Snowden is the poster child for an UnEthical Generation

He definitely got 1 out of 1 correct, i.e. he was given a set of tasks by a foreign handler and he accomplished those tasks. If any of you honestly think that Russia and China have your interests as their priority in greater emphasis than your own country, you need your head checked.

Pentagon report finds Snowden leaks had 'staggering' intelligence impact
theguardian.com
Thursday 22 May 2014 09.39 EDT

In the article the words: staggering, grave, risk, concerns, and fears are used.

The Pentagon report (heavily redacted) was obtained by a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request.





The comments under the article are interesting as well. Mostly saying things like this.

it is simply impossible to believe this claim without evidence

and

you say this is the damage but dont say why or what or how

Which I think is ironic.
Judging by the comments it is the governments credibility that is damaged.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Yes because YOUR generation or rather any OTHER generation since ever has been pillars of honesty and integrity. *rolls eyes* I hate when people try to create generation divides and pretend like the new generation or an older generation is vastly different than the generation the person is from. It's never true and just shows that people don't understand that the human brain changes and thinks differently as people age and get older.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: mikegrouchy

Yes because YOUR generation or rather any OTHER generation since ever has been pillars of honesty and integrity. *rolls eyes* I hate when people try to create generation divides and pretend like the new generation or an older generation is vastly different than the generation the person is from. It's never true and just shows that people don't understand that the human brain changes and thinks differently as people age and get older.

Whoa whoa whoa, cool your jets there Buck Rogers.

This a long thread, and a meeting of minds between the generations was reached over the complexities of this subject. Please don't over react to the sensationalist headline of this thread. A couple of younger members finally did concede the point that Snowden did-in-fact breech his NDA. And for myself, I said that in that case a fine of $1.00 US should be paid with a sentence of time-already-served-abroad and him allowed to return home safe.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

The man shouldn't be penalized a thing. He should be honored as a hero for exposing massive corruption and deceit from our own government. The fact that a discussion even EXISTS about this and we haven't prosecuted anyone and haven't given him a medal is a testament to how brainwashed people are by the government.

Ugh the government is exposed to be GROSSLY violating one of the ORIGINAL ten amendments from the Bill of Rights and instead of doing anything about it, we argue about shooting the messenger. No offense bud, but this topic makes me extremely salty.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: mikegrouchy

No offense bud, but this topic makes me extremely salty.

As it should. Because until we clear him, and get him safely back in this country no prosecutor will move forward against any of the players. Their witness is still in hiding in other countries.

I highly recommend one read the whole thread.


Mike Grouchy

The report linked above also states...

In January, Rogers asserted that the report concluded that most of the documents Snowden took "concern vital operations of the US Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force".

"This report confirms my greatest fears — Snowden’s real acts of betrayal place America’s military men and women at greater risk. Snowden’s actions are likely to have lethal consequences for our troops in the field," Rogers said in a statement at the time.

Sensationalism or fact?


Mike Grouchy

Wow, I thought your post was going so well, then you pulled that BS at the end.

Trust you say?? Let's talk about the trust that is granted to our representatives and the people who work for the government by the people of the United States. We 'elect' these people to act on our behalf. We expect them to honor that which has been entrusted to them - our well-being, our security from outside threats, our sovereignty. When Edward Snowden saw THAT trust being betrayed on a wholesale level, what else could he do? He is one man. The people who have trust in HIM to keep their secrets are committing criminal acts that violate the US Constitution. And their secrets are supposed to be OUR secrets - they work for the PEOPLE.

So no, you are WAY off base with your assessment. Edward Snowden is a hero. He CAN be trusted to do what is RIGHT for his ultimate employers - the People of the United States.

originally posted by: [post=17950318]mikegrouchy[/post

A couple of younger members finally did concede the point that Snowden did-in-fact breech his NDA.

The US Constitution most certainly supercedes any NDA he may have signed.

Do you think he would be breaking the terms of his NDA if he witnessed murders that he was 'not allowed' to talk about under the terms of an NDA? Come on now, at some point those things aren't worth the paper they are written on.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Come on now, at some point those things aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Then why sign it?

Are you suggesting that he signed it, with foreknowledge that he had _no_ intention of abiding by it?

I think a close reading of this entire thread will show that Snowden is closer to my position on this subject, than yours.


Mike Grouchy

The man shouldn't be penalized a thing. He should be honored as a hero for exposing massive corruption and deceit from our own government.

Thankfully, for America, your opinion is meaningless. He breaks a written and stated oath then fled to the enemy and refuses to face up for what he did just for the sake of being 'somebody'-just like he said.

