Daring to be Different in the Black Community

I'm not sure that she was denying the fact that hate breeds hatred, which you so eloquently pointed out...her main point was that she has been met with scorn from within her own family for not towing the 'company line'.

That in itself, is pure ignorance, regardless of the circumstances. No one should be calling their daughter an Uncle Tom.

reply to post by MaryStillToe


History can explain why people may have become racist and hateful and resentful.

But it cannot justify it.

That works for pretty much everyone when you boil it down.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by MaryStillToe

 

It's perfectly fine for you to say that you feel your father is racist or you've come across black people in Memphis that embraced segregation, but generalizing every black person and every black community across the country is pretty ignorant and narrow minded.

But she didn't generalize it....it's your lack of understanding what was written.

Thread Title: Daring to be Different in the Black Community

First sentence: "As a black woman, I have faced ostracism from the black community for several reasons"

I am assuming that you know how to read, so it should be obvious to see that she is generalizing. Maybe she should have said "My Black Community" or "within My Black Family" to provide the proper context for her own personal experiences.

What does " Black Community" mean to you? Please tell me where "the Black Community" is located and how many people live there.

Originally posted by MaryStillToe

Originally posted by napayshni57
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Being a blonde haired white woman made me feel like a poster child for hatred. I do have some really dear friends that are black. One of the first black friends I met came from the state of Washington. I asked her if it was just me or was it different down here with blacks and whites. She said she didn't understand it either. She'd never seen so much hatred like many of the blacks seem to have because of a persons skin color.

I think the perspective you offered is great and I hope I can help explain why attitudes and behavior can be at extreme opposites among different black communities.

Black people who experienced extreme hate and hostility or are still living around hateful and unwelcoming white communities have learned to hate back. At face value, they can't differentiate between nice white people and bad white people. Based on their experiences, they know that most white people from their area do not like them or want to be around them. As a person from the north, I was shocked to learn they still have segregated proms so its not hard to see they are reacting to their environment.

Do people really expect a person to let go of hate and mistrust when they are still being exposed to unfairness and lack of acceptance? It's logical to think that they should realize not all white people are bad, but perspective and fears are not easy to change.

A friend of mine knows a woman who took in foster children who were abused for about 3 years. The children's biological mother would lock them in the room for days and wouldn't give them any food. Over time, the children learned to hide food in their room so that they would have something to eat when they were locked back in again. Once they got to the foster home, they continued doing the same thing. It took the foster mom 8 years to convince all the the kids that they didn't need to hide food anymore. Despite good treatment, they held on to the mistrust, as it's a reasonable human response to negative experiences.

In the future, if you find yourself surrounded by hateful black communities, look at the history of the area and learn about the surrounding communities. I can guarantee you there is something to be found.

I would like to dare ButterCookie to be different and actually do some research on this and see if areas where her parents were raised or places like Memphis actually have some history that affects why the people feel the way they do. Also,she should offer some ideas that might help improve the situation instead of just ranting about it (there is actually a section for that here on ATS).

Prove that you are a cut above the rest by presenting information that is worthy of discussion, instead of starting these generic and one-dimensional threads.

You're shame and racism shine brightly.

Buttercookie, I hope many more read this thread and get encouragement out of it. I know many of Black folk that get labeled "Uncle Toms" and I find it disgusting.

All of you attacking Buttercookie, I'm appalled at you. You should be ashamed at yourselves. She is one individual that can think for herself, you all are just jealous of her for doing so. Your displays of the "herd mentality" is very showing in this thread. Good job

There are obviously black people who are the same as yourself, but I know first hand how it is difficult to overcome expectation in a community that will mostly exist in poor deprived areas where education is near on lost and many so called community leaders and those from outside wish to continue the victim mentality for their own agendas. The people are angry and having years of being told from within and outside, that it is to do with the actions of "the white man", that is now used as the continual excuse for the ill that many face every day, without seeing that it is simply used to keep them in that state.

I certainly congratulate and admire you for being one to rise above this, especially being a black woman who would be looked down upon even more so for such views, but you see if for what it is, as much as many will scream "racist" at me for saying such a thing, you are a minority within the community and that's the reality.

