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A concept (Freemasons and "Satan")

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posted on Feb, 13 2014 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly
 


Maybe we should discuss Job (Bible) ?
I am nearly certain this is one of the major roots of the misunderstandings going on here.

Another link: Job in rabbinic lit


In the Talmudic literature it is generally assumed that Job sinned or, as the expression is, "he rebelled" ("ba'aṭ"; Midr. Teh. xxvi.). It is further said that if Job had not sinned people would recite in prayer "and the God of Job," just as they recite "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob," but he rebelled (Pesiḳ. R. Aḥare Mot, ed. Friedmann, p. 190a; comp. Ex. R. xxx. 8). Job's chief complaint was, according to Raba, that although man is driven to sin by the seducer ("yeẓer ha-ra'"), whom God Himself has created, yet he is punished (comp. Job x. 7). But Eliphaz answered him: "Thou castest off fear" (ib. xv. 4), meaning, if God created the seducer, He also created the Torah, by which a man can subdue the seducer (B. B. l.c.). Raba concluded also that Job denied resurrection (ib.).
A more picturesque treatment of Job's bitterness against God is recorded by Rabbah (according to B. B. 16a), or Raba (according to Niddah 52a): Job blasphemed God by using the term "tempest" when he said, "For he breaketh me with a tempest" (Job ix. 17), which passage is interpreted by the Rabbis to mean, "Perhaps a tempest passed before Thee which caused the confusion between Job and the enemy.


Satan

In the Book of Job, ha-Satan is a member of the Divine Council, "the sons of God" who are subservient to God. Ha-Satan, in this capacity, is many times translated as "the prosecutor", and is charged by God to tempt humans and to report back to God all who go against His decrees. At the beginning of the book, Job is a good person "who feared God and turned away from evil"(Job 1:1), and has therefore been rewarded by God. When the Divine Council meets, God informs ha-Satan about Job's blameless, morally upright character. Between Job 1:9–10 and 2:4–5, ha-Satan merely points out that God has given Job everything that a man could want, so of course Job would be loyal to God; if all Job has been given, even his health, were to be taken away from him, however, his faith would collapse. God therefore grants ha-Satan the chance to test Job.[13] Due to this, it has been interpreted that ha-Satan is under God's control and cannot act without God's permission. This is further shown in the epilogue of Job in which God is speaking to Job, ha-Satan is absent from these dialogues. "For Job, for [Job's] friends, and for the narrator, it is ultimately Yahweh himself who is responsible for Job's suffering; as Yahweh says to the 'satan', 'You have incited me against him, to destroy him for no reason.'" (Job 2:3) [9]


What's this about?
Talk about confusing!
Surely God had a Reason?

Also reading other scriptures linked such as Psalm 109 indicates a similar relationship, that "God Appoints" this "Entity" aka "Force of God's Will", would you agree or disagree? Let's read and question more...


In the Septuagint the Hebrew ha-Satan in Job and Zechariah is translated by the Greek word diabolos (slanderer), the same word in the Greek New Testament from which the English word devil is derived. Where satan is used of human enemies in the Hebrew Bible, such as Hadad the Edomite and Rezon the Syrian, the word is left untranslated but transliterated in the Greek as satan, a neologism in Greek.[14]



The original Hebrew term, satan, is a noun from a verb meaning primarily to, “obstruct, oppose,” as it is found in Numbers 22:22, 1 Samuel 29:4, Psalms 109:6.[6] Ha-Satan is traditionally translated as “the accuser,” or “the adversary.” The definite article “ha-,” English “the," is used to show that this is a title bestowed on a being, versus the name of a being. Thus this being would be referred to as “the satan.”[7]



El Shaddai

El Shaddai (Hebrew: אל שדי‎, IPA: [el ʃadːaj]) is one of the Judaic names of God, with its etymology coming from the influence of the Ugaritic religion upon modern Judaism. Shaddai was one of the many Gods in Canaanite religion. El Shaddai is conventionally translated as God Almighty.



The root word "shadad" (שדד) means "to overpower" or "to destroy". This would give Shaddai the meaning of "destroyer", representing one of the aspects of God, and in this context it is essentially an epithet. The meaning of Shaddai may go back to the original sense of "shadad" which was "to be strong" akin to Arabic "shadiid" (شديد) "strong".[1] The termination "ai", typically signifying the first person possessive plural, functions as a pluralis excellentiae like other theonyms of the Hebrew God Elohim and Adonai.


Interesting, it functions as a "pluralis excellentiae"?


Harriet Lutzky, Adjunct Assistant Professor of Psychology at John Jay College, City University of New York, has presented evidence that Shaddai was an attribute of a Semitic goddess, linking the epithet Shaddai with the Hebrew šad meaning "breast", giving the meaning "the one of the Breast", as Asherah at Ugarit is "the one of the Womb".[3]
A similar theory proposed by Albright is that the name Shaddai is connected to shadayim, the Hebrew word for "breasts". It may thus be connected to the notion of God's gifts of fertility to the human race.[citation needed]



Shaddai can mean either "my sustainers" or "my destroyers" (possessive plural) in Hebrew when referring to humans and could mean both "my ultimate sustainer and my ultimate destroyer" in the majestic plural when referring to the God of Israel.



