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A concept (Freemasons and "Satan")

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posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Saurus
 


Why should I explain it to you when I would be wasting my time? You don't believe the Word.




posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


23The poor man utters supplications, But the rich man answers roughly. 24A man of too many friends comes to ruin, But there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.

One friend will sharpen your mind in your life. I have only had one who truly did, out of many that I had from all walks of life. The rest served to hinder any attempts at purifying my mind.

What is a bitter recluse? Can you define that for me without emotional terminology?
edit on 11-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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FreeWillAnomaly
You do not define your own reality.


I most certainly do and you sound rather foolish claiming I do not. My perception is my reality and I happen to perceive that believing in the Tooth Fairy Devil is not part of my reality.


I think your views are very irresponsible. Maybe this is a personal responsibility issue. You are responsible for realizing that you do not define your own reality, and that trying to is a sin.


You can think what you want, it is your prerogative. My view is that believing in some boogeyman who controls humanity's actions, whether directly or indirectly, is the pinnacle of irresponsibility. It demonstrates a rather sociopathic tact that attempts to alleviate personal responsibility by allocating all one's transgressions onto a supernatural agency.

As far as sin, who is to say your interpretation of what constitutes a 'sin' is part of anyone else's perception? I frankly get tired of the religious nutters telling me about how they feel I may or may not be sinning. Just because, for example, I happen to not got to church and keep the 'Lord's Day' holy I need to pack my SPF 1,000,000. Well, that may be your perspective, my perspective is different. Why does God need a special 'day' and why do I have to do it in some building dedicated to fleecing the gullible out of their hard earned money? I choose to give thanks to God in my own way and in my own time. You can keep your dogma and your personal viewpoint, neither work for me.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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FreeWillAnomaly

You should stop concerning yourself with the material world, which is in the hands of Satan, and concern yourself with matters of the spirit.


What do you mean?
How can I concern myself with it anymore than I already have (am) ?

You just aren't aware of what I have been doing lately.
Or maybe you are and I am just confused?

I was totally convinced that I focused on it so much, that I literally pushed everyone away without meaning to.
I 'come on too strongly' and am 'too intense', or whatever.

In fact that's what prompted my complaint about the state of my material existence.
I take it back though, I shouldn't have said anything.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


You do not define your reality because you are not God. Your perceptions are not your reality. This is exactly why magic is forbidden. That is what is necessary for magic and mental alchemy - basing your thoughts on your perceptions. You have blinded yourself in doing that.

You keep saying boogeyman and tooth fairy. Your emotions and need for control remind me of a 4 year old. In fact, that is exactly why you chose to base your thoughts on your perceptions and attempt to define your reality. You feel the need to be in control.

"My precious"



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 




I know what you are doing. I knew from the first post. Your inability to relinquish your own control in your attempt to understand who you are examining here is why you, and many who tried before you, have failed.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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FreeWillAnomaly
You do not define your reality because you are not God. Your perceptions are not your reality. This is exactly why magic is forbidden. That is what is necessary for magic and mental alchemy - basing your thoughts on your perceptions. You have blinded yourself in doing that.


Magic and Alchemy? I think it is a bit more simple than that. If I get in a conversation with someone and my perception of them is that they are a giant douche bag then guess what? They are, as far as I am concerned, a giant douche bag. That is my perception and therefore it is my reality. This applies in all situations and has nothing to do with me 'being God' or any such silliness that you postulate. How else does someone base their thoughts? On what some dim bulb invented centuries ago to keep you scared and repressed?


You keep saying boogeyman and tooth fairy. Your emotions and need for control remind me of a 4 year old. In fact, that is exactly why you chose to base your thoughts on your perceptions and attempt to define your reality. You feel the need to be in control.


I am in control of my thoughts and I choose not to waste them on some concocted Christian fairy tale like Satan. My rather happy reality does not involve believing in supernatural boogeymen who may or may not be influencing my life. There are far better topics to concern one's self with than make believe monsters.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by muzzleflash
 




I know what you are doing. I knew from the first post. Your inability to relinquish your own control in your attempt to understand who you are examining here is why you, and many who tried before you, have failed.


What?

I have no idea what you mean.
I just got up, had some coffee, copied some posts over to another thread, then wandered in here randomly to see what was going on.
That's mostly all I was doing, honestly.

You are making huge statements of judgement without having intimate knowledge, you realize this right?
I am honestly appalled because I didn't intend to get into a petty dispute,
but yet here I am.

I just figured that I put up with all this BS here at the website I earned the right to complain a little.
It was in general and not even towards you.

