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MSNBC: Glenn Greenwald Comments on the Progress and the Hypocrisy 7-17-13

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posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by kaylaluv
 





But if you mean I can't kill whomever I want or steal from whomever I want, than I guess you'd be right.


Wow, way to put words in my mouth. The 'free' country of the US is the only entity I said kills its enemies. I certainly don't believe in killing except in self-defense.

You also finally identified that chip on your shoulder. You are a bigot.


Really? The US is the only entity that kills it's enemies?

That's a totally arbitrary and blatantly false statement.




posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by kaylaluv
 





But if you mean I can't kill whomever I want or steal from whomever I want, than I guess you'd be right.


Wow, way to put words in my mouth. The 'free' country of the US is the only entity I said kills its enemies. I certainly don't believe in killing except in self-defense.

You also finally identified that chip on your shoulder. You are a bigot.


You are just wrong...

Misguided maybe, but Kayla is no bigot. Quite the opposite.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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It's understandable why he wouldn't want to return to the USA. He probably imagines he will end up with the same fate as Bradley Manning, who's hardly enjoying the benefits of the land of the free.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
It's understandable why he wouldn't want to return to the USA. He probably imagines he will end up with the same fate as Bradley Manning, who's hardly enjoying the benefits of the land of the free.



That's an absurd jab considering a person who commits treason isn't entitled freedom under the law.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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this thread is not at all going like I hoped it would. I was hoping for more of the, "what can we do to change the direction of this police state" type thing. what a dumb thing to hope for.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
It's understandable why he wouldn't want to return to the USA. He probably imagines he will end up with the same fate as Bradley Manning, who's hardly enjoying the benefits of the land of the free.



That's an absurd jab considering a person who commits treason isn't entitled freedom under the law.


Not really a jab, just a personal opinion. Don't be so touchy. I apologise for not taking your nationalist sensibilities into consideration.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by solongandgoodnight
this thread is not at all going like I hoped it would. I was hoping for more of the, "what can we do to change the direction of this police state" type thing. what a dumb thing to hope for.


We can vote...We can organize.

That is all the Founders gave us.

I wish they gave us a "Flush" option. But, they did not.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
It's understandable why he wouldn't want to return to the USA. He probably imagines he will end up with the same fate as Bradley Manning, who's hardly enjoying the benefits of the land of the free.



That's an absurd jab considering a person who commits treason isn't entitled freedom under the law.


Not really a jab, just a personal opinion. Don't be so touchy. I apologise for not taking your nationalist sensibilities into consideration.


I'm not touchy by that at all, I have no emotional interest in pointing out the law. It just is. People who commit treason to to jail.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by kaylaluv
 





But if you mean I can't kill whomever I want or steal from whomever I want, than I guess you'd be right.


Wow, way to put words in my mouth. The 'free' country of the US is the only entity I said kills its enemies. I certainly don't believe in killing except in self-defense.

You also finally identified that chip on your shoulder. You are a bigot.


Really? The US is the only entity that kills it's enemies?

That's a totally arbitrary and blatantly false statement.



You missed the whole point of what I posted. Kayla tried to expand what I said to include everything and I simply corrected her that I ONLY mentioned the US as the killers in my previous statement and I also never said the US was the ONLY killer just the only one I mentioned.

Frankly I don't know if you two are simply being obtuse or if you both failed at reading comprehension 101. Either way you are probably using I to derail honest dialog.

edit on 2013/7/18 by Metallicus because: moved quotes



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by whyamIhere

Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by kaylaluv
 





But if you mean I can't kill whomever I want or steal from whomever I want, than I guess you'd be right.


Wow, way to put words in my mouth. The 'free' country of the US is the only entity I said kills its enemies. I certainly don't believe in killing except in self-defense.

You also finally identified that chip on your shoulder. You are a bigot.


You are just wrong...

Misguided maybe, but Kayla is no bigot. Quite the opposite.


What I noticed is that Kayla enjoys derailing and deflecting with her use of race, orientation and religious comments where they are completely unnecessary. You can review her posting history for more examples.

This thread wasn't about race/orientation, but she once again managed to derail/deflect.

