Daring to be Different in the Black Community

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot

Originally posted by timidobserver
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Honestly, your reason for supporting Zimmerman determines whether you deserve said ostracism. If you believe that he was in the right, based purely on the facts of what we know about what occurred, the ostracism isn't deserved.

On the other hand, if your difficulties being in accepted in the black community played any role in your stance on the case, the ostracism is deserved. If any part of you was against Martin purely because being against him allowed you to be against the Black community, that has treated you so unfairly, the ostracism is deserved.

I think that is reasonable. My question is WHY are you questioning her motives? Why would you even suspect other motives then that she believes Zimmerman was innocent?

Her post states that she believes she is unfairly ostracized, so I stated my viewpoint on whether the ostracism is valid or not?

reply to post by Xtrozero


I love that guy!! I have already subscribed to him on Youtube and he brings up the very points that I mentioned in the OP.

He talks about the blind obedience that blacks have to the Democratic Party, especially to President Obama.
He talks about how educated blacks are accused of 'acting white'.
He talks about the silliness of the Trayvon riots...etc

Hi Butter Cookie, Thank you for sharing. We never know the positive impact we might have in sharing our lives in a positive way.

Growing up in Detroit was a great learning experience as a white kid. I decided, I would not let the legacy of hate continue that endless cycle of hating because.... "they hate so now I hate and now they hate because I hate. I now live in a diverse community, and work in a career with mostly blacks. It saddens me that there is much distrust. But I have also met many like-minded people black and white, I am beginning to have some real hope that we all will be color blind soon.

reply to post by dulce5cinco

Your people were stolen
Your women raped
Your houses burned
Your income lessened
Your men demonized
Your history erased and re-written
Your children murdered

FOR HUNDREDS of YEARS

These things have happened to all races, and have been done by all races.

But very few people alive in this day and age have ever had to experience this.

The big thing everyone who hates the subject aims to ignore is that the greatest threat to a black person is the U.S. is another black person.

I have known a great many excellent Black Americans, and the violence of ghetto communities is very sad. I think Trayvon acted the way he thought he should by attacking GZ, acting like a man, when Trayvon was doing exactly what he should not have been doing as a man.

It isn't right to attack someone because you think they might be following you. That is lesson number one.

I think this is what the op is getting at.

reply to post by poet1b


Well said, and yes. That is exactly my point!!

Negative, violent behavior should never be excused, no matter what color; in the Zimmerman case, blacks felt the need to excuse the assault by Trayvon, and this is a huge problem that is rarely addressed.

I cringed every time I heard, "He should have stayed in his car"...as if the young black male is an animal.

Sadly, lots of young black males have began to believe and behave like animals, and then are offended if this is said to them.

I shook my head tonight at the absurdity happening in various cities around the country in the name of 'Trayvon'..

Literally behaving like animals..The only difference is that the lions and such have enough common sense not to tear up the jungle.

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot

Originally posted by LizardSlicks

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot

Originally posted by CSpitta
reply to post by thesaneone

 

So, that's the ONLY way to attain a better life? Belittle the community from which you came, while BENEFITTING from the freedoms, they DIED FOR?

Seems to me you're scared of reality. How can something be past-tense, when the ramifications are in future-present.

You never existed, POOF!

Sorry to inform you. Probably before your time. I am not sure of the amounts who died from both races but it was not until whites who stood up for the blacks started dieing that civil rights for all were taken seriously. At that time blacks dieing did not count. Whites dieing did. That is something not really taught in Black History month. The idea was equal rights for all. Not for any special group. Something to think about.

Do you see what you just did! RIGHTS for blacks DIDN'T MATTER when JUST blacks were dying for it, no, it only BECAME IMPORTANT WHEN WHITES STARTED DYING too. Is there not a problem with that? So a handful of white people recognized the injustice and put themselves on the line for it, they were moral, strong people. Nobody cared when it was just a bunch of blacks dying. A few white people died for it and suddenly the whole thing changes, becomes relevant...I'm not sure what you meant with your post at all. You're either saying that black lives are not as valuable as white lives or that society at large doesn't care about what is happening to black people. Inequality or indifference is what I'm getting.

edit on 15-7-2013 by LizardSlicks because: clarify

A reasonable question based on a unreasonable lack of knowledge. To answer you. Yes, black lives did not matter. That is the essence of racism against blacks. White lives did matter then. I did not say that black lives DO NOT MATTER now but that did not back then. Why do you think there was a civil rights movement?It was not about different drinking fountains or bathrooms or sitting at the back of the bus. Black lives were not as valuable and society did not give a damm about them. Few people remember what real racism was about. Because not only blacks whose lives at that time no one cared about but whites whose lives WERE cared about were willing to die for those black lives power was shifted. I do find it funny that your post seems to imply I am saying it is that way today. It was the way it WAS not IS! People forget history.

