It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Will Americans Stand Up If The DOJ Goes After George Zimmerman

page: 10
19
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 11:16 AM
link   
How can the DOJ legally go after Zimmerman? Isn't that double jeopardy????



The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides, "No person shall … be subject for the same offence [sic] to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb." This provision, known as the Double Jeopardy Clause, prohibits state and federal governments from prosecuting individuals for the same crime on more than one occasion, or imposing more than one punishment for a single offense. Each of the 50 states offers similar protection through its own constitution, statutes, and Common Law.

edit on 15-7-2013 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 11:21 AM
link   
reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 


Everyone is playing into this just like they wanted us all to

The president doesn't vocally say every black boy that gets shot by a white man looks "just like my son if i had one". They don't televise and spend all day on the news on all these cases.This is a setup some people on here figured that out and they are right.

if we all back off it they will be disappointed.We all have our differing opinions but I an not going to express mine any longer.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 11:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

If the dates are as you say - they are not, by the way - then he would be 18 and 3 weeks. Not 3 weeks shy of his 18th birthday.


I'm glad you agree.
See, consensus is possible.


Mike


Agree with what? You said he was 3 weeks shy of his 18th birthday, and then gave dates that would mean he was 3 weeks older than 18. And you got the dates wrong by a year - he was 17 and 3 weeks.

It's a small detail, but given how you've reprimanded others for perceived errors, I would have thought you'd want to get it right.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 11:28 AM
link   
Wrabbit2000:

#4. We have no clue whatsoever who started the fight or who even had intent.

Wrong. The trial showed through, ironically enough, the Prosecutions own "star witness" that Trayvon had a problem with the "creepy ass cracker" and he was helpful enough to talk about it with the witness who then testified to the events and conversation. So we know Martin returned to seek out Zimmerman and initiate a confrontation. So said he to his Girl.


I believe you are being quite disingenuous here, Wrabbit. You are of course, referring to Jeantel, whom Martin was speaking to on the phone at the time of the incident. She certainly isn't a good witness for the prosecution as the defence successfully exposed inconsistencies and contradictions in her statements, both aural and written. Jeantel, is probably the reason why the prosecution failed in this trial.

When Martin stated he was having a problem with a 'creepy ass-cracker', he was walking away from Zimmerman, whilst Zimmerman maintained following him. There is a recording of Zimmerman's calls to the police:


We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy.
We can impute from this statement how zealous Zimmerman took his role as a security guard for the housing estate, and the self-affirming assertion he was onto someone suspicious.


This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something.
From this statement Zimmerman is clearly making a profile conjecture, not of race, but of culture, drug culture to be precise.


These assholes, they always get away!
Here, Zimmerman is displaying both belligerence and indignation, both of which are confrontational emotions. Also, it once again imputes Zimmerman's zeal for wanting to deal with the intruder.

Cases can be made for both Zimmerman and Martin for each to be the instigator of the initial confrontation. However, going off the evidence of Zimmerman's own voice statements to the Dispatcher, I would suggest it was Zimmerman whom initiated it. He wasn't going to allow this particular suspect to get away with anything. Yet, even after the initial confrontational words exchanged between them, it is possible that Martin - now feeling harassed and abused by Zimmerman - attacked him from behind as Zimmerman was walking away, which I suggest is probably likely? We only have Zimmerman's testimony and injuries to corroborate this, there is no witness to the start of the physical fracas.

When giving an opinion on this case, it is best to do so as an 'advocate' with no agenda.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 12:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by GrantedBail
I swear to gawd this is the last comment I will make on this subject.

Here is what I think about you Zimmerman groupies:

From the get, you staked out your positions. Then your hate radio, blogs, websites, added fuel to your fires.

Any derogatory information that came out about Zimmerman was dismissed out of hand.

It was all about the "liberal media", the NAACP, Jesse Jackson and all that crap. These are people and institutions you despised even before this event.

You have been played like a fiddle. You are too ignorant to realize it. They are distracting you with some bs while Rome burns.

There is too much fluoride in your water. Get a freakin filter.






