & money.



posted on Jul, 24 2013 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by snarky412
 


Your post has revealed a lot of what it must be like to live a city. There are a lot of suspicious looking people so you must live in fear all the time. We never made much money because we have always chose to live in small cities or towns. But we never had to live with such fear on a daily basis. Now I understand Mr. Z's motive, his concealed weapon gave him false courage.



posted on Jul, 25 2013 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by MOMof3
reply to post by snarky412
 


Your post has revealed a lot of what it must be like to live a city. There are a lot of suspicious looking people so you must live in fear all the time. We never made much money because we have always chose to live in small cities or towns. But we never had to live with such fear on a daily basis. Now I understand Mr. Z's motive, his concealed weapon gave him false courage.


I don't live in a city [thank God...LOL] but our work causes us to be around large areas of people like say at an event.
So, through the years, more so now than in the past, we see a lot of the young people engage in fights over stupid stuff.
Seems like the white kids will fight over a girl or something, keep it between themselves, and then their friends break it up.
Yet from observation and being witness to several horrific fights, the black kids all join in like it's a free for all. Now that gets scary. You may be talking about 20-30 people or more at times. There have been times when a gun goes off.
Boy, talk about people scattering then.....:shk:

Back to the GZ, he didn't have a 'motive'.
One person was acting suspicious.
One person reported it.
An altercation ensued.
And if some one tries to whack my head on the cement, you're damn straight I would fight for my life.
Hence, self defense.




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