Daring to be Different in the Black Community

reply to post by zomba44


Did you know there were white slaves too? The revisionist historians have obfuscated that. They call it "indentured servants". Just like the Church refers to the "Assumption of Mary" instead of calling it what it was, her Ascension.
Also there were black slave owners as well, and no one made a "Roots" movie to honor the white slaves from Ireland.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
As a black woman, I have faced ostracism from the black community for several reasons, most recently because I supported George Zimmerman in Martin/ Zimmerman Case. I began this thread to discuss my issues on this topic and to allow others to ask questions, or share their stories in this struggle with me...

I guess it began childhood. I was born in the South (Memphis) but grew up in the state of Kansas, where the population was 60% white, 20% Native American, and 10% Black, Hispanic and Asian. All my friends were white and Native American, and as children, we embraced the beauty of our different races; it was only when my family moved back to Memphis where racism reared its ugly head. I remember going to the playground and seeing white girls jump roping (for example), and I would stand in line to jump in, and was warmly welcomed. The black girls would pull me to the side afterwards and say,

"Ummm..why were you playing with them?" I would be confused and say, "Because we all wanted to jump rope."

"But they are WHITE."

"Ummm yes. I know that. What's the issue?"

They never had an answer, just stared at me in shock, because I was 'different'.

Later in life, I decided to continue my education. This was shone by lots of members of my family, as I was told I was being "white", and that my pursuit to practice Law afterwards was me being "too good" to work at a 'regular job',

A few years ago, I quit wearing my hair in perm and I now wear it naturally in a beautiful Afro. Of course this was way outside the 'box' for lots of black women in the south, because I was no longer conforming like the 'crowd', wearing perms and weaves.

As a English and Political Science major, I learned a lot about history, politics, and social issues, and have quit voting Democratic (a different thread exists on this). This was another 'blow' to the black community as they saw it, as I was being 'white' for not praising President Obama.

Lastly, I came out of the non-religious 'closet'. Fortunately as a child, I was never fully indoctrinated, but pretended to believe like everyone else...

And now, as a result of the Zimmerman trial, my peers and family have always been aware that I supported George Zimmerman (based on the facts of the case) and today came the backlash and attacks on me. Not physically, but very cruel verbal remarks have been texted to me all day. Mainly from my father...

He and I have always been very close. We both left the religious closet together, but lately I had been seeing that the pressure to rejoin the herd has gotten to him. He now verbally attacks me and says, "You need to come back to the 'black side' and "you're crazy" because I hold firm to independent ways and beliefs. Today after he attacked me for being happy about the Zimmerman verdict, I tried to change the subject by saying, "we should go see a movie, Dad. Pacific Rim is out and it looks good."

He responded, "I don't hang out with Uncle Toms."

The majority of ANY racism I have ever experienced as a black woman have come form other black people. Why are we like this?

We have conceded to life-long victim-hood, and excuse making, shifting the blame on others, especially other races and I hate it.

The number one excuse for our violent behavior, low education, or high poverty rate from the Black Community is "SLAVERY"

It is absolutely absurd.

1. How do we think black slaves came to America? Do we think that Europeans just waltzed onto the African shoreline and grabbed slaves? No. African Kings and Queens SOLD their subjects into slavery.
2. Why do we think the entire Civil Rights movement was about our skin color? It was MOSTLY about white private business owners mad at the GOVERNMENT, not blacks, for forcing them to turn their private businesses into public ones.

and most importantly,

If slavery is the answer to all of the black community's problems, then why can't we trace these behaviors and issues all the way to the Reconstruction Era? Seems like those problems would be detected to the generations much closer to slavery, rather than just popping up in this era.

Excuses...

Anyway, didn't mean to be long-winded. Just wanted to see some your comments and see if anyone else can relate.

edit on 14-7-2013 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)

I applaud you for posting this and having the attitude/perspective that you do on things. Keep on doing what you're doing and don't fall under the pressure of those around you that are ostracizing you and or telling you that doing things that will make you succeed in the world are "white things", that's bull #, absolute bull #.

