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Daring to be Different in the Black Community

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posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by openlocks
 


Here is the thing, it is their fault. Thomas Sowell was born in the Jim Crow South, he was moved to Harlem, and never finished high school. He had a storm of bad luck and the deck was "stacked against him." He went in to the Marines, flipped the opportunity in to an education, he worked two jobs when he got out, and now he is a fellow at the Hoover Institute at Stanford University. (I forgot to mention he is also a syndicated columnist, world renowned economist, and author of many books on society and economics.)

The list of similar stories is longer than the Harry Potter series. Yes, they need role models, but when a Bill Cosby stands up they scream him down for preaching self reliance. They scream down Clarence Thomas as an Uncle Tom. I have a friend that turned his graphic design business in to a $400,000 dollar a year career. When he started volunteering in his old community as a mentor he was told to stay out. Another friend was told he was not welcome in his family because he decided to work for the federal prisons.

There are some that wish they had known a better way. Some feel that they were trapped by fate. It happens across racial lines in low income communities. However, only certain "cultures" (not just blacks) so actively fight back against their own elevation. How many times have you heard one of the people you work with describe other black people as "crabs in a barrel?"

The problem is that you are confusing what is very much an economic issue with a racial issue. I've seen the same thing you describe in rural parts of the south and Appalachia. What you're describing is generational cycles of poverty and ignorance. They are as common in the trailer parks of North Carolina as they are in the slums of Chicago.
edit on 18-7-2013 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-7-2013 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


First of all I just want to say too, as a black woman that this post disgusts me. I respect your opinion but I don't condone it. I believe that the reason for your feelings towards the Zimmerman case is primarily based off of the up bringing that you had as a youth. It's as if no one is looking at the facts here. In my opinion if Zimmerman valued his life from a so-called threat, then it makes good sense that he would follow the orders of the police and not get out of his car with a gun, pursue the threat and then try to claim self-defense/stand your ground! These are the facts. Trayvon was walking from the store at night alone in the rain...which explains why he had on a hoodie. Next, Mr. Zimmerman spots him and calls the police and proceeds to follow him. The police instruct Zimmerman not to pursue or contact the person. Zimmerman decides to ignore that instruction, gets out of his vehicle "with a gun" and ends up in a scuffle and then shoots an underage child. It's not ALL about race hun but racial profiling was a major factor...it's about Mr. Zimmerman putting himself in harms way and then actually killing someone who was unarmed, underage and only coming from a 7-11. Now Mr. Zimmerman didn't like the ass-kicking that he may or may not have received and then felt an immediate threat for his life but he didn't have to shoot him. Period. And for that he should have gotten manslaughter at the very least. However, no one volunteered to mention that Mr. Zimmerman's father is a judge or that Mr. Zimmerman has been charged with 3 counts of molestation in the past. These are key things to consider in a murder trial in order to conclude the motive. But people will give someone like Michael Vick a prison sentence for fighting dogs and drop all charges for Zimmerman after he literally killed someone due to profiling? C'mon now use your brain.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by rockybaby33
 


My support of George has to do with my upbringing? How? The two have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

You can't fathom that I think independenly and am not always a cheerleader for 'the black person', when that black person is in the wrong. Surely 'the white man' has got his foot on our necks and trying to hold us down, isn't that right?

Typical liberal ideology...

No, Sorry. I don't follow the 'black script'. And once you take your recorder off of play and start thinking for yourself, you will put the script down too,

Sistah.


edit on 18-7-2013 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-7-2013 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by rockybaby33
reply to post by ButterCookie
 


First of all I just want to say too, as a black woman that this post disgusts me. I respect your opinion but I don't condone it. I believe that the reason for your feelings towards the Zimmerman case is primarily based off of the up bringing that you had as a youth. It's as if no one is looking at the facts here. In my opinion if Zimmerman valued his life from a so-called threat, then it makes good sense that he would follow the orders of the police and not get out of his car with a gun, pursue the threat and then try to claim self-defense/stand your ground! These are the facts. Trayvon was walking from the store at night alone in the rain...which explains why he had on a hoodie. Next, Mr. Zimmerman spots him and calls the police and proceeds to follow him. The police instruct Zimmerman not to pursue or contact the person. Zimmerman decides to ignore that instruction, gets out of his vehicle "with a gun" and ends up in a scuffle and then shoots an underage child. It's not ALL about race hun but racial profiling was a major factor...it's about Mr. Zimmerman putting himself in harms way and then actually killing someone who was unarmed, underage and only coming from a 7-11. Now Mr. Zimmerman didn't like the ass-kicking that he may or may not have received and then felt an immediate threat for his life but he didn't have to shoot him. Period. And for that he should have gotten manslaughter at the very least. However, no one volunteered to mention that Mr. Zimmerman's father is a judge or that Mr. Zimmerman has been charged with 3 counts of molestation in the past. These are key things to consider in a murder trial in order to conclude the motive. But people will give someone like Michael Vick a prison sentence for fighting dogs and drop all charges for Zimmerman after he literally killed someone due to profiling? C'mon now use your brain.