What makes you so sure that these perceptions have really changed?

Originally posted by Hendrick99

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot

Originally posted by Kashai

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by ButterCookie


Its out of being a rational thinking person.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Because it makes no sense to consider that Zimmerman should have gotten out of his car.

He was running a neighborhood watch all he needed to do was call 911 and stay out of any effort to address
Travon Martin. Had he done what he was supposed to as a member of a neighborhood watch, this child would not be dead.

I WILL leave my car whenever I feel. It is NOT against the law. Zimmerman was found not guilty of breaking any law. ANYONE regardless of their beliefs who attemps to kill me or otherwise obstruct me when I am not breaking the law does so at their own peril. You WILL NOT take away my rights merely to satisfy your personal beliefs that a black man has the right to walk down a street but a Hispanic or white man does not. Are you trying to bring us back to the 50's with the roles reversed?


This makes this act at the very least manslaughter.

That is obvious

How is it manslaughter? Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman. Evidence and facts presented in court (by the prosecution mind you) proved that Trayvon was the aggressor and attacked GZ. Are you saying GZ "should have stayed in his truck" because Trayvon and others "like him" should be expected to behave like savages and attack you if you are near them or ask them what they are doing? This is the amazing part about your faction's argument- the fact that the problem somehow lies in GZ getting out of his truck. As if he should have known he was going to be attacked and should have accepted that fact. Your argument and stance makes me sick.

I am not saying anything about what he should have did. I am telling you that what he did leading up to the death, at the very least, qualifies for a manslaughter charge. Manslaughter is recklessly acting without reasonable caution and putting another person at risk of injury or death. Ignoring a 911 dispatcher, chasing someone around in the dark with a loaded gun, all because they look suspicious, is reckless behavior that puts both of them at risk.

Originally posted by Hendrick99
. Are you saying GZ "should have stayed in his truck" because Trayvon and others "like him" should be expected to behave like savages and attack you if you are near them or ask them what they are doing? This is the amazing part about your faction's argument- the fact that the problem somehow lies in GZ getting out of his truck. As if he should have known he was going to be attacked and should have accepted that fact. Your argument and stance makes me sick.

This is a great point....if people want to racially label then just say that young black males are too aggressive to engage with so stay in your car. Reminds me of the drive through safaris, Kids keep your hands and feet in the car...the wild animals may attack at anytime...

But in this case it is a black community...sad really that so many people feel that Zimmerman was wrong because he stepped out of his car into the wild animals....

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I love that guy!! I have already subscribed to him on Youtube and he brings up the very points that I mentioned in the OP.

He talks about the blind obedience that blacks have to the Democratic Party, especially to President Obama.
He talks about how educated blacks are accused of 'acting white'.
He talks about the silliness of the Trayvon riots...etc

I'll bet you a cup of coffee he is retired military....hehe

You mean besides you are delusional? Martin who was a MAN died because he was killing someone else. He was not a child no matter how much people want to label him such for political reasons. Like Obama calling Snowden a child. We really need to address what age people are responsible for their actions. There are 10 yr olds killing people in Africa as we speak. Until you get over this "child" bs I can not answer your questions.

So basically you are saying that a person instructed to not chase a person is not guilty. Because he decided to chase a person who was not engaged in any crime. Further, its ok to kill them without identifying yourself as a person concerned about there actions because they are concerned about what you are doing.

You are the one who is delusional and that is obvious.

Any thoughts?

I believe most of the intolerance in the world stems from misdirected pride. We all hear of Pride in Country, Pride in our history, and group mentality.

I don't have pride in my country, I do not have pride in our collective history, or the color of my skin (white) and I certainly don't have pride in sports teams, areas of my city etc.

For me, my pride has always come from and for my family and to those who share my life. To me, growing up and looking up to my mom and dad work so hard. Watching them struggle to pave a life for me and my brothers and sisters. The lessons learned, the love learned and overcoming those struggles. I grew up and hopefully passed the same towards my wife and kids, nephews, nieces, colleagues and friends along the way.

To the Thread Starter. I am glad you chose YOUR path. You have shown the ability to create your own destiny. You are creating your own legacy, and the lives you touch will forever be grateful for it. You are your own voice, not the voice of someone else. What you will pass down to your kids and those you touch, will make all the difference in the world. You are facing some struggles with it now, but you will always hold your head high.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by poet1b

 

Well said, and yes. That is exactly my point!!

Negative, violent behavior should never be excused, no matter what color; in the Zimmerman case, blacks felt the need to excuse the assault by Trayvon, and this is a huge problem that is rarely addressed.

