Daring to be Different in the Black Community

So essentially it OK to kill someone in there own neighborhood because you as the neighborhoods watch captain have no idea they actually live their??????

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by LizardSlicks

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by poet1b

 

Well said, and yes. That is exactly my point!!

Negative, violent behavior should never be excused, no matter what color; in the Zimmerman case, blacks felt the need to excuse the assault by Trayvon, and this is a huge problem that is rarely addressed.

I cringed every time I heard, "He should have stayed in his car"...as if the young black male is an animal.

Sadly, lots of young black males have began to believe and behave like animals, and then are offended if this is said to them.

I shook my head tonight at the absurdity happening in various cities around the country in the name of 'Trayvon'..

Literally behaving like animals..The only difference is that the lions and such have enough common sense not to tear up the jungle.

George being an adult and an authority figure who presumably was coached/trained on how to handle such situations as a neighborhood watchman, should have presented himself to Trayvon as such. I doubt little more than an explanation as to what they were respectively doing from both involved would have resulted in such a scenario. In my opinion George absolutely failed in his duties as neighborhood watchman by not following appropriate protocol which led to confusion/fear on both sides and a fight resulted, not an assault. George happened to be getting the worse of it, which by his injuries were nowhere near life threatening or indicative of a struggle for his life. He was ill equipped mentally and physically to be the figure of authority that he fancied himself, couldn't assess the situation and react appropriately, and because of this a teenager that did not have to die for any reason is dead.

And there are lots of idiots, criminals of opportunity that will use anything as an excuse to cause mayhem and destruction. This is not a phenomenon exclusive to young black males.

A few things wrong with what you said. Zimmerman had no uniform so he was NOT an authority figure. Second from the testimony there was no time to say who he was. Third having had my head pounded into a cement sidewalk may I do that to you so you have some personal experience to speak from about life threatening? Fourth why are you excusing Martin's own mistakes? He could have gone home, he could have called 911, he could have called his father. He had plenty of time. Why do you say it is all Zimmerman's fault? Why do you believe a young black man is so stupid that he could not have gone home or called for help on his phone? He had four minutes to go 30 yards to be home and safe. He chose otherwise. Do you forgive his poor choices because he was black? That would be racist of you if you do.

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


I don't think we're getting through to each other. What I meant was how society at large views the value of a black life. I understand that before some whites were willing to die for the cause, that black deaths for the cause were of no concern. What I am saying by "perception" is just because something can now get media attention, does not mean that society at large actually cares. The people that do express that they care about the life lost can now be heard because they are allowed to be angry at these things now without fearing their lives will shortly end violently, with no justice.

Originally posted by Kashai
Yes under all circumstances we should kill anyone who we feel does not belong in neighborhood despite the fact they actually have every right to be their. A person who is responsible for making sure he knows who belongs in such a neighborhood.......


Should be freed because he killed a person who had ever right to be in that neighborhood
because he did not realize, that person actually was living in that neighborhood.

Sounds like a bunch of baloney to me.

Any thoughts?

edit on 16-7-2013 by Kashai because: (no reason given)

Alright enough kindness. Martin was killed for attempting to murder someone who had broken no laws. Period. Any thoughts?

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
It was Zimmerman who stalked, DAMN the laws.If someone scares me I can track them and kill them if they resist? Bulls##t. Laws are protecting the nastiest creatures who ever walked in human skin right now. Wrong is wrong skin be DAMNED this is NOT the issue here,We are trying to stop mindless revenge,we get enough from our forefathers reckless policies we need to at least stop it here.
If you want it that bad then GET HELP you have an inferiority complex.

Sorry Zimmerman did not stalk. Martin tried to commit murder. You wants laws to protect Martin who was attempting to kill someone for going in the same direction? Why do you excuse Martin's actions? Or are you saying it is ok if you are black or a teenager to kill whoever you want? To many people on here with an agenda. I wonder how many of you are working for the government.

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot

Originally posted by LizardSlicks

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by poet1b

 

Well said, and yes. That is exactly my point!!

Negative, violent behavior should never be excused, no matter what color; in the Zimmerman case, blacks felt the need to excuse the assault by Trayvon, and this is a huge problem that is rarely addressed.

I cringed every time I heard, "He should have stayed in his car"...as if the young black male is an animal.

Sadly, lots of young black males have began to believe and behave like animals, and then are offended if this is said to them.