Perhaps I used the wrong descriptor, however it is still annoying and disingenuous.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by Metallicus
 


The quote in the OP specifically mentions human rights. You claim America used to be great, but is now terrible with human rights. I list examples of how America used to be much worse with human rights, but has improved over the years. How is that deflecting from the OP? You do realize that sexual and racial discrimination is a part of human rights, yes? How is that deflecting? I never even mentioned religion in this thread.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 



And he thinks that's an improvement? A better place to be? A place where people are much less free than they are in America?


I'm not sure if he thinks it is a better place to be, I would assume he would much rather be at home than being hunted like a witch.


Maybe he plans to work for their government so he can rat on them too. Then where will he go?


I doubt it. Would you put a man who leaks sensitive information in a position to do such a thing again? I think not. The only reason these countries are granting him asylum is for international political points. If you can make yourself look better than another country you do it, politics 101.

But the man in the videos point is still valid. He fled because if he did not he would be held in indefinite detention, something that was unheard of in the past. After Daniel Ellsberg released the pentagon papers they let him go about his life freely while he was on trial. If he would have done that in todays world he would be in solitary confinement, naked, with no access to anyone.

I think Snowden was doing this for fame not because he is an "honorable" man. That however does not diminish the importance of the information he released. I would honestly like to see hm come back to the US just to see what the state would do to him, and then the people would really see what happens when you mess with the authority. Because to the state the ends always justify the means when it comes to power.
edit on 18-7-2013 by Openeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 06:55 PM
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If you can honestly with no smile on your face say " well he broke the law so what does he expect," "He get's what he deserves," "He did commit treason..."

Holy Craaaap.

GO put your head in the dirt, fill it in nice n' tight around your neck.....!

Our govt. officials and corperations (what's the difference anymore) are more and more each year using the "Law" to destroy our county...

Either by changing, abolishing, or creating laws that help and protect the corperations that are slowly not only destroying our constitution by our F'n LAND....

Lying to congress, whether about war, security, economics, the environment, (gasland II great example) = Felony, treason in a lot of cases. Yet they walk and spend the millions they stole from us or made from nefarious ends..

Countless other examples of how we just turn our heads to corruption. and in a lot of cases, our heads turned for us.

Snowden is exposing things we all should stand by. and if you don't? You're really not grasping how this is good for the people.

So go stand by the laws that enforce you paradigm. Don't worry, they'll make you feel even more secure, and just know --- it's for our freedom in the long run. Riiiiight.

I'm so siick of the hypocrisy running this county.

When will we all say we have to change this, logically, and systematically?

We can't tear it all down, but we have to get back to the basics.

The people bashing any of these whistle-blowers, need the ol' "walk a day in their shoes" because I know damn right if I saw and encountered daily what a lot of these whistle-blowers came in contact with and witnessed I'd most likey do the same.

I'd be fighting with myself over throwing away my career/future careers/ life/ familie's life/ away for the truth.

That's not a light decision. But I'm glad we see people who can see the bigger picture, not just for the people of this country, but for thier children and the future of people across the world.

Cheers Manning, Assange, Hastings, and Snowden and countless other that haven't made news headlines in the past.

I for one appreciate the risks made by these brave people.

National security be damned.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 


You can pretty much do all that in Russia...you just have to have a good enough job to afford it.

Oh, but you can't go there if you have HIV/AIDS. They don't let people infected into their country. . . but we do?



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by solongandgoodnight
 




He [Snowden] is seeking refuge in Countries with abysmal human rights records... and he even went so far as to say he wanted to congratulate the leaders of Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia and Russia for standing up on this issue and being protectors of human rights... Given their records domestically... is that not hypocritical?


I am only going to address this quote... and I do so with the following question:

What nation which we might (as Americans) consider an ally or a democracy or even a semi-democratic state, would accept Snowden without almost immediately handing him over to his persecutors?

The irony here is that if he fled to Britain or France or Germany or Israel or Canada... he would find not safety or an ounce of protection from being extradited so fast that he would not likely have enough time to relieve his bladder before being taken away.

The situation is clear; Snowden either seeks refuge in nations that do now bow to the whim of the US or... he might as well walk into traffic on a LA freeway.



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