There are so many things that are against black communities, or indeed any who live in poor areas, but this whole race thing needs to be lifted, because in today's world all the issue of race is doing is continuing the enslavement of black people who will allow themselves to be enslaved under it. Black people in America need to ditch the whole African American BS, you are American, end of. Education needs to start at home but so too does a sense of worth and responsibility. The areas may be trash, but are the areas trash or are the people making the area trash? Government policy is BS, this is why people need to rise above it, learn to read and write, something which as unreal as it sounds, seems to be lost to many in deprived areas.

Black people shouldn't be emotionally protesting against the verdict of one case that the media have told them is about race simply to feed on the emotion, they should be protesting about the lack of good education and training in their areas. Black people should not be protesting at isolated incidents, but at the lack of investment within the community. Black people shouldn't be protesting at the actions of police officers, but protesting at the lack of action within their community to prevent young black people falling in to a life of crime and the condemnation of those who do undertake criminal activities. Black people should not be celebrating Obama, but protesting at their lives being no different now to what they were before his term.

I have a dream when I no longer refer to black people as such, just people who have been used to divide and keep divided an entire nation. The same for America is the same for all the West, don't let them divide and create conflict, when the real issues are issues that affect every common man, woman and child in all our countries, regardless of race.

Well done OP for rising above it, but so many, especially within the black community need to wake up as well and rise above the enslavement that they just cannot see before them.

Glad to see empowered blacks who dont vote a President on the basis of skin color and dont campaign for Martin (or anyone else) on the basis of skin color. People like you are the true non-racists who hold no generational grudges and a shining example for the future of America and the World in general.

reply to post by ButterCookie



HI BC, I was sitting out on the breezeway reading your post on my smart phone and ran in the house to post,

I am a firm believer in synchronicity.

Last night on another forum I used those exact words, victim-hood, I wanted to understand this victim mentality, we all do it from time to time. The key is realizing we do it, once again the most rational explanation I can come up with is the control dramas we choose individually to get us through life, the AA community it seems is using victim hood on a new level.

The Celestine prophecy was the best book I ever read on understanding human nature..

The Four Control Dramas from the Celestine Prophecy

The Celestine Prophecy’s 4 Control Dramas

The sixth insight states that childhood dramas block our ability to fully experience the mystical. All humans, because of their upbringing, tend toward one of the four “control dramas”:

Intimidators steal energy from others by threat.

Interrogators steal it by judging and questioning.

Aloof people attract attention (and energy) to themselves by acting reserved or withdrawing.

And poor me’s make us feel guilty and responsible for them.

The above description from James Redfield’s book, The Celestine Prophecy, defines four ways that people are in relationship with one another. All are attempts to control another’s behavior. What is this need we have to control? Why do we feel it is necessary?

We attempt to control and manipulate others because we believe that if they would change their behavior we would be happy and so would they. When people do things we don’t like, or when we’re not getting our way, we think they are wrong. Then, believing we are right and they are wrong, we think that we have the right to impose our beliefs on them. What we are attempting to do is protect our beliefs. How does this play out in a relationship?

www.relationshipspecialists.com...

So when does the need to feel victimized end on a group level, say any group, gays, Jewish, African American?

And this continual pandering and catering just doesn't cut it anymore.

And what it the mindset of the people who feel the need to coddle instead of helping others become self sufficient?

And doesn't it seem like globally leaders are using this mentality too?

As a means to an end.

reply to post by MaryStillToe


Eh, not even worth it.

I am disgusted and I find the thread to be absurd. Being a person that identifies with people under the misnomer of 'black' or 'african american', this is upsetting.......and it has nothing to do with zimmerman, even though anyone gunning down any youth is disdainful.......anywhoo.

I honestly do not believe you are "black" your whole post is from the position of an outsider. Judging by your comments you separated yourself along time ago.
Just by a few of your sentences I can tell that you have an erroneous view of the black community and history which can lead to confusion.

I know what its like to be different in the black community, I also know what its like to be called names, but I also recognize cause and effect. The black community didn't get that way on accident. I hate posting this same tired line but in from major street to major street there are about 2-3 liquor stores in each direction, none which have ever been black owned. That is a whole different thread, but seriously, it sounds like you haven't come to the conclusion, every bit of advancement of "difference" you have acquired or obtained should always be shared with those that may not have the opportunity to be open minded. I have so much to say about this thread but its late....