The term may mean "God of the mountains," referring to the Mesopotamian divine mountain.[4]



There is a Midrashic interpretation as an acronym standing for "Guardian of the Doors of Israel" (Hebrew: שׁוֹמֶר דְלָתוֹת יִשְׂרָאֶל). This acronym is commonly found as carvings or writings on the mezuzah, which is placed on the doorposts of Jewish homes and other dwellings.
Still another view is that "El Shaddai" is composed of the Hebrew relative pronoun She (Shin plus vowel segol), or, as in this case, as Sha (Shin plus vowel patach followed by a dagesh) [5] The noun containing the dagesh is the Hebrew word Dai meaning "enough,sufficient, sufficiency".[6]


Hmm there is so much information to ponder over here.
These are questions that plague my mind this morning, I need to have coffee and wake up fully.
I would probably bet this is one of the most misunderstood and debated books ever written.

I would like to know what you think about this terminology and those wiki's.
I suppose my question is, "Who or what do you think 'Satan' is in this Context and why"?
I would honestly like to know your views if you wouldn't mind elaborating a little bit.




posted on Feb, 13 2014 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


There were multiple groups of ancient Jews, most of whom ascribed to the Book of Enoch (I could get a source, but if you look it up it is easy to see) and believed Satan was not an office to be held and was indeed a rebel angel who is damned for eternity. Read the Book of Enoch for a history of demons, btw. The Book of the Watchers is an important read, IMO. Aside from other Scripture fully supporting it in both the OT and NT, they also believed the Book of Enoch is real and held it in high regard. This continued to the early Christians, and some of them still have it in the Canon. It is interesting to me that this book was disregarded in later years, because the author, Enoch from Genesis, said it was written for a later generation. While people will debate who the author was, people will debate who the author was of absolutely anything. Faith is required in all endeavors. The question is where do you put it?

There were a few who thought otherwise, but they were the least common and were often inclined to believe otherwise for their own want and not from an objective examination of what they already knew.

So, no, Satan is not an agent of God's will in the sense that has been presented in this thread. God does use Satan, however, to show people what they are doing when they sin.

Here is but one example:

"In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?" Corinth 5:5

If you read the Book of Job for yourself (I have, and it is a great read), you will see that Satan does in fact appear with the Angels before God. He plays his usual role, which is to make bets with God that he can get humans to make the same mistake he did and has destined him for the pit. You will see that God uses Satan to still Job's pride, and specifically states that that is what He is doing.

Satan is subservient to God. There is no duality. Satan has already lost. God now uses him to tempt man and to get His children to repent (those who are truly His children will do this, and those who are not have the spirit of the Anti-Christ). Those who will not repent will face the same fate as Satan. Satan can tempt them with anything from riches to women to all of the kingdoms of the world. This world is Satan's. If you read the Bible, and also consider all that has been happening in the world, you will see that the Bible is true and you will see this for yourself (that the world is in the hands of Satan).

I always think it is funny when people present Satan as an office to be held. Those same people normally think Christ is an office to be held. Stay away from their soothsaying, because God warned us they would come. In the end times, it will be they who persecute God's children and usher in the Anti-Christ. What is astounding to me is that they even exist when God warned everyone and them. It is strange to think that in the end times, everyone who is able to buy or sell will be destined for Hell.

If you have any questions or any points to raise, it might take me until tomorrow to get to them.

Peace in Christ.

ETA: BTW, Job is one of the oldest books in existence and is an outstanding read. It helps you understand a lot. Please read it all the way through. The long discourses are tedious to read through, but the lessons learned are extremely valuable.

If you have the Spirit of God in you, the one in you is stronger than the one in this world. So do not worry about being in Satan's world. Either you will have the spirit of the Anti Christ or the Spirit of God, by the time you die.
edit on 13-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)


another eta:

God did not create Satan. God created an angel commonly referred to as Lucifer (light bearer). That angel rebelled. Now that that angel is Satan, God uses it for his purposes (along with the rest of the demons). All things work for the good of believers. Just as angels may rebel, humans may rebel. For an understanding of why some people do not like people using the term Lucifer to refer to Satan before the fall, read about Theosophy. Reading some Blavatsky (founder of modern Theosophy) would also help you understand much of what you see on ATS.
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edit on 13-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2014 @ 04:33 PM
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FreeWillAnomaly
you will see that Satan does in fact appear with the Angels before God. He plays his usual role, which is to make bets with God


I must say, your portrayal of God as a gambler is rather unique.


Reading some Blavatsky (founder of modern Theosophy) would also help you understand much of what you see on ATS.


