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Originally posted by punkinworks10
You do realize that you opened a giant can o worms, being carried by a barrel of monkeys
Also calling member Skalla, your input of knapping tecniques would be appreciated and of value to the discussion
Originally posted by Hanslune
My opinion is that the hypothesis is not proven by quality of the evidence provided for tool comparison between those stones found in Europe and NA.
The plausibility of movement between Europe and NA along the Ice age sea ice
The present ambiguity in the DNA evidence
Originally posted by Hanslune
Archaeology is essentially a long series of contentions, piffle, fighting and gathering evidence, publishing it and then defending that publication and its conclusion from a bunch of yahoo's who seem to think your an idiot who doesn't know the basics - and that is how it should be and is.
The Cinmar bipoint was dredged up in 1970 by Capt. Thurston Shawn from the waters off shore from Hampton, Virginia. It is named after the captain’s ship. It came up with a mastodon skull which provided the radiocarbon date of 22,760 +/- 90 RCYBP (UCIAMS-53545). The depth of the find was from 38-40 fathoms in the Atlantic.
he Smithsonian Institution tested the rhyolite and found it was from South Mountain in Pennsylvania. The well-made bipoint has a length-wise slight curve which is the result of its initial manufacture from a large flake or spall. This is suggested by the very small remnant platform at one end. Otherwise, it is flaked bifacially. It has polish from usage and the patination is light due to its water-buried environment. It has several large, bold flake scars; however, none of the scars transverse from edge-to-edge across each face. The cross-section is biconvex which suggests an alternate manufacturing technique of large cobble biface reduction. Edge trim has microflaking scars which finalized its shape and provided a sharp edge. It was probably a hafted implement. It has pointed and semi-round ends (base and tip). Figures 1 and 2 show both faces. The Cinmar bipoint is easily a classic Solutrean bipoint which was made from American stone. With its date, rhyolite is suggested as the first choice of U. S. bipoint makers.
Continental Shelf Bifaces
Looking over the abstracts for the Paleoamerican Odyssey conference in Santa Fe this October I came across an illustration next to the abstract "North America Before Clovis:Variance in Temporal/Spatial Cultural Patterns, 24,000-13,000 BP" by Michael Collins, Dennis Stanford, and Darin Lowery. Elsewhere, It has been stated that 4 additional "laurel leaf" blades have been brought up from the continental shelf, in addition to the Cinmar blade which appeared on the cover of "Across Atlantic Ice". The first blade on the left here is the Cinmar blade. I believe the other 4 must be the other ones brought up from the continental shelf. Does anyone have any information on the details of their recovery?
Solutrean Industry was a short-lived style of toolmaking that flourished approximately 17,000 to 21,000 years ago in southwestern France (e.g., at Laugerie-Haute and La Solutré) and in nearby areas. The industry is of special interest because of its particularly fine workmanship. The Solutrean industry, like those of other late Paleolithic big-game hunters, contained a variety of tools such as burins (woodworking tools rather like chisels), scrapers, and borers; but blades that were formed in the shape of laurel or willow leaves and shouldered points are the implements that distinguish the Solutrean.
In the early Solutrean, unifacial points (flaked on only one side) are common. In the middle Solutrean, these are gradually replaced by laurel-leaf blades and bifacial points. Tiny blunt-backed flint blades and scrapers and single-shouldered points also occur. Bizarre implements, with notches or asymmetrical shapes, appear; these and laurel-leaf blades so fine as to have precluded their use as tools suggest the production of fine-flaked implements for purposes of luxury alone. In the late Solutrean, the willow-leaf blade (slim, with rounded ends and retouching on one side only) of extremely fine workmanship made its appearance.
Earlier this year Joseph K. Pickrell and Jonathan K. Pritchard. (“Inference of Population Splits and Mixtures from Genome-wide Allele Frequency Data,” 2012, 16) arrived at the same result using TreeMix (see below).
Originally posted by punkinworks10
In a commentary on another study,
Earlier this year Joseph K. Pickrell and Jonathan K. Pritchard. (“Inference of Population Splits and Mixtures from Genome-wide Allele Frequency Data,” 2012, 16) arrived at the same result using TreeMix (see below).
They summarized all the inferred migrations in the following list, with Russians being a proxy for Europeans receiving admixture from migrating American Indians.
Originally posted by Hanslune
My opinion is that the hypnthesis is not proven by quality of the evidence provided for tool comparison between those stones found in Europe and NA.
The plausibility of movement between Europe and NA along the Ice age sea ice
The present ambiguity in the DNA evidence
Originally posted by Byrd
Originally posted by Hanslune
My opinion is that the hypnthesis is not proven by quality of the evidence provided for tool comparison between those stones found in Europe and NA.
The plausibility of movement between Europe and NA along the Ice age sea ice
The present ambiguity in the DNA evidence
While I'm not skeptical about the possibility of people crossing from Europe into the Americas during the Ice Age, I'm skeptical about their being sufficient numbers to make any sort of impact. As far as I know, early immigrations into America could be as far back as 30k years (given the 20k date of Mesa Verde and other places)... but I don't feel I've studied cultures from that timeframe well enough to comment on the apparent dispersal patterns.
If one assumes that there will be cultural diffusion, then perhaps (if we have sufficient older artifacts) we can trace several markers through time and space from the coast to the interior and to the other coast.
Something I can look forward to studying in another four months or so. For now, other things occupy my time.
Originally posted by Byrd
While I'm not skeptical about the possibility of people crossing from Europe into the Americas during the Ice Age, I'm skeptical about their being sufficient numbers to make any sort of impact. As far as I know, early immigrations into America could be as far back as 30k years (given the 20k date of Mesa Verde and other places)... but I don't feel I've studied cultures from that timeframe well enough to comment on the apparent dispersal patterns.
Originally posted by Byrd
If one assumes that there will be cultural diffusion, then perhaps (if we have sufficient older artifacts) we can trace several markers through time and space from the coast to the interior and to the other coast.