I'm an atheist and will trust God.

Yes, I am an atheist. I do not believe for a moment that there is an omnipotent, omnipresent being that gives two licks about any of us. I don't believe there is one that doesn't care either. I've concluded that there are too many holes in all the religious beliefs to hold any water when it comes to the existence of a god. However, I also believe that our spirit lives on for an eternity, conscious and aware of who we are and experiencing an infinite number of various experiences...because we can. I simply don't believe we are watched over by a god and believe that the premise that drives a belief in a god should also lead us to believe there is no need for a god.

Let's just take one example. When religious people are asked who created god, the answer is usually "He's self-existent." My reply as always is "Well, if a being such as your god can be self-existent, needing no creator because he has always existed, then why can't that apply to us?" And I would have to continue to ask, why can no one believe that we, ourselves, are self-existent through all eternity, having an indestructible spirit? Why is such a feat exclusive only to a deity? Where did the idea come from that we have no capabilities of our own except to live, suffer and die on this planet?

But, as certain as I am about my belief, I also believe that I could be wrong. And this is where my "faith" comes in. If I'm wrong and there is in fact a Supreme Being, I feel completely safe and secure in the knowledge that such a being will most likely be benevolent, eternally forgiving and will consider the opinions of a non-believer as inconsequential in his or her or it's grand scheme or plan. Because of that, I do not for a moment believe that this being would damn any one of us to eternal torment simply because we did not worship it. That would make even less sense than all the religious superstition lumped together. So, ultimately, maybe it really doesn't matter what any of us believe on this...?

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Question me an answer. I have written this post on ATS to you at 11:03 CST. If you go on vacation, can you read the post a week later? Month? Year? How many times can you recall saved information? Is time a factor of you experiencing this post as it is written or any time you recall the information? I am the creator of the text, yet you will collapse its wave function from the server when you need it. Does this change the fact that it is there. Is the moon there if no one is there to observe it? Is my post here, even if no one is observing it from the hard drive?

If you understand how a role playing game works, there are two modes. Free play and story mode. For us, our reality is on story mode. This does not change the fact that you are free to make choices in the game. It also does not change the levels of the game you must pass. When did the programmer make the game? For you, which timeline is the one that preexists the one you think you are playing the game from? God has always existed to your perspective because you have only existed from the timeline he gave you to use. His timeline does not need to be yours for him to preexist yours. You are collapsing the wave function of indeterminate reality within the parameters of God's hologram. Did God state that we are in a holographic image of Time, Space, Matter and Energy?

Genesis 1

In the Beginning (TIME), God created the Heaves (SPACE) and the Earth (MATTER). FIAT LUX! Let there be light (ENERGY).

Did God state that this was an image?

Genesis 1:27

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

What did he say it was constructed from:

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it

WORD is information and science now confirms that energy is information. How do you make a hologram. You take a 3D Voxel / Particle and shine a light on it. VOXEL THREAD... A Voxel is a volumetric picture element and particles are this very thing. Light is both particle and wave and the copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics states that consciousness collapses the wave function to make the particle from consciousness. Just like the computer projects the image to the user, you are the user in the story God is telling. Did God mention quantum mechanics:

Hebrews 11

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

You can't collapse wave function to determine the states of matter unless you have the faith you can do it. Choice is faith from what is seen, but Faith in God is what you do not see.

How about quantum entanglement?

Matthew 18

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Look in a mirror. Do you see you or do you see your image? If we are in an image, where is the Child of God mentioned above? The Child is the image and the Angel facing the Father in haven is your true self. Have you seen the Matrix?

Entanglement continued:

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[f] loosed in heaven.

19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

Are you sure you can't see truth: Here is direct evidence for Christ straight from the Hebrew language. Can this be an accident? The Jews do not believe in Christ, yet this is your best evidence of all they are blind to their messiah. What I have shown you here should open your eyes to the truth. God is the beginning, middle and end of all existence. We are the fish in the water. Some of us are here to fish the others out with truth.

You can't deny your father and mother in this. We are all offspring of a God that defies our explanation of Him. God is evident because the Bible continues to rise about our contradiction and paradox. This is how axioms work. The highest is the one that I just outlined.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Thanks for your reply. None of that holds water. I've read, studied, was a Christian for decades, taught Bible studies and was convinced that Jesus, God, and the devil were real. I no longer believe any of it and for extremely good reasons, only one of which I posted in my OP. I don't want to get in to the truth or falsity of Jesus or god. That wasn't my purpose. My only purpose here was to say that if there is a Supreme Being then it will not care what I believe and I will certainly not be punished for it. If such Supreme Being does care about my beliefs, then that would mean we're dealing with a less-than-Supreme being who is basically a sociopath who hates rejection and is an attention-whore.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


The problem is that if we have an absolute belief in God and complete understanding of all things we would not be able to grow as soul during our human experience. It doesn't matter what you believe. All of us are here to learn about ourselves and the world surrounding us.