I cringed every time I heard, "He should have stayed in his car"...as if the young black male is an animal.

Sadly, lots of young black males have began to believe and behave like animals, and then are offended if this is said to them.

I shook my head tonight at the absurdity happening in various cities around the country in the name of 'Trayvon'..

Literally behaving like animals..The only difference is that the lions and such have enough common sense not to tear up the jungle.

George being an adult and an authority figure who presumably was coached/trained on how to handle such situations as a neighborhood watchman, should have presented himself to Trayvon as such. I doubt little more than an explanation as to what they were respectively doing from both involved would have resulted in such a scenario. In my opinion George absolutely failed in his duties as neighborhood watchman by not following appropriate protocol which led to confusion/fear on both sides and a fight resulted, not an assault. George happened to be getting the worse of it, which by his injuries were nowhere near life threatening or indicative of a struggle for his life. He was ill equipped mentally and physically to be the figure of authority that he fancied himself, couldn't assess the situation and react appropriately, and because of this a teenager that did not have to die for any reason is dead.

And there are lots of idiots, criminals of opportunity that will use anything as an excuse to cause mayhem and destruction. This is not a phenomenon exclusive to young black males.

Originally posted by Hendrick99

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot

Originally posted by Kashai

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by ButterCookie


Its out of being a rational thinking person.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Because it makes no sense to consider that Zimmerman should have gotten out of his car.

He was running a neighborhood watch all he needed to do was call 911 and stay out of any effort to address
Travon Martin. Had he done what he was supposed to as a member of a neighborhood watch, this child would not be dead.

I WILL leave my car whenever I feel. It is NOT against the law. Zimmerman was found not guilty of breaking any law. ANYONE regardless of their beliefs who attemps to kill me or otherwise obstruct me when I am not breaking the law does so at their own peril. You WILL NOT take away my rights merely to satisfy your personal beliefs that a black man has the right to walk down a street but a Hispanic or white man does not. Are you trying to bring us back to the 50's with the roles reversed?


This makes this act at the very least manslaughter.

That is obvious

How is it manslaughter? Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman. Evidence and facts presented in court (by the prosecution mind you) proved that Trayvon was the aggressor and attacked GZ. Are you saying GZ "should have stayed in his truck" because Trayvon and others "like him" should be expected to behave like savages and attack you if you are near them or ask them what they are doing? This is the amazing part about your faction's argument- the fact that the problem somehow lies in GZ getting out of his truck. As if he should have known he was going to be attacked and should have accepted that fact. Your argument and stance makes me sick.

Sorry. Screwed up on the quote. My statement ended up in the middle.

News flash..... Everyone is different. Some people like being poor. Some people like being rich. Some people like being a racist and some don't Only thing that matters is that you know who are and what you stand for.

I may be a racist, but thats my business... STOP TRYING TO CHANGE.. AND JUST ACCEPT ME. (Pop)

reply to post by CSpitta

Now YOU know how vets feel when we see America becoming torn apart,you have no idea what we will do to protect her.

Yes under all circumstances we should kill anyone who we feel does not belong in neighborhood despite the fact they actually have every right to be their. A person who is responsible for making sure he knows who belongs in such a neighborhood.......


Should be freed because he killed a person who had ever right to be in that neighborhood
because he did not realize, that person actually was living in that neighborhood.

Sounds like a bunch of baloney to me.

Any thoughts?

It was Zimmerman who stalked, DAMN the laws.If someone scares me I can track them and kill them if they resist? Bulls##t. Laws are protecting the nastiest creatures who ever walked in human skin right now. Wrong is wrong skin be DAMNED this is NOT the issue here,We are trying to stop mindless revenge,we get enough from our forefathers reckless policies we need to at least stop it here.
If you want it that bad then GET HELP you have an inferiority complex.

These things have happened to all races, and have been done by all races.

But very few people alive in this day and age have ever had to experience this.

The big thing everyone who hates the subject aims to ignore is that the greatest threat to a black person is the U.S. is another black person.

I have known a great many excellent Black Americans, and the violence of ghetto communities is very sad. I think Trayvon acted the way he thought he should by attacking GZ, acting like a man, when Trayvon was doing exactly what he should not have been doing as a man.

It isn't right to attack someone because you think they might be following you. That is lesson number one.

I think this is what the op is getting at.

Note: should be in a quote box ,but didnt work for me.




The tragedy is that this is happening right now in Africa.....Negros killing Negros, or Dark skinned North Africans killing Negros.

Why arent "African Americans" marching in the streets about this, instead of keeping that chip on their shoulder?

Why arent "African Americans" up in arms, gathering an army to fight in Africa for the freedom of the Oppressed, and against the many Despot Dictators and Warlords, bleeding the people dry, because they may be from a different tribe.