While I agree that he should have gotten manslaughter, it was the very definition of manslaughter, I disagree that you should be disgusted by the opinion of someone who affects you in no way whatsoever.
The US justice system is renowned for its bias, and serious problems. Hell you are still murdering the murderers on death row, and with the failure of justice to prevail in the terrible US system the tragedy is that many of them are innocent.
As an outsider looking in, I can see the usa rapidly becoming a modern version of the nazi state, and here in the UK we really arent far behind.
Instead of being disgusted and offended, why not stop Trayvons death being in vain, and bring something positive out of this extremely divisive and media driven circus, its funny how that when a government is in trouble with many scandals, the media drives the common man apart, and says "hey look at him over there, hes the bad guy" while they are the real criminals. I dont see much talk here of all the scandals that were massive news just a few weeks ago.
Please just stop and ask yourself for a second..... "am I being emotion?" or "am I being logical?"
Decisions based in emotion are misguided and have no basis in logic.
Instead of screaming revenge, we need to make sure this sort of thing never happens again.
As this unsustainable system crumbles around us, if we dont start working together pretty soon there will be many more tragedies much worse than this one.
What I find disgusting is the way people are so easily controlled by base emotions into doing some of the worse things to other people.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


We were a mixed race couple. The racism directed toward us became so violent and intolerable that it destroyed our marriage.

I hope you never have to experience what we experienced.

ahhh.........Texas



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


Whoa... I don't even know how you got that came to that conclusion in her post.

As a black man, and as a liberal (the egalitarian, meritocratic type, not the social democratic American liberal) I don't stick to the 'black script'. What is that, if anything at all? The stereotypical 'black script' that I'm assuming you're talking about is far removed from textbook liberalism.

So no, blaming the 'white man' standing on your neck is not typical liberal ideology. That's a huge generalisation since you're ignoring many liberals and even misappropriating people of completely different viewpoints.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by rockybaby33
 


So you are saying when we see a young black male in a hoodie in the neighborhood, we need to stay locked in our cars? We need to be afraid of them? Yeah, that is really a productive thing to be pushing


That is exactly how the hoods turned to total crap, no one stood up, and no one could really stand up if they wanted to once the drug and guns game picked up. I don't know about you, but I will never be afraid to walk my neighborhood. I will never let my community be overrun with criminal elements. Not so long as I am still breathing.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


Hey, I don't want anyone to be afraid of me. In fact, making friends with total strangers is a favourite pastime of mine!

I'd just rather not be followed, you know... with a gun pointed at my back? It's a little disconcerting, is all.

Not everyone in a hoodie is a criminal, and that's the point. If you want to protect your neighbourhood, surely you could simply say, "Hello, good evening!" from a distance if you really want to approach a suspicious person that's unarmed.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by ihavenoaccount
 


Personally, the only people I am scared of are cops, and I don't have to deal with their type here. If I see a stranger walking, I always find out what they are up to, I am not a dick about it though. They know I am armed though, I open carry, so no one will really give me no problems, or at least no one has yet.

I just don't understand the mentality of the people that claim he needed to stay in the car. Like I said, the reason good neighborhoods turn to crap, is because citizens let them.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by olaru12
reply to post by ButterCookie
 


We were a mixed race couple. The racism directed toward us became so violent and intolerable that it destroyed our marriage.

I hope you never have to experience what we experienced.

ahhh.........Texas



Shoulda moved to Arkansas, much more tolerable here and you see that kinda thing all the time so a lot of people pretty much don't care, least in my area. I was in Wal-Mart a couple weeks ago with a bi-racial couple, black guy, white woman and the black guy made some sort of rude comment about my fat wife (who is pregnant) and his wife flat out told him "stop being such an asshole, God you are so judgmental" loud enough for several people to hear. I said a silent thank you to her, if my wife had heard the comment she would have burst into tears and that would have made me angry and the situation could have turned ugly.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Baddguy
 





our culture was stripped from our ancestors when they were brought over as slaves and when Christianity was forced down on us


Don't try to blame the white man, a lot of you try that. What got black people in America was all the tribal wars going on in Africa along the gold coast hundreds of years ago, and the losing tribes were enslaved by other black Africans and then sold to the Portuguese who then sold them to the American colonies. Christianity was accepted amoung the slaves because Jesus is the equalizer and in him there are neither slave nor free, jew nor gentile, man nor woman and all are equal in Christ Jesus. You're toting your erroneous biased opinion for fact, and you're completely wrong. You seek to place blame on others, but if you want to blame someone
because that African culture you love so much is what got you folks enslaved in the first place.




lol i didnt see this until today..what kept my African culture that i love so much oppressed was your great equalizer Jesus..



blame your own race,
my race is the human race so i do blame them and your Jesus



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


Huh... fair play man. Although, I'm British and an idiot (not mutually inclusive of course) so I'd probably walk up to you and ask really noobish questions about your gun.