And for the record African Kings,Queens, and Nobles never sold anyone, they were tricked and also tricked into killing conflicting tribes.
Promote peace and light to all. Love to all.
some of your post reflect your inability or ignorance if you will.
Instead of saying "understanding the victim mindset", it should be said " understand the mindset of victims". If you think that the atrocious behavior of our fallen brothers is by choice then to me that just reflects your own racist ideologies. No one will ever consciously make the choice to be separated from the human family, or to be misunderstood, or not recognized.

addition :
lets not forget, historically speaking every single attempt to become self sufficient was meticulously sabotaged and crushed, without support.

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
I find it funny that, here we have a person trying to put out the flame
of a historic racism,.being kind and respectful towards others and
putting forth an effort to encourage others to do the same. and yet
she is getting slammed for the very thing on this thread she has been
trying to avoid.

Odd isn't it?

I really can't understand it, it is almost like they are on a subconscious level wanting to keep the drama going by encouraging division and victim hood, instead of encouraging people to stand on their own two feet, I get that a lot on the forum I am the bad guy because I dare to think entitlements make a community weaker, maybe some have a messiah complex,

Why would you want to keep people dependent?

Also I see this kind of behavior if I make comments on the oppression of women in some cultures, I get accused of hatred when it is quite the opposite, if I hated them I wouldn't give a damn.

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
I am disgusted and I find the thread to be absurd. Being a person that identifies with people under the misnomer of 'black' or 'african american', this is upsetting.......and it has nothing to do with zimmerman, even though anyone gunning down any youth is disdainful.......anywhoo.

I honestly do not believe you are "black" your whole post is from the position of an outsider. Judging by your comments you separated yourself along time ago.
Just by a few of your sentences I can tell that you have an erroneous view of the black community and history which can lead to confusion.

I know what its like to be different in the black community, I also know what its like to be called names, but I also recognize cause and effect. The black community didn't get that way on accident. I hate posting this same tired line but in from major street to major street there are about 2-3 liquor stores in each direction, none which have ever been black owned. That is a whole different thread, but seriously, it sounds like you haven't come to the conclusion, every bit of advancement of "difference" you have acquired or obtained should always be shared with those that may not have the opportunity to be open minded. I have so much to say about this thread but its late....

And for the record African Kings,Queens, and Nobles never sold anyone, they were tricked and also tricked into killing conflicting tribes.
Promote peace and light to all. Love to all.

1) What exactly is a Black Community?

2) Did the Africans trick themselves into selling each other to the Arabs and then the Europeans?

3) exactly how many people were killed trying to "take" said slaves from Africa if they weren't sold? I mean, there had to have been bloodshed and killing in order to invade a Continent to take slaves from. What people are going to let strangers prance right in and take take take or even, as you said, "trick".

4) How exactly did they get tricked? Where there hundreds of David Blaines amongst those dirty, dirty people? Surely they knew not to trust strangers when they couldn't trust other tribes in the same vicinity, right?

reply to post by muzzleflash


I totally agree with you that it's not justified, on either side. That post was for the person who didn't understand why a black community that she encountered in Washington was so different from one in Georgia.

That being said, problems don't magically fix themselves. Most people need to be removed out of the abusive environment first before they can start healing and have a new outlook. As long as certain black communities remain in proximity to abusive white communities, the wounds can never fully heal.

reply to post by kimish


Here we go

1) What exactly is a Black Community?

Did you ask the OP, or anyone else that appear to have an understanding of the idea being conveyed???
Na, I don't think you did.

2) Did the Africans trick themselves into selling each other to the Arabs and then the Europeans?

Nope, the so called "Arab" justified the use of excessive force against the indigenous peoples of the middle east and "Africa" with misinterpretation of religious script. Maybe you are unaware of that tidbit, but I think you need to read some real books. The fairytale thing, isn't going to cut it.

