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Daring to be Different in the Black Community

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posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 01:14 PM
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Wow, a lot of excellent conversation in this thread!

Also a lot of blatant ignorance and closed mindedness on display as well...

Hard to say if accidental or on purpose, hmm.

I think it's wonderful how such a topic can bring out the best and worst in people.

For those of you who say ButterCookie is the one who has left her culture, you have yet to be able to define what that culture is; indeed, I do believe that one of you even said that it could not be defined. If that is the case, then how can you say that she has left the undefinable?

She hasn't kicked the bucket down the hill or pissed in it, she's told you "there is no bucket!"




posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by OneManArmy
 


It sounds to me like the point is that most of the "western" countries were built from genocide and slavery, yet no one, not even the africans are jumping ship and leaving because of it.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Baddguy
 





our culture was stripped from our ancestors when they were brought over as slaves and when Christianity was forced down on us


Don't try to blame the white man, a lot of you try that. What got black people in America was all the tribal wars going on in Africa along the gold coast hundreds of years ago, and the losing tribes were enslaved by other black Africans and then sold to the Portuguese who then sold them to the American colonies. Christianity was accepted amoung the slaves because Jesus is the equalizer and in him there are neither slave nor free, jew nor gentile, man nor woman and all are equal in Christ Jesus. You're toting your erroneous biased opinion for fact, and you're completely wrong. You seek to place blame on others, but if you want to blame someone blame your own race, because that African culture you love so much is what got you folks enslaved in the first place.




Wow...BRAVE post!!

And you are ABSOLUTELY correct, and this helps explains most of my own belief system changes.

I am interested in seeing if anyone will attempt to deconstruct this argument.


It's found in Portuguese captain's logs, they recorded their dealings with the various tribes along the coast. The losing tribes were considered weak, it was very much a "strong survive and perish the weak" type culture, which is why Christianity flourished amoung the enslaved losing tribes, because in the Holy Bible it is written the meek shall inherit the earth. After the Civil War the freed slaves were given a choice, to stay in America or return to Africa, many of them chose to return to their ancestral homeland, and founded the country of Liberia on the Gold Coast of Africa.
edit on 17-7-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 



For those of you who say ButterCookie is the one who has left her culture, you have yet to be able to define what that culture is; indeed, I do believe that one of you even said that it could not be defined. If that is the case, then how can you say that she has left the undefinable?

She hasn't kicked the bucket down the hill or pissed in it, she's told you "there is no bucket!"


As I mentioned before, the African culture is one based on tribal warfare and slavery and that is what got Africans into America in the first place. Now take a look at african americans today, doing the exact same thing they were doing in Africa. Gang warfare representing tribes, black on black crime with drive by shootings, drugs and organized crime, prostitution because wherever you find drug dealers and pimps, you will find drug addicts and drug addicts will resort to prostitution to pay their habit if they're females, and robbery if there are males. I'm not saying all are like that, some of them realize what is going on and choose to be different but the vast majority of Black America is falling back into what they were doing back in Africa centuries ago. History repeats itself and we learn this in the bible in Ecclesiastes 1.

Buttercookie, bless her soul has decided to remove herself from that equation. Any sane person cannot thrive on chaos, strife and a culture built around tribal gang warfare.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


That is fascinating history.

I remember the first time I stumbled up some of the truths of the Slave Trade; I was stunned. In public school (liberal of course), I was only taught that slavery happened as a result of evil Europeans who went to Africa, forcing Africans onto their ships for labor in the states. I never knew that it was the African kings and queens who were ultimately responsible for the slave trade.

Blacks often imagine the slave trade to have occured as if the Europeans just waltzed on the African shoreline, pushing blacks onto the ships- no permission needed.

The sad part is that this genocidal action still holds standing in modern time; we push ourselves into poverty through crime, violence, and low education. But just like we want to bame Europeans then we want to blame them now.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Thank you, that was a very well put together reply to my query.

Yes, she has distanced herself from the underlying memetic hatred that has propagated into today's black culture. It's these base drives that are manipulated by the string pullers, but they're not only present in black culture.

If you note, throughout history it is those who have put themselves in charge,whether it be through conquest or through a "vote" that commit the most atrocities.

Slaves were sold by kings, queens, tribal chiefs. Wars are fought on the instigation of national leaders, dungeons in lords castles, CEOs with insane compensation packages, mafia bosses, gang leaders, it doesn't matter the number of people one is at the apex position of, it would seem that they all have a predatory drive and a need to place themselves above others.

Do these two characteristics go hand in hand?

The desire to lead and the desire to take from others no matter the expense?

If so, humans as a species needs to rethink its entire idea of what "civilization" is.
edit on 17-7-2013 by jadedANDcynical because: typo



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Thank you, that was a very well put together reply to my query.