I swear to gawd this is the last comment I will make on this subject.


good.




Here is what I think about you Zimmerman groupies: From the get, you staked out your positions.


Here is what I think about you Martin groupies: first and formost Martin groupies ie NBC, CNN Edited the ne 911 call making it sound as if he said something he didn't and Played it back to the whole nation, on national TV something the GZ supports never did.
talking about stacked!




Then your hate radio, blogwebsites, added fuel to your fires


well your racist hate radio, blogwebsites, added fuel to your fires as well. talk about he pot calling the kettle black.( no pun intended)



Any derogatory information that came out about Zimmerman was dismissed out of hand.


also any derogatory information that came out about Martin was dismissed out of hand. such as, he liked to fight and bust people in the nose. the text messages from he phone show this. his love for drugs, and guns also were on his phone.




It was all about the "liberal media", the NAACP, Jesse Jackson and all that crap. These are people and institutions you despised even before this event.


damn right when a national television network edits a tape and makes it say something it doesn't, and people, organizations, that make a living off of their races' / people past, continually going on about what has happened in the past, and about how wrong they are treated now. which by the way is nothing that just about any and all races and or a nationalities, have gone through at some point in time. deserve to be despised.

first thing they did was cry racist, hell GZ has black blood in his family from his mother side.




You have been played like a fiddle. You are too ignorant to realize it. They are distracting you with some bs while Rome burns.


Martin supporters need to wake and realize the same. the martins lawyer, the media, all sharpton (jesse jackson my name agitation my game) naacp and yes bloggers and people that are Martin supporters. were the ones doing the fiddle playing.they were the ones calling the dance and now that the dance is done, and it didn;t go the way they wanted they're crying the blues.




There is too much fluoride in your water. Get a freakin filter.


i'd rather drink fluoride than sallow b.s.












edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 12:33 PM
link   
well from now on i will respond to members that address the Questions in the op.
then come back and continue in the arguments.

i might even start a new thread.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 12:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Taissa

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie


I don't agree with the verdict at all! But I'm against the DOJ going after Zimmerman, or continuing to investigate. The case is over, the jury made their decision. As much as I'd love to see Zimmerman behind bars, it's wrong for the DOJ to overstep, and I would not want them to have this power over any of us.

If we let DOJ get away with this, imagine what else they will do.


spoken like a true United States Citizen, this is the kind of logic i like to see.
even though it didn't turn out like you think it should, you do not want the Government to step on our rights.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 12:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 

Everyone is playing into this just like they wanted us all to


Thats the most intriguing part about all of this to me, is the social manipulation that is happening. The case itself is rather mundane, imo. However, "they" are completely blatant about what they are doing. Although its not stated, it is glaringly clear to anyone who takes one look at how involved the government is in defiling our court systems by directly appealing to emotion. I dont think too many people believe that the government is truly interested in justice, but they go right along with it because it appeals to a random preconceived bias. The most interesting divide I have seen is between men and women on this case. Even though race has been a strong factor as far as the media goes, the strongest divide seems to be between the sexes (at least in my personal experience). Its all very, very interesting.

Would people stand up? No, I dont think so, for various reasons. Everything from fear of being called a racist to all of a sudden being forced to confront people who are dealing solely with their emotions. Its a tough situation in that regard.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 12:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by NellahB
DOJ ... I'm going to laugh! They need to investigate themselves! What about double jeopardy? Can't charge someone twice for the same crime. Hey, Holder, you're next! Your part in fast n furious warrants you jail time!


well they sorta did, remember holder investigated himself in the IRS deal.
this would be not be the state, this would be federal, i don't think double jeopardy applies.

that being said, the FBI did investigate, and it has been said that they found that he was not a racist and that they found no reason to think he profiled TM. if the had after the involement of obama and holder i think the Government would have pursued Federal Civil Right Violation then.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 12:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie



I think that the govt should just leave George Zipperhead to the rest of us. No sweat. This thing could be sorted out by lunch, and it wouldn't cost the taxpayers anything.


well your entitled to your options, and after you and yours take care of your business, maybe they could leave you and yours to us and we could have it settled by supper time. and they could save even more.
edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 01:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by elysiumfire
In responding to the OP's questions...