Maybe being ignored by everyone is for the better...
edit on 11-2-2014 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


You obviously don't even understand what I said. I wasn't arguing.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 09:03 PM
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FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog
 


I'm not sure if that's the one where Ksig posted that he thinks salvation based on faith in Jesus is dumb. I might look later if he keeps bugging me about it and refusing to be honest.

There have been a few after-discussion posts of the original post where the guy pretending to be from the hidden hand (which is real, btw) delivers a message with the goal of subverting free will and conducting a psychological experiment. Why so many psychological experiments seem to have the intent of the subversion of free will, I will never know. Anyways, I am not sure if that is the one or not.

You have made 2 accusations about ksig without proof and he might be fine with it but I think it's wrong, you tell me to find it myself but I don't think you realize how hard it is to find your proof for you with out real details. I posted the most popular hidden hand thread but to the best of knowledge the "real hidden hand" never posted on ats and it was just some ats member posting some of the guys older work. You remember what ksig wrote in the thread but you can't tell me if the thread I posted looks familiar, I mean you must of read the thread not to long ago if you remember what ksig said unless you guys have had prior communication in earlier threads. If he did say salvation based on faith of Jesus is dumb or wrong then what's the big deal, it's his opinion that is shared with plenty of other people in this world? To the best of knowledge Ksig and the vast majority of other Freemasons on this site haven't said anything disrespectful about people's beliefs and Religion unless of course they happen to be some anti-mason using their religion to bash them. I see you keep saying the Bible shouldn't be interpreted and taken at face value and if that's the case then many of it's teachings have no place in our society today. No disrespect to any the Christians of ats but if we take the New Testament at face value then he's not the all loving God I know. I believe God doesn't care what religion someone follows and will even reward the non believers who do good things without believing they will go to Heaven for it.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog
 


I really do hope you feel better now.

The hidden hand is not a person nor is it the name of an organization, btw. It surely isn't aliens either (well, at least not in the mainstream use of the word). Yet, it does exist, and the evidence is everywhere.

Oh, and it doesn't randomly show up on conspiracy sites to divulge super secret information either.
edit on 11-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 09:44 PM
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FreeWillAnomaly
reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog
 


I really do hope you feel better now.

The hidden hand is not a person nor is it the name of an organization, btw. It surely isn't aliens either (well, at least not in the mainstream use of the word). Yet, it does exist, and the evidence is everywhere.

Oh, and it doesn't randomly show up on conspiracy sites to divulge super secret information either.
edit on 11-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)

So did Ksig say this guy (the guy who said he was a part of the Illuminati) is the real deal and I believe him or did he just take part in the thread without saying he's a fake, Did who ever made those claims come out and say it was all part of an experiment? Are you sure the guy who said he was part of the Illuminati wasn't just trolling? I mean there has been literally 100's of those same kinds of threads and plenty of people take part of them without calling the guy a fake (even if there is a 99% chance they are) but that doesn't mean any of them where in on it or fell for it. If you look a few pages back lettmon was saying all these music artist are using code in their songs to talk about him and I never said he's full of it even if to be honest I don't believe it to be true.



posted on Feb, 11 2014 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog
 


I will entertain you with a response because I have nothing better to do at the moment:

It was a psychological experiment that Ksig took part in. Ksig pretended to believe the guy was real and pretended to love the spiritual concepts presented and contrasted them to Christian beliefs. I really don't feel like digging through all of the BS to find it and Ksig knows what I am talking about which is all that really matters (even if he pretends not to). Ksig probably had no moral qualms about participation because he ascribes to duality and salvation through works alone (no faith in Jesus required), which was part of the conceptual ideology presented in the experiment.

ATS seems to be a hot spot for psychological experimentation. I can see why.

Anyways, I am not interested in "accusing" people of things and if people can't just be honest and open, I will simply observe their responses and their reasoning. All people are natural born liars, so accusing someone of participating in a psychological experiment is like accusing them of having been born. Righteousness is something that you attain through Jesus (and even then, the vast majority of believers never will). It is not something you are born with.



posted on Feb, 12 2014 @ 01:57 AM
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It seems I touched a nerve...

Thank you all for the replies, they are very stimulating.

Upon re-reading my first post I realize it was misguided; but, I simply wrote the concept that was in my mind.

I do however want to make the point that I put "Satan" in quotation marks, because this is a general idea of the "Anti-God", the "Opposer", a different power from God itself, which is based on hate and anger rather than love and compassion. I don't think I'm referring to something as silly as a Tooth Fairy.