"Nature herself has imprinted upon the minds of all the idea of God." - Cicero

reply to post by Visiting ESB


You don't need to believe in a supreme being to believe in the creator. The creators only interest is that creation and life become abundant and spread throughout the world and the universe.

Very simply put, in really simple terms, god was the creator and gave mankind the freedom of will, the devil or satan as you might call him did not feel as if he had free will. He wanted free will. But also despised man for having it and wished to put an end to it.

The really simple answer is that man does have free will, wether you choose to use it in a way that multiplies creation or wish to limit creation ( opposite of creation is destruction) is up to you.

There is a really is a simple difference between good and evil. Good is to practice your free will while not inhibiting or the practice of free will upon other mankind. The opposite however is using your own free will to inhibit, limit or block therefore taking away another living persons free will.

Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

The problem is that if we have an absolute belief in God and complete understanding of all things we would not be able to grow as soul during our human experience. It doesn't matter what you believe. All of us are here tolerant about ourselves and the world surrounding us.

"Nature herself has imprinted upon the minds of all the idea of God." - Cicero

That's what I'm trying to say: it doesn't matter what we believe. We won't be punished for it.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


I agree with you. It doesn't matter what we believe. God is forgiving, and any just God would not punish someone for their beliefs.

I have to disagree, however, on the importance of the question. If we suppose God is a self-existing omnipotent entity, what would He do with all His eons of boredom? My answer is to create a successor. A Son in His Own Image.

In my opinion, this both solves and proves the paradox of self-existence. God as an entity could have always existed. But the God who created man could exist in cycles. God the Father, who creates the Son, who grows up to be Father and creates a Son. The cycle could go on ad infinitum and all that it would take to set in motion is for there to be something instead of nothing. Humankind's evolution, especially if you consider our souls immortal, might inevitably lead to the creation of One who is Above All Others. The one being that no other being in all creation does not love and does not worship. Maybe this being has learned so much over the course of its existence that it is elevated through sheer accomplishment and respect. I believe it more likely to be a combination of said experience mixed with a natural desire to have a blood heir.

Alternatively, consider this. Humans develop a way to transfer their minds into a computer system. In this virtual world, time exists relatively not to the universe or the matter of which the system is created, but by the consciousness experiencing life inside. In this way, a human lifespan of 70+ years could pass in a matter of seconds. Nobody likes to be alone, so a shared reality is created in which you can interact with other consciousnesses in the virtual experience. Who sets the rules to such a reality? Possibly limited by the capability of the hardware, more likely, it will be a specific set of restraints set by a creator. Gravity, time, friction. All of these forces are simple programs inside a virtual reality which we created ourselves. What happens if forget we're in a simulation and then create another simulation within the simulation? We have recursion, again, ad infinitum. (That is, until you overload the system and crash. Then you must reboot. But what if your computer was the size of the entire universe?)

These are just theories on how "God" can be both created and self existent. Why not humans too?

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Just live your life and go by the "golden rule" you can't go wrong. even Jesus taught this very easy rule

reply to post by Visiting ESB

At least you've grasped the point that faith is not the same thing as belief, which confuses many.
It will be interesting to see where this takes you.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


I could have written your post myself. I totally understand what you mean. I consider myself an atheist, and I don't use the word "God" to describe what you are talking about (to avoid confusion) but if there is a consciousness behind a single point of origin of the universe, it is not malevolent in any way.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
And I would have to continue to ask, why can no one believe that we, ourselves, are self-existent through all eternity, having an indestructible spirit? Why is such a feat exclusive only to a deity? Where did the idea come from that we have no capabilities of our own except to live, suffer and die on this planet?

I have asked this myself, many times. And the reason (I think) is religion. To control a group, there has to be a single point of authority that is "above" the minions that are to be controlled. We must be portrayed as "sinners", unworthy at birth of life, so we will strive our whole lives to pay and repay for our sins, by groveling to the authority for our salvation.

reply to post by Visiting ESB

If I'm wrong and there is in fact a Supreme Being, I feel completely safe and secure in the knowledge that such a being will most likely be benevolent, eternally forgiving

Just for the fun of it I will not question the existence of a god, but rather I will question whether he is benevolent or malevolent. For the moment I will make myself into an utterly benevolent god. In my mind I am going to create a universe by allowing sweet-smelling gases to fill a void. The gases will form galaxies, suns, and planets as gently as an innocent child waking from a restful sleep.

On earth there is nothing but lovely meadows and happy people. The people won't need to eat living things; they will get their nutrition from the air they breathe. I will make their minds peaceful and loving, for as a benevolent god I don't even know the meaning of 'bad'.



Now let's take a look at reality. The universe BLASTED into existence and smells like rotting meat and gun powder. Galaxies are zooming off into unknown, but certain destruction. Whole solar systems are totally fried when their suns collapse and explode. On earth, violent storms and virulent diseases kill people by the millions. People are angry, selfish, and war-like, and all living things need to kill and eat other living things. This creation is from the mind of a god that knows violence and hatred and cruelty.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB

Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

The problem is that if we have an absolute belief in God and complete understanding of all things we would not be able to grow as soul during our human experience. It doesn't matter what you believe. All of us are here tolerant about ourselves and the world surrounding us.