I shook my head tonight at the absurdity happening in various cities around the country in the name of 'Trayvon'..

Literally behaving like animals..The only difference is that the lions and such have enough common sense not to tear up the jungle.

George being an adult and an authority figure who presumably was coached/trained on how to handle such situations as a neighborhood watchman, should have presented himself to Trayvon as such. I doubt little more than an explanation as to what they were respectively doing from both involved would have resulted in such a scenario. In my opinion George absolutely failed in his duties as neighborhood watchman by not following appropriate protocol which led to confusion/fear on both sides and a fight resulted, not an assault. George happened to be getting the worse of it, which by his injuries were nowhere near life threatening or indicative of a struggle for his life. He was ill equipped mentally and physically to be the figure of authority that he fancied himself, couldn't assess the situation and react appropriately, and because of this a teenager that did not have to die for any reason is dead.

And there are lots of idiots, criminals of opportunity that will use anything as an excuse to cause mayhem and destruction. This is not a phenomenon exclusive to young black males.

A few things wrong with what you said. Zimmerman had no uniform so he was NOT an authority figure. Second from the testimony there was no time to say who he was. Third having had my head pounded into a cement sidewalk may I do that to you so you have some personal experience to speak from about life threatening? Fourth why are you excusing Martin's own mistakes? He could have gone home, he could have called 911, he could have called his father. He had plenty of time. Why do you say it is all Zimmerman's fault? Why do you believe a young black man is so stupid that he could not have gone home or called for help on his phone? He had four minutes to go 30 yards to be home and safe. He chose otherwise. Do you forgive his poor choices because he was black? That would be racist of you if you do.

Being the self appointed leader of the neighborhood watch and stalking people with a gun does actually make you an authority figure, official or not. You think I have never been in a fight? I have been in plenty in my younger days and have been on the bottom half of a grappling straddle before and even when being punched from this position I would never even think to pull out my gun and fatally shoot my combatant. You sound really scared. I'm sorry about your experience of having your head bashed into the ground, but you of all people should know then that based upon John Goods testimony that this was not the case but it was rather a struggle for dominant position and not a one sided head into concrete bash festival (he was asked this specifically many times and always maintained that as far as he could see this was not taking place, but the struggle that occurs in a fight that goes to the ground) and you should recognize that the physical evidence on zimmermans head were minor abrasions consistent with scraping the back of his bald head on the ground, completely different than the blunt force trauma and contusions that would have resulted from "having his head bashed on concrete".

The rest of your post is ignorant and offensive, and will not be addressed any further than this.


Just saw your last few posts regarding this. You have now fully exposed yourself as a completely ignorant fool. You will never again get my benefit of the doubt nor be dignified with a response.

Originally posted by Kashai
So essentially it OK to kill someone in there own neighborhood because you as the neighborhoods watch captain have no idea they actually live their??????

Any thoughts?

Ya. Do you have that post on clipboard to make it easy to put putting it back up? It is ok to kill anyone who is trying to murder you like Martin was. Next question.

Years ago, I saw an African Chief on 60 Minutes I think it was. He said that he didn't understand why most American blacks were so bitter about slavery and so mad at the white people. He said that it was HIS people that had captured their ancestors and made slaves out of them. He said that his ancestors kept the ones they wanted and sold the rest and if there hadn't been a market for the slaves, they would have just killed them. African Americans should be proud of the sacrifice that their ancestors made to make their lives so much better today than they would have been had they still been in Africa.

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


I don't think neighbor hood watches do anything MORE than report. He went AFTER that guy point blank.I can walk into any bar, poke at some big drunks ego until such time as he would attack me then I could kill him legally right?
Wrong. That is all that would be.

Originally posted by LizardSlicks
reply to post by Jerk_Idiot

 

I don't think we're getting through to each other. What I meant was how society at large views the value of a black life. I understand that before some whites were willing to die for the cause, that black deaths for the cause were of no concern. What I am saying by "perception" is just because something can now get media attention, does not mean that society at large actually cares. The people that do express that they care about the life lost can now be heard because they are allowed to be angry at these things now without fearing their lives will shortly end violently, with no justice.