Is it not True the FBI found that there was no racial bias or profiling by Zimmerman?


Not quite accurate. It is probable that Zimmerman did not racially profile Martin, but he did profile him as a potential crime suspect. Even if Zimmerman is the most racially prejudiced person on the planet, his prejudice would have no basis on the case. There is no evidence that Zimmerman was waiting for a black person to come into the estate so he could harass him, he was acting as the 'eyes' and 'ears' of the neighboured, and it would not have mattered what colour the person was whom aroused his suspicions. Zimmerman was very zealous of his position as the neighboured watch.


If The DOJ does pursue (human rights) type charges, will Americans rise up and raise hell like the Martin supporters?


This is not a question to ask. Again, this case was not about 'human rights'. This case is quite simple really. It's about the ambitious and zealous activity of a neighboured watch security guard acting like he had the powers of a cop. He approached a young man he was suspicious of (even though advised not 'to follow' the suspect) and got into a scuffle and fist fight and from the evidence of his injuries, looked to have been losing the physical confrontation, at some point during the physical confrontation Zimmerman's gun was fired into the chest of Martin at close range. It is not a human rights issue.

We only have Zimmerman's statements and the physical evidence of injuries, scrapes and scuffs to go on. Zimmerman has to account for how the gun came to be released from its holster. He stated that Martin made a grab for the weapon, but that he (Zimmerman) got to it first and fired a single shot. We have a second witness whom stated that he saw a black person sat on top of someone and was pummelling them.

So, the trial rests entirely upon how and why the gun was freed from its holster. The physical evidence of Zimmerman's injuries, and the 2nd witness statements seem to corroborate Zimmerman's account. If Zimmerman had followed the 'expert' advice of the Dispatcher, he would not have set in motion events that led to the trial. We have to take Zimmerman's statement that Martin grabbed for the gun at face value, as Martin himself cannot give his account.

It doesn't matter what alternative scenario we can all think up, the trial has to go on the evidence. Zimmerman was unprofessional in ignoring the Dispatcher's advice, after that, only the physical evidence of injuries and the 2nd witness statements matter. The prosecution could never prove that Zimmerman simply withdrew his weapon and fired because Martin was pummelling him and made no attempt to grab for the gun, which if proven, would have put a different slant on the trial, and Zimmerman would be facing and possibly convicted on a manslaughter charge.

I don't doubt that for many people the verdict sticks in the gullet and is extremely disappointing, but the lack of evidence to support any of Martin's actions, or to support any harassment or racial prejudice claims, really made the trial moot. I'm ready to be convinced if there is an elsewise argument or evidence I have missed.


first if there had been any violation of Criminal Civil Rights Violations, whether racial or profiling him as a criminal when the FBI investigated they would have charged him. that's why they investigated, they wanted to see if he did any thing that violated Federal law.

and as far the rest of your blah blah blah, it is the right question, oh and by the way i don't appreciate your adding your own words when quoting me.

if the Federal Government is allowed to go after some one after being found innocent in a state trial, which occurred after the Federal Government did it's own investigation, we might as well just let people be arrested go go straight to jail with out a trial.


edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 01:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by xyankee
Has anyone noticed that the people who do not accept the verdict or believe the way this bad situation took place or that it was not self defense are the exact same people who are the first to call some of us Birthers and disregard the fact that our Piece of Sh** living in the white house is constitutionally qualified. Is there a connection mentally that hard FACTS just don't register mentally with these people?


i think you hit the nail on the head, i often wonder what has happened to this country in the past 30yrs. what did the generation that came after the baby boomers teach their kids.

i could go on about this, but you know all the name calling would start. and i don't want to get into a p-----g match right now.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 01:21 PM
link   
reply to post by Serdgiam
 


They have somehow engaged all of our sensibilities here I feel strongly also for several reasons. We who are thinking should drop it. we are being manipulated as you say. That is plain and clear. people need to get the strength to just stop playing in their games.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 01:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 