Of course that is like a one in a million chance. Agreed, there was no need for Zimmerman to stay in the car... his approach was questionable, but yeah, the staying in the car thing...



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by rockybaby33
 





It's as if no one is looking at the facts here. In my opinion if Zimmerman valued his life from a so-called threat, then it makes good sense that he would follow the orders of the police and not get out of his car with a gun, pursue the threat and then try to claim self-defense/stand your ground! These are the facts.


It is sad that you seem so concerned about facts yet every single thing you just claimed to have happened is false. You need to first learn the facts before accusing others of not looking at them.




The police instruct Zimmerman not to pursue or contact the person.

False




Zimmerman decides to ignore that instruction, gets out of his vehicle

False again.




Zimmerman has been charged with 3 counts of molestation in the past.

False yet again.





C'mon now use your brain.

That what I wish you would do.

It looks like you are either completely ignorant of the facts or you are purposely pushing lies I challenge you to back up your claims but I already know you can't.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 

Dude HE initiated. His mission was to OBSERVE only.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by ButterCookie
Right.

The 'Democratic Plantation' is easy to get on, but hard to get off.

I also want to address the issue of "more whites on welfare than blacks"; blacks only make up about 13% of the population. So with that in mind, doesn't it only appear that there are more whites on welfare because there are more whites in America in period?


More in numbers, yes, but not in percentage. Nicely addressed.


Originally posted by ButterCookie
*snip*
See, with a lot of liberals (no offense to anyone, from my observation) they don't even recognize their blatant racism. They feel that because they have 'black friends' or don't use the N word that they are not racist, when they truly are- they feel that BECAUSE you are a specific race, there are automatic barriers in which you are not in control of. This comes in the form of

(black liberals)

"Slavery is the reason that we are full of hate"
"The 'man' is holding us back"
"Quit acting 'white' [ educated, speaking proper English]

(white liberals)

"I am so sorry that my people have harmed you 400 yrs ago. Let me support you in any way I can.
"Don't blame him/ her for their criminal behavior/ this is because their people were oppressed"
"They (blacks) can't help themselves; therefore we (whites) are obligated to take care of them (welfare, social programs)


edit on 17-7-2013 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)


That sums up the basis if the issue SO well! The more I read your posts, the more I see that I like! You are clearly a very smart lady, and I am glad to add you to my ATS friend list.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by Grimpachi
 

Dude HE initiated. His mission was to OBSERVE only.


What mission? Driving through his neighborhood to do some shopping? If you refer to the NW program, then do yourself a favor, and listen to the sworn testimony of the dispatcher that spoke to him that night. This man stated plainly that, based on TWO comments to let them know if the guy did anything else, followed by asking if George could tell which way he went, it would be possible for George to believe that was a request to follow.


Originally posted by cavtrooper7
He was told not to proceed and he did.Its wrong.


No, he wasn't. See the same testimony I mentioned above. A dispatcher isn't allowed to tell a person what to do.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by CSpitta
I took some time away from this board/thread and return to see this thread has gotten WORSE!

Whites claiming they were enslaved too....
Other minorities foaming at the bit to express their oppression...

Why is it that Blacks suffering in this institution of White Supremacy is ALWAYS marginalized?

I applaud all whites who've express themselves eloquently with facts and welcome all the racists to stop being so scared. All the hate you harbor is indicative of why you're HATED throughout the world.

And if one more font talks about handouts without mentioning that WHITE AMERICANS are the #1 beneficiary of food stamps...


Do you have an address for this "institution of White Supremacy"? I have decades of stuff I never got, that is apparently "owed" to me!
*sarcasm off*

Why is it that any wrong on anyone other than blacks is marginalized by some? Do you really not see the hypocrisy there?



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:53 PM
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I am truly saddened by this thread. Not by the OP or the opinions expressed herein but, by the level of vitriol that was lobbed in this woman's direction for daring to attempt a discussion about something that was clearly weighing heavily on her heart.

As adults we should be able to talk about these things. We should be able to express our opinions in a civil manner. There is nothing wrong with differing opinions. If we all felt the same way, this world would be a very boring place. What IS wrong is that we let this entire thing become one divisive mess. The name calling and entirely outrageous insults are absolutely appalling and I'm shocked that grown and well educated people are behaving in this manner.