3) exactly how many people were killed trying to "take" said slaves from Africa if they weren't sold? I mean, there had to have been bloodshed and killing in order to invade a Continent to take slaves from. What people are going to let strangers prance right in and take take take or even, as you said, "trick". 4) How exactly did they get tricked? Where there hundreds of David Blaines amongst those dirty, dirty people? Surely they knew not to trust strangers when they couldn't trust other tribes in the same vicinity, right?

I am truly sorry that you have a perverse elementary understanding of human history. Maybe you are unaware of the trading of firearms for what was documented as indentured servants, but yes were tricked. Indigenous people were told firearms were weapons from God, among many other fable to get "trick" people into killing already conflicting tribes and trade their own for these powerful weapons. This is a fraction of the tip of the ice berg. Your racist understanding supports your insolence.

Its sad that this is all you got from my post.

Thanks alot for the post above me, everytime I say heal, people respond like there aren't any wounds. People are just walking around hurting because its fun.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Glad to see empowered blacks who dont vote a President on the basis of skin color and dont campaign for Martin (or anyone else) on the basis of skin color. People like you are the true non-racists who hold no generational grudges and a shining example for the future of America and the World in general.

This whole comment is racist and full of stereotypes and yet you applaud someone for not doing things based off of skin color.

Honestly just re-read your comment, you've gotta be kidding me right.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Glad to see empowered blacks who dont vote a President on the basis of skin color and dont campaign for Martin (or anyone else) on the basis of skin color. People like you are the true non-racists who hold no generational grudges and a shining example for the future of America and the World in general.

White people seem to think just because a black person supports another black person it's only because of skin color (which really means they think blacks aren't smart enough to make their own decisions) and if blacks don't support the side of the majority of whites in America then it's "reverse racism". Anything that shows that blacks are not assimilating into white American society is seen as a threat to them. Of course you will never hear them admit that. The truth is America is not our homeland or our people or our culture and we can never assimilate because we don't belong. A black person in America (or any race other than white for that matter) will never be seen as equal to a white man. This is a Eurocentric society and we are not Europeans.

AKINOFTHEFIRSTSTARS:
I don't get your points. War and slavery and any and all ills of humanity existed in Africa long before there were European countries. War and slavery existed among the tribes and kingdoms of Europe too. Such things have been around since the dawn of mankind.

reply to post by hypervigilant


Besides the Celestine Prophecy, my own conclusion has been the power of the tribe and survival instincts, how easy it is to become entrapped into that cult mentality,

To cram a bunch of people into the same city, they must be made to believe that they belong to the same tribe. That is called integration. Integration is a rational solution to this problem with this instinct. That same relationship can be extended to cover the world. This is not a reasoning problem. It is a problem with an instinct (tribalism), one that cannot be solved by using another instinct (compassion). That tribal instinct has been in the inner brain for at least two million years, possibly four. Only evolution can root it out. That will take a bunch of time, like perhaps millions of years. Don't think for a minute that this problem can be solved by teaching reason (tolerance). The tribal instinct was embedded in the brain first, big and strong, long before reason came.

www.onelife.com...

I used to think multiculturalism was working, but something went haywire, TPTB noticed that it wasn't in their best interest for everyone to get along.

I don't believe such a thing as "black or white communities" exist per se.

But rather that the existent reality is a "singular human community" of confused people who erroneously label themselves into illogical categories.

Really, people?

The attacks on the OP will stop, and I mean right now.

She has expressed an opinion. You disagree? Fine. What you don't do is attack her. Period.

This will be the only warning.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Of course you don't get it. Did you even read what made me respond that way??

War and yadadada has been around since the dawn of man, but I was trying to convey something completely different. Do not read my post if your not going to read who I am responding to. And I wouldn't say all ills. Somethings are new like the idea of race. Prior to that idea it was based off of lineage(clan,tribe), or region(people from the east)or commodity.

I was correcting a couple of erroneous opinions that people try to pass by as fact. I am sorry that some how you believed that I was saying europeans introduced these things, even though I don't know how any one can get that off of what I wrote.

But rather that the existent reality is a "singular human community" of confused people who erroneously label themselves into illogical categories.

This is an illusion. We are all different that what makes us similar. I dislike people who spend night and day labeling others into illogical categories because they are confused, in the name of religion or in the name of 'new religion'= "science".