Democracy in Iraq?-I laugh myself to death.

I don�t know who get�s the idea to invade the iraq and trying to put a democracy in this country, Bush?..This is such a unreal thing! Iraq=democratic?...no way! North Korea= democratic? just a two examples how much unreal this is!

But let us turn the tables! The United States of America= A muslim state like Iran? or
Europe=communistic?

This whole politics in a country has to do with the mentality of the people they live in there! you can not change their mind..or their traditional "way of life"...
otherwise its also unimaginable that the USA has an communistic regime! Why should the american people vote for a communistic party? Haven�t they a good enough life with the republican or democrat�s goverments? Did you people know what I�m trying to explain?..thanks for further respond!

[edit on 13-11-2004 by dacruz]

yeah da cruz.....i kind of agree with you....this is what the problem is with all the new countries entering europe in 2007 and trying to educate their people to change from their old communistic ways to thinking like in the west....i have friends in a few of these countries and trying to make them understand that its worth owning their own property so they can sell it for more money in the future is nigh on impossible.....just an example!

Regards.

I agree wit ya. Altho i wouldnt mind seeing a dictatorship or anarchy in canada....dam i wonder how much more violent the hockey would be with anarchy....yay go anarchy. Democracy in iraq wont work cause....they're religious nuts. They dont want equality they want control...all religion does is take control of ya....nuf said.

And I suppose you all would consider America a democracy? Not once does it say in the Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence or Constitution that America is a democracy. We are a republic. To say that we are going to bring a "democracy" to Iraq is the equivalent of saying that we are going to bring a "mobocracy" to it. And in that, I think, we have succeeded.

hey wow!, thats a good point mephorium! go ahead

yes orfeo, but arent we all (me not lol) religious nuts? think of the bush-regime and their voters.

Thank you, dacruz, though I do understand what you are saying. It will be a long and difficult process, but I think it can be done. The Iraqi people have to want a republic though. Unless they can form some sort of disestablishmentarianistic society, I don't see it happing any time soon. I could be wrong.

Well, that becomes a very, very expensive process. That means years over years american troops in iraq! I think for full democracy "recovery" they need a mind control machine or something like that.

As you say the are religious nuts, its very hard to "delete" the muslim values out of their heads. And diffuse christian "values" lol in the people of the Iraq.

Originally posted by dacruz
hey wow!, thats a good point mephorium! go ahead

yes orfeo, but arent we all (me not lol) religious nuts? think of the bush-regime and their voters.

I voted for Bush, and I haven't been to church in over a decade.

Anyhow, as for the question - it seems you are implying that Iraqi's and Arabs in general can not handle Democracy, and thus must be controlled by a dictator.

If this is the case, I feel bad for you. Arabs are just as smart and compitent as anyone else, and also value their freedom as much as anyone else. The problem is people need to realise that getting a stable Democracy isn't going to happen over night.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by dacruz
hey wow!, thats a good point mephorium! go ahead

yes orfeo, but arent we all (me not lol) religious nuts? think of the bush-regime and their voters.

I voted for Bush, and I haven't been to church in over a decade.

Anyhow, as for the question - it seems you are implying that Iraqi's and Arabs in general can not handle Democracy, and thus must be controlled by a dictator.

If this is the case, I feel bad for you. Arabs are just as smart and compitent as anyone else, and also value their freedom as much as anyone else. The problem is people need to realise that getting a stable Democracy isn't going to happen over night.

Nor we will ever allow you to install some puppet so you can have bases in Iraq forever, and free access and control to the government. That's why the insurgency will never stop, and Insha'Allah, they will be successful.

If god wishes.

I wonder what he/she/it really wishes for.

There will never be democracy in Iraq, democracy doesn�t work. Keeping the people happy works, and that�s pretty much all the western world does. You can protest and debate what doesn�t make the people happy, but at the end of the day if the people in charge have made up their minds, there�s little you can do about it. That�s why there so big internally in the west on the saying "If you cant beat them, join them".

Originally posted by kode
That�s why there so big internally in the west on the saying "If you cant beat them, join them".

Not in the east. Like I said, the insurgency will never, ever stop. Get out and let the civil war take place, and they can establish their own government.

If you want terrorism to stop, which was supposed to be the original goal, then get out of the Mideast. Since you obviously have no intention of leaving anytime soon, expect 9/11s over and over again, until your economy is nothing, and you can't afford to be there anymore. You can change governments, you can kill people, you can do anything you want, but you cannot change every person's mind, therefore there will always be people who are ready to fight you no matter what you conquer.

Maybe after the second 9/11, you'll learn a lesson. Or you'll become even more aggressive, and you'll turn the world into Israel.

Originally posted by dacruz
I don�t know who get�s the idea to invade the Iraq and trying to put a democracy in this country, Bush?..This is such a unreal thing! Iraq=democratic?...no way! North Korea= democratic?

just a two examples how much unreal this is!

Well, is nothing wrong with trying to make countries aware of the benefits of a democratic government, specially for the people.

I don't think that attaining a democracy in a place like Iraq can not be possible but it will not be the type of democracy that we enjoy here in US, if that is the though of the President then his hopes are beyond him.

The country of Iraq can survive and prosper in a type of government that will ensure that all groups are included and their religion should be respected and tolerated but never substituted with another one.