You are correct on your views regarding slavery as well. Slavery should NOT be an excuse for black people's problems, as slavery has been used in every culture and every group of people have been enslaved.

Keep up what you're doing and don't fall.

I tend to find the ways of thinking and attitude of the "black community" isn't really a racial thing, but is actually a cultural thing. (But tends to be strongly ingrained with and therefore associated with race.) On those occasions where I happen to meet a recent immigrant from an African country (who is black - but speaks with a noticeable accent), I find their way of thinking often is totally different. It seems they tend to put more effort into getting education and blame others less for any of their problems. Of course that can change if they come under social pressure to fit in, but not all do. In some cases they also form their own enclaves that are separate from the rest of the black community, and I'd presume it's because they also don't feel comfortable with the negative attitutes and antisocial behavior towards those who are different.

Of course you can take this casual observation with a grain of salt, as it comes from a white guy.

I am white as the day is long, but daring to be different can attract all manner of unhelpful attention regardless of the tone of ones skin. Being smart in amongst a gaggle of intellectual non-entities tends to create an atmosphere, listening to metal music while everyone else is bumping and grinding to the latest electronic abortion from the charts, speaking clearly rather than talking the local variant of "street"...

Human beings of every colour, creed, and religion will find a way to exclude those who are considered different, those who are considered to be outside the mould, not of the same cloth. When I was a high school kid, I used to get into fights with other kids who were picking on the minority students, or on the smart kids, the smaller kids. I had no peer group, because I refused to back down, and because I had principles, something that was alien to the vast majority of folks at my school.

Now, at twenty eight years of age, little has changed. I still thrust the boot of my individuality into the face of the society around me, but these days I do it knowing two very encouraging things. I have good friends in my home town, who, like me, were in some way different to those around whom they grew up, and I have ATS to share my expiriences in that regard with.

Daring to be different can cause others to look at you funny no matter what colour your skin happens to be, or what culture you do it in. But in my own estimation, it is well worth the effort.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
The majority of the attacks on me toward was the discussion of slavery, or the little that they knew about it.

I briefly mentioned slavery in the OP and it is truly ridiculous to me how blacks today feel that their 'issues' are directly related to slavery.

No one today was alive during that period, so there is no direct correlation to anyone black nor white with it. And no white person owes any apology to any black person for slavery.

This is also something that is absurd to me, which is why I don't understand white guilt.

Lady, you have been very brave indeed. Very brave.

This is not an easy situation and the bias goes deep. I live in a fast-world, with all the tech.

One thing I've learned in education though is this: The hardest people to teach are those who do not want to learn.

Or put in another way: You cannot awaken somebody who pretends to be asleep.

Originally posted by MaryStillToe
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

You have a lot of negative things to say about black people. You make a lot of generalizations based on your own limited life experiences while trying to validate your views by saying "I am saying this as a black". Your being black does not validate your views of other black people because you are only one person and you personally don't know most black people.

If you told me that you traveled the country and lived and worked in many different black communities, I could take your points of view and generalizations a little more seriously. Otherwise, I am left to conclude that A) you are not a black person, or B) you are a black person who wishes you were white because it would make your life easier.

Beautifully said. I am going to go with choice A, but B works too. It is always suspect when someone mentions their race and gender in EVERY paragraph they write. "As a black woman..." LOL, c'mon... it would be comical if it wasn't so sad. My bet is that this poster is a Conservative White Male, hell bent on furthering his hate filled agenda. Clearly this poster has no knowledge of Black America's plight, or about political history for that matter. The claim that, "I used to be a Democrat until I learned how racist they were..." would work if the poster was now a-political, but the fact they claim to be a Conservative Republican is a dead give away.

And by the slightest chance that this poster is a Black Woman, as they claim, she is the definition of a house negro. Turning her smug, semi-privileged nose up at the field workers.

Moderators, set up a debate between me and this fraud... I will gladly expose them. I'll even let them pick the subject matter.