"Nature herself has imprinted upon the minds of all the idea of God." - Cicero

That's what I'm trying to say: it doesn't matter what we believe. We won't be punished for it.

YES !!Congrads ....You have been cured of religion-religion by the benevolent being.It isn't God you no longer believe in ...it is you no longer believe in the doctrines of religion that was God to you just as it is to billions.

I am always amazed how the religious mind can't see how their doctrines of men don't harmonize with God at all.Hell being the most blasphemous of them all.It defies logic.

You are absolutely right it matters not one bit what anyone believes..belief(which is faith ... same core definition one is a noun the other a verb) is not knowing.Belief is only the gate it is not the pasture on the other side of the gate.There's narrow gates and wide gates.You just walked through the narrow gate. Even though it sounds like you are just standing there staring into the sky with you eyes closed the gates are behind.

religion(belief ...faith) is NOT knowing God.Grace is "through faith".Grace is the path ...faith is the gate .The many are called (the religious) start on the wide path (religion) and end up at the wide gate of destruction but don't yet enter the gate to the narrow path which leads to the narrow gate that leads INTO the pasture!!

Everyones narrow path is different.The narrow gate all leads to the same pasture though.It is true all religions lead to the same place ....the wide gate to NOWHERE.

It is absolute foolishness to think God is needs man to do anything.God is 100% in control of everything.The next big hurdle in the pasture is a quantum leap.But you don't have to jump over it.God is going to throw you over it!!Just like he shuffled your religious feet down that wide path to destroy you and your believing religious mind.

Existence is nothing like what anyone thinks it is.Especially the religious.If there was a Matrix(and ..there is) they are fast asleep dreaming of walking down streets of gold to heaven when it's roads of dung to the wide gate to Nowhere.All in Gods mercy for the trip.The good thing is everyone makes it to the narrow path and narrow gate into the pasture eventually if not in this age the next or the following.

AND THAT...is all there is to know.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
Yes, I am an atheist. I do not believe for a moment that there is an omnipotent, omnipresent being that gives two licks about any of us. I don't believe there is one that doesn't care either. I've concluded that there are too many holes in all the religious beliefs to hold any water when it comes to the existence of a god. However, I also believe that our spirit lives on for an eternity, conscious and aware of who we are and experiencing an infinite number of various experiences...because we can. I simply don't believe we are watched over by a god and believe that the premise that drives a belief in a god should also lead us to believe there is no need for a god.

Let's just take one example. When religious people are asked who created god, the answer is usually "He's self-existent." My reply as always is "Well, if a being such as your god can be self-existent, needing no creator because he has always existed, then why can't that apply to us?" And I would have to continue to ask, why can no one believe that we, ourselves, are self-existent through all eternity, having an indestructible spirit? Why is such a feat exclusive only to a deity? Where did the idea come from that we have no capabilities of our own except to live, suffer and die on this planet?

But, as certain as I am about my belief, I also believe that I could be wrong. And this is where my "faith" comes in. If I'm wrong and there is in fact a Supreme Being, I feel completely safe and secure in the knowledge that such a being will most likely be benevolent, eternally forgiving and will consider the opinions of a non-believer as inconsequential in his or her or it's grand scheme or plan. Because of that, I do not for a moment believe that this being would damn any one of us to eternal torment simply because we did not worship it. That would make even less sense than all the religious superstition lumped together. So, ultimately, maybe it really doesn't matter what any of us believe on this...?

If we are a non created evolved organism at what point did we get a spirit and if we have a spirit how can you prove that?

Originally posted by Visiting ESB

Originally posted by Metallicus
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

The problem is that if we have an absolute belief in God and complete understanding of all things we would not be able to grow as soul during our human experience. It doesn't matter what you believe. All of us are here tolerant about ourselves and the world surrounding us.

"Nature herself has imprinted upon the minds of all the idea of God." - Cicero

That's what I'm trying to say: it doesn't matter what we believe. We won't be punished for it.

When it comes down to it, all will be judged according to their works, not their beliefs. There will still be the accountability for sin, which will not go unpunished, which is different from mere belief. As a believer, I am saved by my faith, but my faith should still produce good works. When you are standing before God at the time of judgement, your beliefs about God and how you think the universe and the supernatural should work will be irrelevant, because you will see God with your own eyes.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Well I do, believe there is a Supreme Being, Creator,
God with whom at one time, we had a
relationship. We were warned of the consequence
of sin. It's DEATH. This is the law of the universe.
God doesn't make anything to be punished or even
to die. And he's been trying to save us ever since
we blew it.. So Christ decided to pay are way,.to
redeem us. And if you don't have the brains, the soul
or mind or whatever you want to call it, to see how much
sense it makes. Then you're already dead. But
I believe most atheists do get what they want in the
end any way.There consumed in the fire. But not
tormented forever and ever. Their existence ends.
But not before they get to see what a rotten stupid
choice they made.

Aren't you glad you weren't muslim ?