Everyone is playing into this just like they wanted us all to

The president doesn't vocally say every black boy that gets shot by a white man looks "just like my son if i had one". They don't televise and spend all day on the news on all these cases.This is a setup some people on here figured that out and they are right.

if we all back off it they will be disappointed.We all have our differing opinions but I an not going to express mine any longer.


well i have said in many threads that obama statement, was a play at other motives.
my main thoughts was at another gun grab.

and when he was talking about the out come the other day, he mentioned gun violence. don't be surprised if they don't come out with a bill called " trayvon law".
edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 01:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie



I think that the govt should just leave George Zipperhead to the rest of us. No sweat. This thing could be sorted out by lunch, and it wouldn't cost the taxpayers anything.


well your entitled to your options, and after you and yours take care of your business, maybe they could leave you and yours to us and we could have it settled by supper time. and they could save even more.
edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)


Its funny people like that moan Zimmerman took the law into his own hands....And they want to do the same...

Hypocracy much?



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 01:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie



.


well your entitled to your options, and after you and yours take care of your business, maybe they could leave you and yours to us and we could have it settled by supper time. and they could save even more.
edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)


Its funny people like that moan Zimmerman took the law into his own hands....And they want to do the same...

Hypocracy much?


yea i just can't understand them, they want it there way and only there way.
never mind what the law states.
edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 01:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by Serdgiam
 


They have somehow engaged all of our sensibilities here I feel strongly also for several reasons. We who are thinking should drop it. we are being manipulated as you say. That is plain and clear. people need to get the strength to just stop playing in their games.


I agree. I dont think that the goal here is "just" to divide. That is done easily enough through typical political rivalries that carry down through the population.

It seems the manipulation is trying to be extended to every subset of the population, at least to as many as possible. I can only think that the goal here is to cause some sort of crisis, where the "solution" will then be given as the only way out. I think there are a few options in this regard, but just like in The Outer Limits show intro, they control the horizontal and vertical. They are getting the response they want from those directly involved (either "for" or "against" any given topic) and also through those who are apathetic.

While I feel it is not for the greater good, by any means, it is all so incredibly interesting how it can even work in the first place.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 01:49 PM
link   
well i just saw on the news that the DOJ said they were going to investigate what a load of crap.
playing up to the race baiter's just to act like the are looking out for the black amercains or people of color.

Shame on you holder! Shame on you obama!
edit on 15-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 02:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
well i just saw on the news that the DOJ said they were going to investigate what a load of crap.
playing up to the race baiter's just to act like the are looking out for the black amercains or people of color.

Shame on you holder! Shane on you obama!


I'm sorry, but I don't like your approach to debate at all.

You seem to think that no one can have an opinion opposite to you and still be a rational person, yet you seem extremely unstable yourself. So outraged over something that has not impacted your life in anyway. This is why people are saying you are being played. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SIDE YOU ARE ON.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 02:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by muse7
I'll stand with the government and support them 100% ... the jurors might have found Zimmerman not guilty. But that doesn't mean he's not responsible for the death of an unarmed kid.


Zimmerman [color=gold] chased down this Kid and the Kid fought back and Zimmerman shot him.

Who threw the first punch? Likely the Kid...but I don't blame him for that.



Pure fabrication.


Zimmerman chased down Trayvon. Otherwise why would he provide multiple different accounts of how he and Trayvon came face to face?...and that is pure fact.

Now, did Trayvon throw the first punch? We will never know, but zimmerman pursued him despite being told not to, and to believe he ceased his pursuit and Trayvon who had been running from him the entire time..."jumped" him? With Zimmerman giving different accounts of how that happened? Zimmerman caught him, Trayvon fought....Zimmerman realized he was not superman and panicked and shot the 17 year old boy.

You can argue, troll, whatever...but anyone with a brain knows what happened. Did the prosecution prove it "beyond a doubt"...no...but Zimmerman is as guilty as OJ...our legal system is not perfect.



new topics

top topics



 
19
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join