It will take time to convince the citizens of that country that the government wants the best for them, but until the US and "coalition" leaves their lands that will never be attainable after the way the invasion of that country has turn into.

But let us turn the tables! The United States of America= A Muslim state like Iran? or
Europe=communistic?

I can picture US turning into a police state first before turning into a muslin or communist one. The signs are around us already but we are still blind about our government agenda.

This whole politics in a country has to do with the mentality of the people they live in there! you can not change their mind..or their traditional "way of life"...

You are right on this one the mental state of the people in a country has to do with generations upon generations of building their culture, religion and historical background.

To change these things the entire ethnic group of the area will have to change also, one country alone will not do it.

Also the new generations will have to be willing to accept the changes.

otherwise its also unimaginable that the USA has an communistic regime! Why should the American people vote for a communistic party? Haven�t they a good enough life with the republican or democrat�s governments? Did you people know what I�m trying to explain?..thanks for further respond!

Actually one of the reason people in the US can not embrace a communistic regime is the same reason Iraq or Nk can not embrace a democracy, is due to the mentality and believes of the people.

We in the US has been fed that communism and theocratic governments oppress the citizens and violated human rights.

So we in a "democratic" are conditioned to see other regimes that are not "democratic" as evil and degrading to their citizens.

[edit on 11-12-2004 by marg6043]

The only difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in the first one, you get to choose your oppressors.

Let's take another example... what would've happened if another country had militarily invaded the United States in 1860 and tried to get women and blacks to vote? It wouldn't have worked, because the mentalities weren't compatible with that kind of idea.

This is NOT to say that the Iraqis are unevolved. This is to say that if democracy is going to take root in Iraq, it's going to be the way the Iraqis want it, and when they want it. It may be 10 years from now, it may be 50 years from now. It may be a kind of democracy the United States wouldn't recognize as such.

But the gist is, it's their country and they'll put in the regime they're ready for and which corresponds to their reality. What worries me about the American attempts to transplant democracy is that from the Iraqi point of view, it may look like a "foreign" model, brought into their country by another nation - an occupying one at that.

And besides... if America is a Republic and not a democracy... then what is it doing trying to spread democracy across the world?

Originally posted by American Mad Man

I voted for Bush, and I haven't been to church in over a decade.

Anyhow, as for the question - it seems you are implying that Iraqi's and Arabs in general can not handle Democracy, and thus must be controlled by a dictator.

If this is the case, I feel bad for you. Arabs are just as smart and compitent as anyone else, and also value their freedom as much as anyone else. The problem is people need to realise that getting a stable Democracy isn't going to happen over night.

Hey dude! I do not say that arabs are less intelligent than the western population, if you miss-interprit my text, then I am sorry about that.

As you say: "The problem is people need to realise that getting a stable Democracy isn�t going to happen over night"
Yes I know this, but only the intentions..the conception to bring a Democracy to such a country who�s since,I don�t know, his "baby cot" years a kind of muslim state..Actually its out of mind, to invade Iraq with the purpose to free the country and bring a democracy to all the people, with the argument that Saddam has chemical weapons or some sort of others..I do not say that Saddam is a good guy, but the "only" arbritation to invade is audacious..Its like when the German Goverment decides to invade Switzerland with the argument.."give us the nazi-gold back" or something like that "and we want that switzerland joins Europa and the eu and the NATO" blablabla, Im tired of looking the USA goverment playing the world police.

greetings!
and marg you�ve got the way above thanks to take apart the text and show us clear answer to the questions

[edit on 11-12-2004 by dacruz]

These are my feelings on the subject.

Originally posted by dgtempe

These are my feelings on the subject.

What? Just what are you're feelings on the subject? All i see are smiley faces... I can't remember the last time I saw a thoughtful post from you dgtempe.

Sorry I had to vent there.... Peace?

Back to the subject at hand... I put that Jihad guy on ignore... Never used that button before, but I just might get myself banned from this site if I ever have to reply to his posts... I'm just protecting my back.

I think Democracy can work in Iraq... The majority of Iraqi's want it... Only the minority extremists are putting up a fight. It will be a bit shakey at first... But Rome wasn't built in a day. Most of Iraq is stable, everything you hear on the news is comming from like three territories in Iraq. The rest is relatively peaceful.

Give it some time... Everything is going to be alright.

The USA and other countries cant force democracy on the Iraqi people.
Instead the USA and its allies can help the Iraqi people understand what demorcracy is and give them the means (be defeating the insurgents & rebuilding the countrie) to undertake a society where democracy prospers.

Originally posted by xpert11
The USA and other countries cant force democracy on the Iraqi people.
Instead the USA and its allies can help the Iraqi people understand what demorcracy is and give them the means (be defeating the insurgents & rebuilding the countrie) to undertake a society where democracy prospers.

Exactly!!! If we were forcing Democracy on them would that make us any better then Saddam? We removed a dictator that killed like 250 civilians a day and are replacing him with a government run by the people... From there they can do what they like with it.

Of course we are going to build military bases in Iraq... We would be stupid not to. Its a violent region of the world, and with Iraq, we will have a staging point keep on eye on the rest of the Middle East. I'm also sure the Iraqi people will need our help for a while to come after they hold their elections in January.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that all goes at least halfway decently.......

A secular democratic republic surrounded by oppressive regimes...yeah, that'll go off without a hitch...