Yes, she has distanced herself from the underlying memetic hatred that has propagated into today's black culture. It's these base drives that are manipulated by the string pullers, but they're not only present in black culture.

edit on 17-7-2013 by jadedANDcynical because: typo


But she is still liable to suffer racism because of the colour of her skin. That is the reality that we live under. We can be rockers, hippies, veteran or anything else that is different and still be attacked because of skin colour.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Thank you, that was a very well put together reply to my query.

Yes, she has distanced herself from the underlying memetic hatred that has propagated into today's black culture. It's these base drives that are manipulated by the string pullers, but they're not only present in black culture.

If you note, throughout history it is those who have put themselves in charge,whether it be through conquest or through a "vote" that commit the most atrocities.

Slaves were sold by kings, queens, tribal chiefs. Wars are fought on the instigation of national leaders, dungeons in lords castles, CEOs with insane compensation packages, mafia bosses, gang leaders, it doesn't matter the number of people one is at the apex position of, it would seem that they all have a predatory drive and a need to place themselves above others.

Do these two characteristics go hand in hand?

The desire to lead and the desire to take from others no matter the expense?

If so, humans as a species needs to rethink its entire idea of what "civilization" is.
edit on 17-7-2013 by jadedANDcynical because: typo


"power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" and this is why the positive coming together of all races under the banner of the united nations although is a nobel and good thing, the result caused by the human ability to be corrupted by power will continue till our race ends. So the centralization of any power is the last thing the human race needs.
Yes mankind does need to come together in the name of freedom and the decentralization of any power will prevent any "control" structure getting ideas above its station. but then corruption will still exist, but its growth and power will be checked. Of course it will only be a matter of time before people will become complacent and take their freedom for granted and they will give away what was gained and we will be right back here again.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Thank you, that was a very well put together reply to my query.

Yes, she has distanced herself from the underlying memetic hatred that has propagated into today's black culture. It's these base drives that are manipulated by the string pullers, but they're not only present in black culture.

If you note, throughout history it is those who have put themselves in charge,whether it be through conquest or through a "vote" that commit the most atrocities.

Slaves were sold by kings, queens, tribal chiefs. Wars are fought on the instigation of national leaders, dungeons in lords castles, CEOs with insane compensation packages, mafia bosses, gang leaders, it doesn't matter the number of people one is at the apex position of, it would seem that they all have a predatory drive and a need to place themselves above others.

Do these two characteristics go hand in hand?

The desire to lead and the desire to take from others no matter the expense?

If so, humans as a species needs to rethink its entire idea of what "civilization" is.
edit on 17-7-2013 by jadedANDcynical because: typo


All of those things play a part in it all, but you can boil it down to this. There are 2 types of people walking this earth. Givers and Takers, and there are more Takers than there are Givers. In a "Strong survive and perish the weak" civilization, everyone wants to be on the top. It's a cut throat world, and most people want more than their fare share. Secular education plays a part in it, promoting Darwinism which basically teaches that it's ok to step on the backs of others if you want to survive and be at the top of the "food chain" because Evolution says "the strong survive and perish the weak". Want to know who else taught these things? Adolf Hitler and look what he did, not just with his Nazi warmachine but his eugenics programs too. So now we have all these people running around being led by the nose with their base desires, and suddenly the human race begins to resemble a zoo of warring different colored monkeys throwing poop at eachother and beating their chests.
edit on 17-7-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


This puts me in mind of The Dosadi Experiment

Ma,es one wonder if we aren't merely some other civilization's sea monkey tank.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Tiger5

Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Thank you, that was a very well put together reply to my query.

Yes, she has distanced herself from the underlying memetic hatred that has propagated into today's black culture. It's these base drives that are manipulated by the string pullers, but they're not only present in black culture.

edit on 17-7-2013 by jadedANDcynical because: typo


But she is still liable to suffer racism because of the colour of her skin. That is the reality that we live under. We can be rockers, hippies, veteran or anything else that is different and still be attacked because of skin colour.