__


reply to post by noonebutme
 




Bollocks. Name a country that is "lead" by the tenants of Freemasonry.


Really? You can't think of any? Do you know a place called Lafayette Square?

Is this guy (a freemason, apparently), totally wrong to point out the influence of Freemasonry in Washington, D.C, at it's foundation? Wouldn't you say that the George Washington was the leader of a newborn country, the United States of America?

If there is documentation that shows that Washington avoided letting Freemasonry tenants influence the new country, please point me to it. I would say, however, that the laying of the cornerstone of the White House during a Masonic Ritual lead by George Washington seems to rule out that possiblity.

__


I think that the most frequent allegation by the Freemasons that replied to this thread was that I didn't research enough. In fact, network dude said I "know ZERO" about what I'm talking about. Others have voiced similar accusations. I keep thinking, well, it doesn't matter how many books are written or how much information is available for free on the Internet. I cannot have access to the truth unless I go through initiation. That is why I speculated based on what I know and came up with the concept - that freemasons are totally misguided themselves because they are locked into the secrecy. I couldn't explain the mind-boggling, centuries-old secrecy in any other way, other than that the secrecy hides a hideous truth, that is, that in reality Freemasons are guided by an "Anti-God".

Also, I have one question, based on The CHARGES of a Free-mason, section VI - Of Behavior, which states:



4. B E H AV IOU R in the Presence of S TR A NGE R S not M A S ON S. You shall be cautious in your Words and Carriage, that the most penetrating Stranger shall not be able to discover or find out what is not proper to be intimated ; and some- times you shall divert a Discourse, and manage it prudently for the Honour of the worshipful Fraternity.


First of all, is this document still relevant?

If so, is this what the freemasons are doing in this thread? Managing it prudently?



posted on Feb, 12 2014 @ 02:17 AM
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SomeoneWatching

If so, is this what the freemasons are doing in this thread? Managing it prudently?


I don't know because I am not them.

But what I do know is that I penetrated into all sorts of places they never expected and they never did anything to stop me.
No warning, no threat, nothing like that happened.

Maybe I'm sorta like Nightcrawler with the BAMF ?



posted on Feb, 12 2014 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly
 

Well you're lying. I'm sure I commented on whatever thread you are talking about, but I never said that I believe salvation is attained through works alone. I've always stated that you need both faith and works, and, yes, I'm Christian. Also, duality is not contradictory to Christianity.



posted on Feb, 12 2014 @ 03:30 AM
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Saurus
What I find amusing about my avatar is that very "religious" anti-masons always notice the woman in my avatar, but never the cat.


I don't want to see anything except the ravishing lady I will call Beth.
She so hawt, Rawr!



posted on Feb, 12 2014 @ 05:33 AM
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Very interesting concept.



posted on Feb, 12 2014 @ 05:35 AM
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People who believe in the devil are weak people who know they have an excuse for doing evil things by blaming it on the devil.
"The devil made me do it!!" pfft weak minded fool.
Picking on Masons isn't on really I have chatted with many here and in the real world and they are decent people just wanting to do a bit of good but it is a shame that they get BS like this all the time....it is just ignorance nothing more...maybe jealously also.
edit on 12-2-2014 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2014 @ 07:51 AM
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SomeoneWatching
That is why I speculated based on what I know and came up with the concept - that freemasons are totally misguided themselves because they are locked into the secrecy. I couldn't explain the mind-boggling, centuries-old secrecy in any other way, other than that the secrecy hides a hideous truth, that is, that in reality Freemasons are guided by an "Anti-God".


Which is why everyone kind of told you that you were wrong. I don't even know why I am telling you this, but I hope you are at least interested in the truth.

Masonry holds very few secrets. And those secrets that we as masons will not tell you, have already been printed in books over and over again. I as a mason, don't care if you know them, I only care that I will not tell you what they are. Because I promised to keep them to myself. Much like if a friend came to me and told me something they hoped to keep between us. It's about trust.

Secondly, masons must believe in a supreme being or some form of God in order to become a mason. We tend to think that all manifestations of God are the same, but he can have different names. So the Muslim brother can pray to Allah, while the Christian brother next to him can pray to God or Jesus Christ and both will get along and not worry about which one is right. So there is no Anti-Christ or Satan, or Lucifer, or any other boogyman you want to point to that we worship. Just the God of our respective religion. There is no "higher up", that is something that anti-masons came up with to answer the really crazy questions. We as brothers all meet on the level. All of us.

And I have never seen that passage until now. I am not saying it's not in some other jurisdiction, just not in mine.



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