Ok. How to put this? When you are young you think you matter. As you get older you will find out different. Society at large does not give a damm about ANY individual, not even as you may think right now about Martin. If you die the world will go on without you. So why the big stink about Martin. Because it is NOT about Martin. It is NOT about Zimmerman. It IS about a whole lot of other things. If we were smart we would look at who is using this tragedy for their own ends. Obama for instance is using this to resurrect his gun program. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson used it to advance their political power and to push for racial division. Angela Corey even perjured herself to use this to advance her political ambitions. There are many others and I have not found them all. It has always been this way. One of the great things about civil rights was to get people to actually think about PEOPLE period. You know, all us poor saps at the bottom like both Martin and Zimmerman and us. The bad part is I believe civil rights has been hijacked. It is no longer about people but about what certain group;s or individuals can use it for. It is no longer about people.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Amagnon

 

I understand your point but she identified her race because it was pertinent to the topic.

edit on 013131p://bMonday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

I guess my point is, the existence of threads like this do nothing to improve things - I dont know why anyone would post things regarding ethnicity at all - the outcome is most likely at odds with the intent.

reply to post by LizardSlicks

According to Good's testimony he could not see Zimmerman's head, hence he could not say if Martin was actually striking him, only that it appeared he was. As to the physical damage to Zimmerman's head the only reason any was apparant at all was because he was bald. If he had hair there would have been no wounds to see as occurred when I was knocked out in the same manor.

Your constant attacks on Zimmerman's actions and your refusal to discuss Martin's both actions and non-actions shows that you are not interested in what really happened or who was at fault. Zimmerman was found innocent of any crime by a jury after a trial yet you still want to see him punished. I find that highly offensive. Vigilante justice anyone? Perhaps you would like to personally extract vengence against Zimmerman yourself as so many have promised to do in violation of the law? Or do you prefer to incite? However that is I, unlike you, will continue to respond to your posts if for no other reason then to point out their fallicies. How does that saying go? "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." or something like that.

Im sorry but the OP is completely ignoring the post-traumatic effects of slavery. To her I recommend reading Joy DeGruy's book "Post Traumatic Slavery" to review the history explaining some of the reasons the black community is in such despair. Are there a lot of ignorant, racist, lazy blacks who like the saying goes pull other blacks, down absolutely. But I encourage everyone to look at how this community was shaped by the socio-economic factors of not only slavery, but deliberate efforts by the justice system to criminalize the population (research the black codes).

I have also come to see that many, not all ATS members are biased against blacks and refuse to acknowledge the history of racism in this country, but yet do an amazing job researching ancient civilizations and alien theories with far less tangible proof and historical context. Whats ironic is that many of your are absolutely brilliant at identifying clear inconsistencies in our Government and how it marginalizes people, yet fail to acknowledge how this system since its inception has treated african slaves and descends of as dogs and property, forced to abandon their native language, culture, religion and families under brutal psychological and terrorist strategies (see Willie Linch letter).

As an African American female, I have often felt a sense of hopelessness in my own community because it is so disenfranchised, broken and self-hating. For the past three years I have lurked on this board reading and soaking up the vast knowledge and wisdom by many of you regarding whats wrong with our system and how we can unite to overcome the divide and conquer strategy our government promotes.

And for the record if Zimmerman had not followed Treyvon this would have never occurred.

reply to post by ButterCookie


I wish there was some easy solution to this problem, but it's far more complicated than that. You are, first off, to be applauded for being an honest and decent person, and for not caring about looks as much as who people are. I am not black (pretty pale white, actually, :lol, so I don't have the same perspective, but I can understand some of what you have seen. You seemed to have grown up not caring how people look, but about the person, interests, etc., and that's how we should all be. For myself, I grew up in the SE as well (Chattanooga), not too far from where you were. The kids, other than family, that my sister and I played with most, that I remember best, happen to be black neighbors. In the first house where we lived, the girl behind us was very friendly. She was black. Down the side street, the girl that moved in was from a rather trashy family, and we didn't do much with her. She was white. Next door, a girl moved in that was white, and she was a total brat, and her family a real nightmare! Second place, before we left Tennessee, there was a pair of sisters across the street, that were white, but a bit snobby (no, not a fancy neighborhood). We played with them for the trampoline. The seven kids down the road, who were black, were far more common playmates. In school, it varied a lot, up until the bussing in 5'th grade. Old school - no issues. new school - tons of issues, being a VERY small minority, and thus targeted for tons of verbal abuse. At that age, nothing physical, though some threats were made. Still, I was glad when my dad's work caused us to relocate! Up until the school bussing, I hadn't seen any real racist behavior. The adults would hang out and talk about riots in other places, and didn't really understand what the big deal was. Changing schools was a real experience! The kids at the new one weren't anything like the kids we played with at home. Same skin color, but a very different culture and attitude.