Then people need to stop preaching hate. One of the greatest role models of all time is Jesus Christ. Take his sermon on the Mount of Olives in the New Testament Matthew chapter 5, it says it all. We can step out and we can be different, and we need to teach our children good things and not bad things. Our sins (wrong doings) not only destroy us, they destroy our children too. Stop using hateful words against eachother, stop the stealing and the murdering, stop the drugs. It is written in the bible that a house divided against itself cannot stand, and this is true. If people can stop hating eachother, and teaching it to their children and teaching their children evil things, then maybe in 70 or 80 years when the old generations have died out, maybe something new can grow out of the ashes.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 



(black liberals)

"Slavery is the reason that we are full of hate"
"The 'man' is holding us back"
"Quit acting 'white' [ educated, speaking proper English]

(white liberals)

"I am so sorry that my people have harmed you 400 yrs ago. Let me support you in any way I can.
"Don't blame him/ her for their criminal behavior/ this is because their people were oppressed"
"They (blacks) can't help themselves; therefore we (whites) are obligated to take care of them (welfare, social programs)


Liberalism is a neurosis. According to them it's ok to murder an unborn baby because the parents were irresponsible and performed an action (sex) created for the sole purpose of procreating, and treated it like a toy or recreation. So then the baby is punished for the wrong doing of the parents., paying for their mistake with it's own life. Liberalism is a nice way of saying Anarchy. Liberals want to create government programs to fix what they messed up, and then they give the government even more power which takes the power from people like us, because the government has to keep creating programs to fix it's own screw ups so it's a never ending cycle.

Take that nutbag in Connecticut who murdered all those kindergartners last winter, the reason he was able to do that was because Liberals whined about mentally unstable people being remanded to reformatories and complained that it was wrong to house them in state operated hospitals, so now crazy folks can walk around and when they forget to take their meds, they go on shooting sprees and kill 30 little kids. All thanks to Liberals. They screw up everything they touch with little thought about the long term ramifications or their hair brained schemes.
edit on 17-7-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by openlocks
Since then, income and education disparities have only widened. 56% of Blacks drop out of school by the 10th grade. 94% don't go to college. 54% of Black males are in the judicial system...


Well thats there fault now.

Blacks are the only ones who can stop this.

I cant nor can my white family, nor can the asian family that lives down the road. The goverment can only do so much too without going the other way and discriminating against whites.

So the ball is in your court now.

If you drop the ball dont blame the rest of us.
edit on 17-7-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)


Their fault? Look, it seems some of you refuse to accept a certain portion of history, while propagating another portion. I cannot do that. Not only is that dishonest to myself, but it is inconsiderate of other peoples struggles whom I love. Now, with that being said, I fully agree that the Black community needs to step up and do whatever is needed to uplift and heal their people. But at the same time, there are factions in the system (which is still very much bias towards Whites, whether you want to admit it or not) that are making that VERY difficult.

I was a part of a process a few years ago to create a school that was directed towards educating troubled kids in urban areas. Leaders across the nation in education helped put the proposal together and formulate a system of education surrounding the Socratic and IB methods of education. We brought together thousands of people from the community who all supported this school proposal. Yet whether is had the green light or not was placed in the hands of 7 school board members whom were all affluent White people. Long story short, they shot us down, and the gap between kids of Color and Whites in education continues to widen.

So you can say, "It's there fault!", but all you are showing yourself to be is a arm chair critic who is ignorant to the true realities of what is going on. These issue's are VERY complex and it is going to take ALL of our commitment to heal them. These are the facts. Accept them or don't accept them. But sitting on your high horse and talking down to others does none of us any good. I ask some of you to humble yourselves a bit, you're not perfect and will never be perfect.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by openlocks

Add that to the experience Black Americans have had in this country, and it is fairly easy to see why each is at where they are at. Further, what do you say about Native Americans, who are nearly non-existent within our society? Would you attribute that to racial superiority by other races over them? Or would you say they suffered through an experience that really no one else has, basically being systematically wiped off of their inherent lands?


You do have a point there, but at what point does the past fade? Especially when you are generations away from anything dealing with it. My family has history in Nazi Germany where some died due to Jewish mixed heritage. My grand parents escape and came to America where my grandfather committed suicide because they lost everything during the depression. My mom and aunt even picked dandelions to make soup to survive. Both grew up to be very successful.

This takes me to my point that I feel the more subsistence a group gets the worst off they become. This all has nothing to do with superiority, but due to circumstances and generations that become minimalist since they do not need to do a single thing to survive. Those who break away from this type of life do well and typically have a good life no matter what ethnic back ground they come from.

If a ethnic group tends to be poor and have huge social problems you will also see that they have a high subsistence percentage too and so once again it has nothing to do with anyone group is superior over another in anyway for all are acceptable to this same situation.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:04 AM
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It's clear to me that you're not black at all or at least wish you weren't. If you are, which I personally believe your not, this is self hatred. All I have to say is if you think you will be fully accepted by most of the white community, let alone the justice system your are surely mistaken. Your family is right to disown you and you should be ashamed of the words your speaking.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


I'm sorry about the falling out you had with your father. Perhaps soon, water will go under the bridge, and things will return to normalcy.