He is somebody now. Locked in a bunker at a closed military airport being held by a country who hate his guts for being a snitch. The only reason he is still breathing is to punish him in the most degenerating way possible for the rest of his life.

a reply to: spooky24


Well if he is the poster boy for the "unethical generation" does that mean the Rosenberg's were the poster boy for the "greatest generation"?

This man was not even really the classical type "spy" or traitor that sells information for money. That's one reason he is probably hated so much by some.....the mans a dammed idealist! He wasn't trying to buy a beach house.

originally posted by: spooky24

The man shouldn't be penalized a thing. He should be honored as a hero for exposing massive corruption and deceit from our own government.

Thankfully, for America, your opinion is meaningless. He breaks a written and stated oath then fled to the enemy and refuses to face up for what he did just for the sake of being 'somebody'-just like he said.

He is somebody now. Locked in a bunker at a closed military airport being held by a country who hate his guts for being a snitch. The only reason he is still breathing is to punish him in the most degenerating way possible for the rest of his life.

Ex-State Department intelligence analyst sentenced for leaking documents to 35 years in prison

Kim had signed a non-disclosure agreement "about the very issue in this case" shortly before the June 11, 2009 leak, the prosecutor said.

Fox News: April 02, 2014 article

In Snowdens' case I advocate a guilty conviction. with a meer $1.00 and sentenced to "time already served abroad". So I guess I agree with your first paragraph, but we seem to be pretty far apart on the penalty phase.

Spooky24,
I advocate a guilty with token fine because until we get him back we cannot move forward on any litigation over the actual programs described. He wants to give us the information. Why are we not demanding token penalty and conviction already!


Mike Grouchy
Text

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: spooky24


Well if he is the poster boy for the "unethical generation" does that mean the Rosenberg's were the poster boy for the "greatest generation"?

This man was not even really the classical type "spy" or traitor that sells information for money. That's one reason he is probably hated so much by some.....the mans a dammed idealist! He wasn't trying to buy a beach house.

Then why let them keep him from us.
We are the sovereign authority in this Country.
This generation could easily demand what treason means in his case.

My guess is because in their rush to hero worship him the actual crime is overlooked. People want to condemn parties at the NSA for even allowing this in the first place. Yet we can't actually do that _until_ we process his breaking of the NDA. I mean, my god, we can set precedent here.

Do we really live in the old world of Treason?


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

On Snowden:

Who walks away from a comfortable six-figure job and makes himself absolutely hated by an incredible number of incredibly powerful people?

A man who serves a higher power.

originally posted by: Meteoritic
a reply to: mikegrouchy

On Snowden:

Who walks away from a comfortable six-figure job and makes himself absolutely hated by an incredible number of incredibly powerful people?

A man who serves a higher power.

I do get the feeling that the great "leakers" of our day are being stage managed.

I don't know how many other readers are big into cinema technology, but sometimes I swear
that Snowden and Assange have the same cinematographer in their interviews. Down to even the same camera lense.

But who knows, right?

If neither of them can ever land.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Come on now, at some point those things aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Then why sign it?

Are you suggesting that he signed it, with foreknowledge that he had _no_ intention of abiding by it?

I think a close reading of this entire thread will show that Snowden is closer to my position on this subject, than yours.

Mike Grouchy

NDA's cannot be used to cover up illegal activity. They're void in all such instances.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Come on now, at some point those things aren't worth the paper they are written on.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
Then why sign it?

Are you suggesting that he signed it, with foreknowledge that he had _no_ intention of abiding by it?

I think a close reading of this entire thread will show that Snowden is closer to my position on this subject, than yours.

Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: Aazadan

NDA's cannot be used to cover up illegal activity. They're void in all such instances.

Is Aazadan offering to be council for Snowden? I'm not sure, but I think maybe we have to have him stateside before we can start debating motions. Even motions to dismiss.

I would rather he returns to prosecute his employer than to defend his breaking of the NDA. But if that is the route that seems most expedient I will stop by any thread you may want to start on holding his trial in absentia. Meanwhile the NDA gains teeth and the people click their channels.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

It has nothing to do with being his council. NDA's cannot be used to cover up illegal activity like murder, illegal dumping, constitutional abuses, or anything else. They can only be used to keep legal activity secret. Whoever you broke the NDA with is going to come after you and it's essentially up to you to prove your innocence but Snowden has already done that because his NDA breaking action was releasing proof of illegal activity.

As for having him stateside, that would be nice. Maybe if Bush and Obama didn't implement policies to punish whistle blowers, have members of congress call for a public execution without trial, and have real world examples of the treatment people like Manning, Wiebe, Binney, and others received he would be stateside.

a reply to: mikegrouchy


One question, before I post...

Did James Clapper take an oath prior to taking his position, and testifying in front of Congress?