That is the KEY, I think. How are people taught, and what are they taught? White or black, or any other color, racists aren't born; they are made. People learn from those around them. The TM case comes to mind. This teen and his friend on the phone both had a negative attitude towards GZ because of his color. I have personally, as an adult, had someone show attitude because of mine. A place my oldest lived for a time was in a not-great neighborhood, in a small apartment complex (couple of buildings, I think), that was mostly black. Most of her neighbors were very polite, and seemed to have a real sense of community, that I admired. They would smile and say hello, and no one seemed to care what we looked like. Once, though, coming out of the driveway, a younger black guy gave me a really ugly look and hit the vehicle with a thrown can. No reason at all. In his case, my being white was apparently reason enough. Most around there didn't care, but he did. Someone taught him this. I grew up not caring, but I know some didn't. Some white kids were taught to resent anyone of another color. To hate. While most of the racism I see these days isn't from whites, some of it still IS. We need to stop perpetuating this. I have always taught my kids to be respectful to others, and color isn't an issue for them, save as a description of a person. The first black kid they played with was described to me as "dark". Where we are is pretty white, demographically speaking, so the color isn't common, but they didn't see it as a bad thing. Then again, reviewing old pics, they see a VERY "dark" maid of honor in our wedding pics, too; a dear friend that I wish I knew how to contact these days! My oldest had a friend in HS, a black guy, that would come over and game with us (RPG stuff). He was such a nice guy - polite, smart (and not bad looking) - that I told her I wished they had more interest than just friends! Liked him a lot more than the guys she did date!

If we could all simply teach the children to look at the person, not their looks, and be color-blind ourselves, we could move past this sort of thing! Well, teach the kids, and don't allow the politicians and others to play baiting games to rile people up!

Anyway, as I said on another thread, hang in there! Be YOU, not some expected mold. Like whoever you want, have the friends you choose, and continue to stand for what is right. From what I have read, you are good people!

reply to post by zomba44

So how can we help stop this if we are monsters to you? Doubly since I a combat vet.

What can I do to stop your pain?

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


John Good said he couldn't tell if Martin was striking Zimmerman or not, but COULD DEFINITIVELY SAY THAT HE WAS NOT BASHING HIS HEAD REPEATEDLY INTO THE GROUND. Striking from the top position is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than BASHING A LIMP MANS HEAD INTO CONCRETE REPEATEDLY. He could clearly see a struggle for dominance on the ground, between two conscious men. Just because you have bottom position does not render you helpless, especially not with the bit of MMA training poor scared George had "because Trayvon was trying to murder him", right? Do you really have no clue as to what you are speaking on? If so stop making yourself look stupid for your own benefit.

As to the rest of your baiting and offensively leading line of questioning:

Never said any of that bs you're claiming me to have said. You're a troll. Go somewhere else. You may be old but you haven't learned much about anything. I promise this is the last time I dignify your asinine toilet logic with a response.

First of all I respect your bravery and courage as a combat vet. You'r not a monster and I never called you or anyone else that, I simply said I'm seeing a strong bias. All that I ask is that people research the history of slavery in this country, thats all I'm asking. I truly meant what I said about respecting your courage and bravery as a vet, it takes balls and heart to go into combat and I truly respect you for that.

First of all I respect your bravery and courage as a combat vet. You'r not a monster and I never called you or anyone else that, I simply said I'm seeing a strong bias. All that I ask is that people research the history of slavery in this country, thats all I'm asking. I truly meant what I said about respecting your courage and bravery as a vet, it takes balls and heart to go into combat and I truly respect you for that.

this thread shines brightly with ignorance, 400 years cant just be forgotten overnight, there’s a giant wound still open and it needs time to heal, ALOT of time..... im not sure how long it will take, but it will get better(hopefully) either that or a full blown race war will finally blow up, which i believe is the agenda honestly. And op your just feeding the fire and spreading the hate imo, self hatred is a disease.

I question if the OP is really black, or a black op planted here to justify and inflame from within. Either that, or serious self-hatred from trauma experienced in her childhood.