Originally posted by prometheus2033
this thread shines brightly with ignorance, 400 years cant just be forgotten overnight, there’s a giant wound still open and it needs time to heal, ALOT of time..... im not sure how long it will take, but it will get better(hopefully) either that or a full blown race war will finally blow up, which i believe is the agenda honestly. And op your just feeding the fire and spreading the hate imo, self hatred is a disease.

Exactly! And yet these wounds could be healed with relative expediency if people actually honored the truth and were brave enough to face reality. Instead, they deny what they see, rewrite history and spew propaganda all to protect their privileged mediocrity. The future will see this nation and this new generation of neo-liberals as delusional and psychologically primitive. At least the generations of the old were honest in their bigotry, and understood the consequences of this nations actions.

Apathy and hate has now turned into delusion and fear.

Originally posted by LizardSlicks

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by LizardSlicks

 

You have taken interest where the name 'ButterCookie' derives?

Simple. It describes my skin complexion, maybe a shade or 2 darker (Sexy ain't it)

edit on 15-7-2013 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)

This much I assumed. It's not healthy or mature to derive so much of your identity from the tone of your skin. I know it's just a screename but if you chose it to be your permanent moniker here, I'm sure the fact that you're light skinned is never far from your mind and a quality you're very pleased with. I'm sure it is sexy. Good for you. I bet you look pretty good judging by your posts you can't draw your confidence and assuredness from your brains. Not trying to say you are dumb but you are way too self assured to be ugly and posting like you're posting.


Also, you don't have to "STATE" when you're denouncing something, it is the effect/side effects of feeling a specific way and speaking/showing how you feel, whether or not that was your intention.


Good luck on your journey. Was never trying to attack or say you're a bad person, just recognized your confusion in contrast with your attitude regarding these things. One day it'll all make sense, to you, and me, and everyone else. You know though that when you posted like you did how many bandwagon fans you were going to instantly earn and the direction you were leading this thread. Ask yourself, "what and who did I do that for, and why?". We get better every day as long as we're living the right way. One day it'll all make sense.

Stop speaking so much reason and rational to them! They might melt away and dissolve back into the acidic corrosion they came from. The OP is obviously either a White Male or a self-absorbed and, yet ironically, self-hating Black Woman who has a real affinity for her looks but a real lack of self-knowledge of who she is.

Crazy...

For Pete's sake slavery between white and black ended a long time ago people wake up and smell some coffee we are all slaves it's funny that the ones pushing this whole Zimmerman thing look at Obama first African American president I am of Hispanic descent butter cookie I too learned to speak proper English and went to college and my family is upset because I don't speak the slang that my family does I feel for you it is A LONELY road

Thing is I look at the majority of blacks in my local area.

I think there are like the OP

Instead of holing up in the ghettos and moaning how "whitey used to keep them down and that's why they are poor should we should give them free stuff" they have stayed in school, gone to college and all have good jobs. I have enormous respect for them. They have achieved racial equality. People of black origin have opportunities now those like Rosa Parks and others 50 years ago only dreamed off but they are squandering it.


Of course 30 miles away from me in London we have a similar problem to the USA of blacks holing themselves up in tight communities and making it a us verse them situation. And to me that is no different from the Whites that want segregation !


The other problem is what I call low brow black culture. The Gangster, rape, gun and drugs , drop out of school, feel victimised and entitled look after your own mentality that so many blacks and funny enough whites are adopting. It just enforces stereotypes, causing race tensions, mistrust and generally pushes a big part of the black community away from the rest and creates a hostile atmosphere.


Fact is if the certain blacks who are stirring all the trouble want respect and equality, instead of rioting and causing crime do what the OP has done and those who live near me. Buckle down stay in school, go to college or university , get a good job and make something of yourself. And by good job I don't mean as a public baiter and race stirrer like Jesse Jackson

Originally posted by muse7
Let's just reverse the roles for a minute...and what if ButterCookie was white and from Mississippi? What if this thread was about the racism that is obviously alive and well in the deep southern states? What if this thread was about how some people from the deep south are still so backward thinking and prejudice and still think they are part of the confederacy?