Also much about Christianity. Theosophy is really a study in comparative religions. Some interesting facts are pointed out, for example, that the Christian story of Lucifer which you tell may also be found in Hindu texts, thousands of years before Christianity:

The Hindu Lucifer, the Mahasura, is also said to have become envious of the Creator's resplendent light, and, at the head of inferior Asuras (not gods, but spirits), to have rebelled against Brahma; for which Siva hurled him down to Patala.
~Blavatsky, the Secret Doctrine, Vol 2, page 237.

Note that I reference the source and even the page number. I find that if one is familiar with texts, exact references are usually pretty easy to find.



posted on Feb, 13 2014 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Saurus
 


Hinduism is a religion that incorporates much of what is known of angels and demons. In Hinduism, they are called gods or spirits. In Christianity, each region is known to be controlled by a head demon (IE, Prince of Persia) with other lesser demons under them. Many of the pagan gods were either demons or nephilim in even Greek mythology. In truth, it is highly probable, and there is much evidence, that every false religion can be traced to Babylon. Most false gods are real entities, if not all. There we find the reason for the 1st commandment. Have no false gods in front of God.

Theosophy is by no means comparative religion as they claim. It IS a religion, and one of the stated goals is to usher in a new age and persecute Bible-believing Christians because they are "unfit for the new age." That is part of why many Christians believe they are a continuation of the religions which will usher in the Anti-Christ. Looking at where Theosophy draws it's roots from, it would appear to be true. Do not confuse Theosophy with theosophy, though.

I don't really care that you referenced the page number. You only know the page number if you have read the texts way too many times.

Theosophists also believe that lucifer is good and that lucifer made a great sacrifice for humanity to bring knowledge to humanity. They even state it on their official website and have an entire page dedicated to the topic.

ETA: God doesn't gamble with Satan. Satan gambles with God. God already knows the outcome, win or lose for the human in question.
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posted on Feb, 13 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly
 


I should also mention that there is only one instance that we know of where Satan offered someone all of the kingdoms of the world. Jesus had a choice to abandon the Father and rule the world. If He would have chosen to do so, He would have never been tortured to death so that you would have a chance at salvation and eternal life in God. You can find this in the Temptation of Christ (first part of the Gospel).

God is not of this world. This world is Satan's. If you are God's child, God is in you, and Satan is subservient to God (although not by choice, the choice that you still have). This indeed gives you dominion over Satan and God explicitly tells us this. But first, you must abandon the world and attain righteousness through God. I myself am struggling with this every day. It is a battle. Just know that the one in you is stronger than the one in the world (God told us this in His Word). This is why the cowardly do not go to Heaven. The cowardly do not have the Spirit of God in them, but instead the spirit of the Anti-Christ (Satan). It is not their fear that keeps them from Heaven, because fear of God is true. Cowardice in the face of Satan is what keeps them from Heaven, but not in and of itself - it is indicative of a state of being.

And on that note, just because someone appears in front of others to be "casting out Satan," does not mean they have the Spirit of God in them and does not mean they are really casting out Satan.

""Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'"

Don't trust your perceptions, because they will deceive you.
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posted on Feb, 13 2014 @ 06:18 PM
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One last thing before I go: Satan is directly responsible for all of the suffering and decay you see in this dying world. It is Satan who tempted man to fall, and that was not as an agent of God's will, but instead was a result of the free will God gave to His creations.

To any who are reading: Seek peace. When you know the meanings of the words "I want peace" and leave the rest, including vengeance, to the Lord: then you will know peace.

I will probably be working too much overtime and doing what needs to be done around here to do much posting soon, but I will try to get back to any responses as soon as I can.

Peace in Christ.

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posted on Feb, 13 2014 @ 06:56 PM
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FreeWillAnomaly
One last thing before I go: Satan is directly responsible for all of the suffering and decay you see in this dying world. It is Satan who tempted man to fall, and that was not as an agent of God's will, but instead was a result of the free will God gave to His creations.

To any who are reading: Seek peace. When you know the meanings of the words "I want peace" and leave the rest, including vengeance, to the Lord: then you will know peace.

I will probably be working too much overtime and doing what needs to be done around here to do much posting soon, but I will try to get back to any responses as soon as I can.

Peace in Christ.

edit on 13-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry but I have to agree with some other posters that the belief in Satan is like believing in the tooth fairy. I'm sorry but blaming all the bad things on Satan is for the weak and imo people of this world are directly responsible for the bad things not some imaginary boogie man.



posted on Feb, 14 2014 @ 09:43 AM
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FreeWillAnomaly
I will probably be working too much overtime and doing what needs to be done around here to do much posting soon, but I will try to get back to any responses as soon as I can.

Peace in Christ.

edit on 13-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)


Working overtime? But.....money is the root of all evil. In fact, you said:

FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Having money and friends brings a man to ruin.

I used to have way too much of both. Life is better without.
edit on 11-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)


Might want to try to remember the stories so you can keep them straight. We wouldn't want you to bring yourself to ruin.



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