Is this really the kind of world we want to live in?



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by rockybaby33
*snip*I believe that the reason for your feelings towards the Zimmerman case is primarily based off of the up bringing that you had as a youth. It's as if no one is looking at the facts here.


From reading her posts on the trial thread, I can assure you that ButterCookie does indeed look at the facts. So do the rest that support the verdict.


Originally posted by rockybaby33
In my opinion if Zimmerman valued his life from a so-called threat, then it makes good sense that he would follow the orders of the police and not get out of his car with a gun, pursue the threat and then try to claim self-defense/stand your ground!


Your opinion isn't based on the reality. The threat came after he exited his vehicle. There was no order from police.


Originally posted by rockybaby33
These are the facts. Trayvon was walking from the store at night alone in the rain...which explains why he had on a hoodie.


No, he was walking to the home of his dad's fiance, where he was staying since his mother sent him from his home for yet another school suspension. He was also taking a LONG time for this walk. The distance is, from what I have read, .6 miles. My own son walked, as a teen, 1.5 miles each way to a store, and back, in under an hour, yet Martin took close to an hour to reach the complex? This is proven by the 7-11 security tapes, and the time of the Zimmerman call.


Originally posted by rockybaby33
Next, Mr. Zimmerman spots him and calls the police and proceeds to follow him. The police instruct Zimmerman not to pursue or contact the person. Zimmerman decides to ignore that instruction, gets out of his vehicle "with a gun" and ends up in a scuffle and then shoots an underage child.


That isn't what happened. Zimmerman called about someone acting suspiciously, and wasn't even sure of the race of the person at first. He did as he was supposed to do, and observed the person, reporting details. There was NO instruction not to follow. The dispatcher cannot give orders. Plus, as has been explained MANY times, the dispatcher stated that, based on his directions (twice) to let him know if the guy did anything else, and his asking if Zimmerman knew which was the guy went, Zimmerman could have taken that to mean get out and check. After those comments is when he exited his vehicle. Plus, exiting his car is LEGAL. This was his neighborhood. Why would he be required to stay inside a car, just because he saw someone walking? When the dispatcher realized he was out of the car, he stated, and I quote, "We don't need you to do that." This was a suggestion, a recommendation, for George's safety, and he immediately agreed. Remember, martin was out of sight before Zimmerman even got out of his vehicle. According to Martin's friend, he was back to where he was staying, which is not where the incident occurred. The "scuffle" as you call it was an assault, by Martin.


Originally posted by rockybaby33
It's not ALL about race hun but racial profiling was a major factor...it's about Mr. Zimmerman putting himself in harms way and then actually killing someone who was unarmed, underage and only coming from a 7-11.


The only racist comment proven was from Martin. If you believe that exiting your car in your neighborhood means you are at fault for attacks, well, I recommend moving. Martin w
as armed with fists, and concrete. Underage doesn't give one a license to commit a felony assault, for which, I must add, he would have been tried as an adult.


Originally posted by rockybaby33
Now Mr. Zimmerman didn't like the ass-kicking that he may or may not have received and then felt an immediate threat for his life but he didn't have to shoot him.


You don't know what he did or didn't have to do. Legally, you can use deadly force to prevent serious bodily harm or death. You don't have to wait till you have suffered serious bodily harm to do so. Shooting someone who is beating you like that is justified.


Originally posted by rockybaby33
And for that he should have gotten manslaughter at the very least.


No, self defense isn't manslaughter.


Originally posted by rockybaby33
However, no one volunteered to mention that Mr. Zimmerman's father is a judge


Not relevant.


Originally posted by rockybaby33
or that Mr. Zimmerman has been charged with 3 counts of molestation in the past.


Not true.


Originally posted by rockybaby33
But people will give someone like Michael Vick a prison sentence for fighting dogs and drop all charges for Zimmerman after he literally killed someone due to profiling?


Vick committed a crime. Zimmerman didn't. Even the F.B.I. found no evidence for profiling or racism from Zimmerman.



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 12:07 AM
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i grew up around hispanics, koreans, hindu's, and blacks and as a child was just "playing with other kids"

But as I got older cliques began to from based on race, clothes, class, jocks, nerds, etc....

So I became a lone wolf, an island of one, not part of anyone's group.......and you want to know what happened? Because I shunned everything and did not label and was Me by Myself, that's when others began to flock to me and be around me, from all the different groups........ which is really surprising......I became like a Benneton ad of diversity and people would drop all the BS around me.......

I hear where u r coming from OP.....but still, sadly the typical stereotypes are for the most part true..... in my culture, alcoholism runs rampant and I see it all the time....even my own flesh yearns for the bottle and I fight it by going years without......



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