Your situation reflects mine, though I am white.
I get accused of being "uppity" or purposely using words they can't understand. My views are seen as selfish and too independent. For me, it's not where you come from, but where you are going that matters
I keep getting the "NINA*" sign brought up in conversation, as if it were still around today. For my family, believe it or not, the bane of their lives was a bad crop of potatoes. They are STILL hanging onto that, to this day. That and Oliver Cromwell, whose been dead for so long, most people don't know who he is.
All of my living relatives were born in America! How can something that happened an ocean away and a century ago effect their fate so badly?


You asked why some people, my family included, get so emotionally stirred up about some issues.
It's so easy to summon emotion, and so difficult sometimes to reason. To be honest, from my experience, my family sometimes just doesn't want to think, but they want to be involved vicariously in a situation, so they allow others, pundits, community leaders, newsmen, to think for them. Goebbels directed a whole country with media blitzes and the right words that summoned emotional responses, relying on herd mentality to carry it further. Each of those groups has an agenda, most of that agenda is to stay on top, get money, and have power. They use envy and covetousness as a weapon to further themselves.


Honestly, if most people looked at what they had, they could see that they were happy with their lot. It's envy and covetousness that makes most people sad and angry at "the Other". Sometimes people need an excuse for why they didn't peruse their happiness to it's Xanadu conclusion, not realizing that happiness is a way of being, not a destination

It's hard to be rational sometimes, it's a tough job for some people, especially in this day and age where feelings are touted over reason. Logic is hard to teach- recall that Spock was often mocked for his cold logic, but Kirk's wild emotionalism was applauded.


*NINA- "No Irish Need Apply."



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by zomba44
It's clear to me that you're not black at all or at least wish you weren't. If you are, which I personally believe your not, this is self hatred. All I have to say is if you think you will be fully accepted by most of the white community, let alone the justice system your are surely mistaken. Your family is right to disown you and you should be ashamed of the words your speaking.



"That's just ignorance." -Michael Jackson

Yes. The OP is in fact a black woman.
Met her IRL.
Confirmed.
So blam.

Not everyone on ATS is a race baiting hate troll.

Did you make up that account just to come in here and be a disturber of fecal matter?

Is any one individual fully or mostly accepted in any community? There can only be so many superstars.

The only color the justice system gives a damn about comes from a mint.

"Disown." Speaking of slave mentality...



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


By "subsistence", I assume you mean welfare, correct? If so, I would agree with you. It is a very real phenomena, where one can become dependent upon the help of others and have their motivation crushed. A few things to that point though... I grew up on the South Side of Chicago, in an entirely Black community that was/is riddled with poverty, drugs and gangs. This is the demographic of Blacks we are talking about, obviously. The greater majority of them received no State support, and of those that did, it equated to nothing more than $180/mo in food stamps for a family of 4 or greater, and in some cases for those who lived in the projects, another $175/mo in rent for a family of 4 or greater. That is $355/mo for a family of 4 or more, clearly not enough to survive. The majority of these people support themselves in two ways, the older folks work 2 or 3 very low paying jobs, and the younger folks make their money on "the streets".

Look, there are many things to be critical about within every sector of our society. And many of the things within the communities we are talking about, such as drugs and gangs, are very real and to be concerned about. All I am saying is there are also very real causation's to these issues, many that are "out of their hands" so to speak, and if someone is concerned about these communities it is important to understand the entirety of their struggles and plight. Simply saying, "It's all on them", is not helpful, honest or realistic. The fact of the matter is, it is on all of us. And further, sure there is some animosity against White America in these communities (not all unwarrented, imo), but for the most part these people don't "hate" Whites for the past, and they do understand their responsibility in all of this. There is a deep sense of despair and hopelessness in these communities though which often gets expressed in very dark and negative ways.

I've had 40 year old, life long, gangbangers break down and cry in front of me when we have these discussions. They truly want a better life but do not know how to go about attaining it. Often I am as every bit of critical of these people as many of you are. The difference is, I am metaphorically "holding their hand" when I do it. Which is why threads like this frustrate me so much. They come off as just apathetic whine-fests of judgmental persecution, without any reflection upon the grander nuances of this mess, or any real compassion for these people. They are suffering as much, or more-so, as anyone else in this country is.

Peace brother, may we all find greater understanding about ourselves and others.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 04:49 AM
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It was really nice reading your post, not many people talk about things like you do. I sympathize with anyone that faces racism today, I do not desire to ignore that such issues still exist, but on the other hand, you give a different type of perspective, one that I do not hear often.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:19 AM
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Thank you for making the effort to share this.

We are all being given MAXIMUM opportunities to put ourselves on display right now and this thread is a powerful magnet for revealing each of our natures.

Best to you in your continued effort to resist becoming someone you are not.
edit on 18-7-2013 by ErgoTheEgo because: (no reason given)




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