Africans have done more death, destruction and damage Against other African people, than white people ever have!!!

Remember WW1 and WW2, White people the World over went to Europe to fight against, what they considered the "Enemy", for freedom of other white people.

I congratulate the OP......What the African race needs is more people like her...People who are colour blind and see Humans as humans.......i wish you all the success, which I am sure will be coming your way in the future.

Originally posted by LizardSlicks

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot

Originally posted by LizardSlicks

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot

Originally posted by CSpitta
reply to post by thesaneone

 

So, that's the ONLY way to attain a better life? Belittle the community from which you came, while BENEFITTING from the freedoms, they DIED FOR?

Seems to me you're scared of reality. How can something be past-tense, when the ramifications are in future-present.

You never existed, POOF!

Sorry to inform you. Probably before your time. I am not sure of the amounts who died from both races but it was not until whites who stood up for the blacks started dieing that civil rights for all were taken seriously. At that time blacks dieing did not count. Whites dieing did. That is something not really taught in Black History month. The idea was equal rights for all. Not for any special group. Something to think about.

Do you see what you just did! RIGHTS for blacks DIDN'T MATTER when JUST blacks were dying for it, no, it only BECAME IMPORTANT WHEN WHITES STARTED DYING too. Is there not a problem with that? So a handful of white people recognized the injustice and put themselves on the line for it, they were moral, strong people. Nobody cared when it was just a bunch of blacks dying. A few white people died for it and suddenly the whole thing changes, becomes relevant...I'm not sure what you meant with your post at all. You're either saying that black lives are not as valuable as white lives or that society at large doesn't care about what is happening to black people. Inequality or indifference is what I'm getting.

edit on 15-7-2013 by LizardSlicks because: clarify

A reasonable question based on a unreasonable lack of knowledge. To answer you. Yes, black lives did not matter. That is the essence of racism against blacks. White lives did matter then. I did not say that black lives DO NOT MATTER now but that did not back then. Why do you think there was a civil rights movement?It was not about different drinking fountains or bathrooms or sitting at the back of the bus. Black lives were not as valuable and society did not give a damm about them. Few people remember what real racism was about. Because not only blacks whose lives at that time no one cared about but whites whose lives WERE cared about were willing to die for those black lives power was shifted. I do find it funny that your post seems to imply I am saying it is that way today. It was the way it WAS not IS! People forget history.

What makes you so sure that these perceptions have really changed?

Because I was not talking about perceptions. I was talking about people being killed. I was there then. I am here now. I can see the difference. Let me see if I can put it simply. Back then no one would have heard about Martin or cared. No one would have cared about the black man dragged behind a car in Texas a few years ago. The New Black Panthers in Philadephia at the polling place would have died and no one would have cared. Does that explain it to you?

If you wish to talk about perceptions versus reality then it gets dangerous. It can become reality with bad consequence. A small example. I trained people one on one for NASA. Out of 6 black trainee's I had two who wanted to report me for racism. They were stopped by the other 4 blacks. I was near when they stopped one of them. His complaint was I was a racist because I insulted him, called him stupid and a idiot, made him look a fool asking him questions he could not answer. The man was told that if he wanted to report me for being an ahole no problem. Not for being a racist as I was not. I treated everyone that way and every trainee I ever had DID report me. lol. The man was told by his friends that IF he listened and learned he would do great. That every trainee I passed got advanced by their knowledge and praised me afterwards for what I had done to them. I only kicked two people off console. One a white male, one a hispanic female. Both for stupidity. These gentlemens perceptions of racism could have cost them their high paying jobs. My job was to ensure that my trainee's were RIGHT in all of their decisions. Their feelings did not matter. Nor their perceptions. In the job we had there were 3 engineers whose job it was to prove our decisions made in seconds were wrong and they had two weeks to do it in.

Originally posted by Kashai

You mean besides you are delusional? Martin who was a MAN died because he was killing someone else. He was not a child no matter how much people want to label him such for political reasons. Like Obama calling Snowden a child. We really need to address what age people are responsible for their actions. There are 10 yr olds killing people in Africa as we speak. Until you get over this "child" bs I can not answer your questions.

So basically you are saying that a person instructed to not chase a person is not guilty. Because he decided to chase a person who was not engaged in any crime. Further, its ok to kill them without identifying yourself as a person concerned about there actions because they are concerned about what you are doing.

You are the one who is delusional and that is obvious.

First Zimmerman was not instructed to not get out of his car. Second that person had as much authority as you to tell me not to get out of my car and you would not like my response to that. Third no one was chased. Fourth I have no problem with killing anyone who attacks me. Next question?

Any thoughts?