Still think this thread would have gotten 100 plus stars? Hell no!

It's sad how the OP is so desperately seeking the approval of White people.

Bingo! And that is the real crux of the issue. The OP just played on the emotional appeal of an overly zealotry forum who wants nothing more than to "expose" ignorance in black america. Mention things like the education gap, or the new Jim Crow era where 1 out of 3 black males are forced into the judicial system, or any other historical or institutionalized contributions to the problems within black communities, and the hounds will be let loose to say you're race baiting. LOL, like really? Does cognitive dissonance get any more apparent than this line of thinking? Me thinks not.

reply to post by ButterCookie

"First the whole legal system is based on social revenge, not on social compassion. It is strange to see that still there are countries where death sentence is legal. If a man has murdered someone, and you think it is a crime; certainly it is a crime. Nobody has the right to destroy somebody else' life. But what you are doing? You destroy that man's life. And I don't see the logic, because if this man's murder, crucifixion, was going to revive the other man, then too there was some logic in it. Instead of one-man dead, now there will be two men dead. And you think law is satisfied, the society is satisfied; but this satisfaction is ugly." --Osho

It's sad how the OP is so desperately seeking the approval of White people.

Detach yourself from it.

Other people's attitudes are not your own.

You do not need the validation of other people.
Their opinions can never give that to you anyway.
Real validation has to come form the inside, from
knowing who you are (and to Whom you belong).

Having been married to a black woman, I've had my share of
difficult moments dealing with unfavorable opinions or feeling
formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

Allow me to offer some advice (what I've learn the hard way).

First, I view this racial thing as largely a generational thing.
You don't live in the past, do you? Well, some people do.
That is just the way it is. People are free to hold the views
that they do... the irony is those beliefs are a form of slavery.

There two forms of freedom. Freedom TO (do as you please)
and the freedom FROM (those thing that cause you harm).
People often speak of freedom TO, but little is ever said
about the freedom FROM.

What does this mean? It means learning to ignore.
It means learning to walk away.... to let go. This
has been hard for me, but it is one of the most
important lesson in life. One often forget and
are forced to learn over and over again.

Learn to say, "Perhaps you're right" even when another
person falsely accuse you and KNOW they are wrong!!
Just say, "Perhaps you're right" (in your head) and walk away.
Sometimes doing this opens you up to seeing a different
point-of-view. It opens up the space you need to avoid
anger and can help you see that maybe you were wrong
after all. If you're like me, this is very difficult to admit.

I know it is difficult when dealing with your father, believe I know.

Remember this, most people are just children in adult bodies.
And we should include ourselves in this. We are all just children.
Don't get caught up in the childish drama. Don't give other
people power over you and let them steal your joy.

Rise above it.

You might think things "should be" different, and you'd be right.

However, telling yourself things "should be" different is to deny
a reality and to do so only brings rage. That anger does you
no good, so just let it go. Place some health boundaries on
those people who make you angry and go find your bliss.

Friendship is best thing you can find in this life, anything else
is just an ego trip. Drop the vanity of pride, let go of the need
to be right. Forget attaining validation from so-called friends
and family... be secure in yourself and focus on the things
that really matter by knowing who you are.

Everything else is meaningless vanity.

Well, well ... I AM a white woman from Mississippi! I was born in 1949 and grew up in a home where a Black woman pretty much reared me. Mary Boyd, and to this day I miss her. I wasn't brought up in a racist home. I was taught respect not hate. Racism exists everywhere because we do nothing to stop it! I live in an apartment complex where my son and I are about the only 2 caucasians living here. I have been called 'mama' by several of the young Black men who live here.

I'm sorry about Trayvon Martin's death ... but if only he had walked away. If only Zimmerman had stayed in his car. I hope a lesson has been learned from this.

Our Father teaches us to love one another ....

I dont understand why people think the OP is white or a man?

Isnt the fact that people are in denial about who she is, proof of her point?

A black women would never feel this way, so therefore it's actually a troll.

I think there is something inherently creepy and worrying about people who refuse to accept that someone who is black could hold different opinions.

As for slavery, there was no trickery involved, there were well established slave trading roots the europeans tapped into.

Originally posted by LizardSlicks

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by LizardSlicks
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

You were replying to a post about "abandoning culture". The OP has done much more to that than eat some other food based upon what beliefs and ideas she has that she has shared, yet you equated her encompassing aversion and far reaching put down of the black community as a whole to you eating mexican food. Trust me there was nothing in your post that was too abstract for somebody else to appreciate. It just wasn't accurate or as effective a comparison as you believe it to be. It was a worthless response because of how irrelevant the comparison was which I paralleled with the part in my post about stereotypical african american food.

How is striving for an education and certain political beliefs abandoning "black culture?" Would not equating such things to a racial group a racist stance?

If striving for an education is "abandoning black culture" then are you not suggesting that lack of education is part of black culture?

edit on 15-7-2013 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

?

Now how did you deduct that from anything I've said. I haven't mentioned nor addressed education once in my post here, and don't care much at all about any political aspects to it. You just made yourself look more feeble than you hopefully are. Good luck, really.

Not at all. Simple deductive logic. If she said she was castigated for trying to get an education and speak proper English and if she is accused of "abandoning black culture" or trying to endear herself to white people, then a very reasonable counterpoint is do her detractors think that lack of education is part and parcel of that "black culture." Very logical if you remove emotion and actually think about the situation.

Originally posted by openlocks
or the new Jim Crow era where 1 out of 3 black males are forced into the judicial system,

Errr no one forceing them into it.

Stay away from drugs and gangs and stay in school and work hard........ It not rocket science

I thought it was pretty much accepted that the US criminal system is racist?
Are there really people that think otherwise?

reply to post by muse7

My point is, that there are uneducated racists people in EVERY culture and they are not confined to a certain skin color or culture, and the OP is somehow making all of you believe that being racist and uneducated is a trait of the black culture and that's sad.

Don't you think we all know that uneducated racists exist in every culture?

The OP speaks from a black culture point of view because she's black.

It's that simple really.

The point of ATS is to deny ignorance no matter where it comes from and the OP is doing just that based on where she comes from.

reply to post by ButterCookie


Ms ButterCookie whats up? Im back girl!! i just came back to again say i applaud you or separating your self from negative influences that would hinder your personal growing but

What it sounds like your saying is that you separated your self from the entire "black community" because they feel you aren't black enough and they want to hold you back and now everyone on ATS is congratulating you for abandoning them which is slightly racist. Reason being that people of different races dare to be different all the time..its 2013..My roomate is the blackest white person you will ever meet but i doubt anyone would congratulate him for "being different in the white community". Even gay marriage is the new hot thing..so what are people really congratulating you for??? you need to think about this for real.

One person stated that your are a crab that got out of the barrel and kicked that barrel down the hill but are you not still a crab? Are you now better than the other crabs because you got out?

growing up and even now i have been called uncle tom, house N..all that and im Dark as night The difference is i didn't become an elitist and kick the barrel down the hill. Instead, i started to feel bad for my peers and community and sought to help make change and to help raise their consciousness. Im not saying its your job to help others but your kind of an example of why the "black community" shuns people with your attitude. There is no real team work everyone is out to get it own their own. Even the native Americans stick together more.

Now you millions of people across America and ATS said that the black community uses slavery as an excuse i feel if you had a better understanding of your self and "the black community" you wold see that the end result of slavery is the reason why you are "daring to be different in the black community". We can talk about this so we can move forward ...

reply to post by Baddguy

What it sounds like your saying is that you separated your self from the entire "black community" because they feel you aren't black enough and they want to hold you back and now everyone on ATS is congratulating you for abandoning them which is slightly racist.

It only sounds that way to you. In the very first sentence she says that she is the one who has faced "ostracism" from the black community, but she also refers to the black community as "we".

The title of her thread is Daring to be Different IN the Black Community.

Please help me to understand why you feel like she's the one who has separated herself from them and not the other way around?

No one has been able to answer that question for me yet.